PG Music Home Forums General Discussion Beginners Forum Multitrack recording

BIAB 2017
I saved a backing track with bass and drum.
Now (I do not know if it can be done) I would like to add 3 more audio tracks 1) singer 2) piano 3) trumpet recorded separately listening on the headphones the tracks already recorded.
A multitrack recording.

I would already be happy to record not the 3 tracks simultaneously but to record singer, piano and trumpet separately: the important thing is to be able to send each audio track on a different channel.

It this possible?

BIAB has one audio track.

But RealBand, provided free with BIAB, can do this. So can any DAW (digital audio workstation, a software program such as Reaper, Mixcraft etc.).

Matt is correct and he's telling you the preferred and best method. But, while BIAB has only one audio track, it can be used multiple times. If for some reason you wanted specifically to complete your recording from within the BIAB program, you can.... Multi track audio recording is possible using only BIAB! You are not even limited to the 7 tracks that are not audio tracks...
15 or more tracks are easily captured.

casak, in your specific example, for conversation, let's assume you have some musician friends over and it is a once in a lifetime opportunity to record all of you together. We'll assume in this conversation you know nothing about using RealBand, or you use a Mac and don't have RB. Let's assume you have no access to any other DAW. BIAB is all that is available and you want to record the setup you describe above in your question. As long as you have the ability to get the audio into Biab, it is possible. For instance, you are using BIAB RealTracks for Bass and Drums and you have a mic into your audio interface and Biab is configured to access the interface. You are good to go. You have used two tracks and still have the audio track and piano, guitar, strings, melody and soloist tracks available for recording. All of these tracks can accept audio.

The process is simple.

Record your first instrument or vocal onto the audio track.

From the audio menu, make the audio track a Performance track and move it to an available track.

Record your second and third audio tracks repeating the above process.

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Once you are finished recording, your mixer tracks would look similar to the following:

(Bass Track) RT Bass
(Piano Track) Performance track Piano
(Drums Track) RT Drums
(Guitar Track) Performance track Trumpet
(Strings Track ) Performance track Singer
Melody
Soloist
Audio

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That's really creative, Charlie. I've never attempted that because I just use a DAW to do multitrack recording.

While Charlie's method works, the best bet for recording multiple tracks is to use a multi-track recording app (such as Realband).

Quote from my post: "Matt is correct and he's telling you the preferred and best method."

I certainly don't disagree with you John. I was answering the question asked in the original post that indicated to me, was asking if it were possible to make a multitrack recording in BIAB. It is.

I speculate that most users are the same as casak and Matt and don't consider that Biab is even capable of multitrack recording. Other options are readily available and no consideration is given to Biab because it's unnecessary when there are so many DAWs and multitracks out there.

Biab is a more than capable multitrack recorder but it is not a DAW. All DAWs are multitrack recorders but not all multitrack recorders are DAWs. Or, at least, not fully featured DAWs.

The best way to evaluate Biab as a multitrack recorder is to compare it with other basic multitrack recorders such as the Tascam DP-006, DP-008, Zoom H4n, H2n type units rather than a comparison with a DAW.

Thank you guys. I will try Chrlie's method to move audio track on another BIAB track. But I also have Realband in my package and I have installed Realband on my PC (Win 10). Is it possible with Realband to make a multitrack recording easier? What should I do? I do not know Realband very much. I have always and only used BIAB so far.

There are many benefits to using RealBand for multitrack recording rather than Biab. This was a discussion more of theory than practical application. RealBand is designed for multitrack recording as a primary purpose and Biab is not. It is much more visual and has easy access to multitrack and mixing features that are more cumbersome in Biab. With RealBand, you have 48 tracks available before you have to move audio. A huge advantage with RealBand is the multi riff feature and also you can regenerate just a portion of a track rather than the complete track regenerating. So if you have a track where you are satisfied with everything except a small portion, you can fix just the part you're not satisfied with. It is easy to cut and paste audio in RealBand. It is easy to automate volume and panning in RealBand. If you have an audio interface that has multiple inputs, you can record multiple tracks at once with RealBand. RealBand shares a lot of integration with Biab and it is a DAW. It is the best of both worlds.

I grew up using Reel to Reel tape decks, Cassette Portastudios that had 2,4, or 8 tracks. My familiarity and experience make it easy for me to maneuver and apply old school techniques that are not needed when you work in a DAW environment. I enjoy working with the old school techniques and the challenges a limited count of tracks provides. It's not something that most would find as enjoyable as I do.

