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Songwriting
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Songwriting
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Joined: Dec 2013
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Nice share Mike! They referred to that book we've talked about before in this forum, "The Song Machine", in a link under the video when you hit it on You Tube. Max was talked about in a good portion of that book. I took some notes from the video and included for those interested: 1) Melody is King! - Write melody before lyrics - Build song around it w/o being too complicated - Fit syllables to notes of melody - A line has to have a certain amount of syllables and the next line has to be the mirror image Chorus pattern example, # of syllables: Line 1 - 5 6 8 <--A B C Line 2 - 5 6 12 <--A B D Line 3 - 5 6 8 <--A B C Line 4 - 5 5 12 <--A B D 2) Chorus within 50 seconds