If you are doing a serious project, the project is the main objective so you will be better to utilize RealBand which will allow you to focus primarily on the music rather than the software. I recommend you learn and use RealBand for multi track recording.

Many thanks Matt. Made me smile....

An aside note: You can also create multitrack recordings in Biab by clicking the 'Overdub underlying audio' button in the Record Audio window. This will merge each take with the existing audio track. You have no control over the track mix but you can continue to record takes as long as that button is checked.

In that same window, you see that punch in/out is also available.

All of the audio plug ins/ Vst's and DXI's are available as well. Harmonies by TC Helicon are available.

When you add the ability to record BIAB RealTracks, MIDI, MIDI Super Tracks; BIAB becomes a very robust multi track recorder in comparison to other multi track recorders produced by Zoom, Tascam, etc. The best most of those models could produce internally was a midi drum machine.

Anything you save in Band in a Box can be opened in Real Band. It should load just like it was in BB. Then, you can add as many tracks as you need (with in reason of course).

Guitarhacker..... this process with Realband is magic and simple.

Up to 48 individual channels in RealBand. Enough for most purposes

Hi Charlie,

I tried to move the audio track to performance track. Biab seems to pass the audio track and write Artist in the title of the Performance track, but this track does not sound ... it is silent.

.
I agree that Real Band is the way to go...but Charlie's solution scores very high on the 'cool-workaround' meter..!

I don’t know how old many of you are, but what Charlie described was known in the late 60s and early 70s as ‘sound on sound’. This layering was done with reel-to-reel tape decks, and it was a big deal.

It also was the forerunner of effects we routinely hear now in live performance. I had a device called an Echoplex, which was a short tape loop. I could play duets with myself during a solo.

I'm old; been there - done that! I hated splicing tape!

I had a Dynacord Echocord: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kiBeTGL-eCk

The same tape loop idea as your Echoplex.

Along with echos I could get the sound the Stones used in Satisfaction by turning the volume up on it and down on my amp. I attracted a lot of guitarist back then using that technique. Today the amp's gain control is used.

Things have really changed for the better haven't they?

AAhh the good old gig days mine was a Wem copycat still have it.

Things have really changed for the better have they?

doesn't look like it runs on a tape that looks class mariod

The clackity, clack, clack of a poor splice is hard to replicate. I loved my olde copycat machine.

well you can tell you had one Teunis, takes me back, clickity,clack..priceless.

Sorry in taking so long to respond. Had a sudden medical situation that required hospitalization. They also confiscated my phone and left me with no access to the forum.


You have to regenerate the track and you should hear the audio.

you,ve answered a couple of my post you alright..? Charlie

I have a Sony TC-730 tape recorder (tape deck + amplifier + internal speakers and external speaker connections) that has a switch for sound-on-sound or sound-with-sound. Unfortunately, it no longer works but it was quite the machine.

I am now thank you. Had a very serious heart blockage that nearly took me out. I'm home and feeling better, but very weak.

Charlie. I hope you are better now! Sounds horrid.

To the original poster: I think Charlie’s method of doing multi track recording is very creative if you do not have access to a daw. Seeing as you do have RealBand I think using RealBand to record multiple tracks would be the way to go because of the simple reason that you can see what you are doing. You can cut, paste, record just a small section that you messed up etc.

it is very easy to move your project from Biab to RealBand. Just set up the structure of the song and the instruments you want in Biab, save as an sgu open up in RealBand, open the sgu file (it takes a while the first time) and then start recording on the next blank track. Then when you are done, save your project as an seq file (which is what RealBand uses) and continue using the seq file and RealBand to complete your project. Export the composition as a wave file once you are done.

<<< Charlie. I hope you are better now! Sounds horrid.

To the original poster: I think Charlie’s method of doing multi track recording is very creative if you do not have access to a daw. >>>

Good morning Joanne. Thanks for your thoughts and concern. It was a very bad week but points toward a much brighter and hopefully long future.

Regarding Biab as a multitrack recorder, I'd like to make a few points for you to consider, especially with regard to finding value in applying multitrack recording from within the Biab program exclusively. I think this may actually be a beneficial future Blog for you to consider.

First, it expands a users knowledge base exposing them to features that may be meaningless if they are aware of them, but don't use. One example I think of that not many people seem to use or be aware of is that each track in the BIAB mixer can have up to 10 instruments. This equates to the equivalent of 70 Tracks in Realband or other DAW. Adding, replacing and alternating instruments using this feature also allow you to compose your arrangement as you compose your song without completely relying on F5. You can also gain change, pan and add/remove effects by duplicating the instruments on two tracks. For instance, say the Piano Track has Strumming Guitar| Mandolin|Pedal Steel|Bgrd Fiddle; Change the order of the instruments on a second track the Piano Track Strumming Guitar lowers in Volume -5db and the second track increases +5db for a Mandolin solo and the mandolin panning changes from -25L to 0 center for the solo and back to -25L at the end of the solo as the Piano Track strumming guitar volume is raised back +5db. Quite easy to automate tracks in the Biab mixer... There are many, many ways for novice and expert to manipulate instruments and settings in BIAB. For me, this has become somewhat a hobby within my hobby of music production. It is challenging and very rewarding to construct intricate and complex arrangements with limited tracks. As the producer and arranger, forethought, planning and care are required in building a song.

A hidden feature found when using this multiple instrument per track technique is because the BIAB generation engine reads ahead and sees the coming change in instruments and does two things; creates a smooth ending of instrument one, while creating a beginning of the second instrument complimentary to what the ending was doing. The second thing is the BIAB generation engine creates a smooth transition.

Another seldom discussed and little value given to feature is the Performance Track. This is again valuable to the novice as well as the expert Producer/Arranger. It requires careful planning to compose your song in a specific order because you will be committing to sub-mixes (bounce Tracks) just like the old school limited track analog Reel to Reel and Portastudios of the past. It allows the old school "Sound on Sound" layering technique of recording. Another thing it does is explode the 8 track limitation people think applies to Biab.

Couple this with Biab includes Dxi and Vst effects, the ability to use third party add-ons, the ability to select and generate thousands of RealTracks, Supermidi tracks and midi tracks from thousands of styles, regenerate them as desired as well as record multiple tracks of audio and add harmonies make BIAB a very robust multitrack recorder. It can in fact, do things no other multitrack recorder can do with the exception of Realband.

These techniques can be used by people like yourself who create original songs and cover songs as well as those who develop accompaniment, Karaoke tracks or practice chord charts. These techniques can extend some of the RealBand capabilities to MAC users who don't have access to RealBand. I believe their greatest use will be found by the BIAB hobbyist who enjoys 'playing' with BIAB.

Challenge yourself to creating a 20 instrument, 16 track song that includes special audio sound effects all within a single BIAB project, all without using any outside resource, completed solely by BIAB. You'll see. You'll also see that regardless if you use 20 different instruments or two instruments alternately 20 times or any combination between the two, you will discover many opportunities these techniques provide to have a professional and finished project you did not think possible in BIAB alone. In a non-serious piece, one can do this in less than 10 minutes.

Probably one of the best benefits to building a complex arrangement in BIAB is the BIAB StylePicker has the 'Play over current chord structure' option. The Realband Stylepicker does not have this option, at least not through the 2017 version. Literally dozens of styles and hundreds of Realtracks, Supermidi and midi instruments can be auditioned as they will sound in your song in minutes using the BIAB StylePicker.

Will there be naysayers? Of course. We already have those, be it get rid of midi, get rid of RealTracks, they won't upgrade because BIAB is not 64 bit or their wishlist request hasn't been granted. There will be those who have an established workflow and have no need or desire to change. There will be those who are simply not interested. There will be those who will point out it's so much easier to accomplish these tasks in a DAW. True. This isn't intended for those folks. But for the MAC user who uses these techniques for a partial regeneration may find this useful even if it's a workaround. It's not a DAW nor is it intended to be. It's an alternate workflow that's available if one chooses to use it. It's a possible expansion of an already feature packed software program.

Anyway, it is fodder for a future Blog and other members may take the challenge, try the techniques and find a benefit and enjoyment playing around with these techniques.

Hi Charlie. I would absolutely love it if you would write me a guest blog on this subject. Would you consider it?

LOL, I almost did in my comments above. Wouldn't mind but not sure what you have in mind. This explains the benefits, so mayby you're thinking of outlining the step by step procedure to add instruments, create Performance Tracks and Bound sub mixes and render a song?

Charlie

Hi Charlie
Yes that would be great. Just a step by step guide with screen shots. I just ms paint or mine.

Ok. I'm glad to do it. I'm moving a little slow at the moment and we are also coming into the busy holiday season. I'll shoot to have this for you for your February Blog if that's ok.

That is great Charlie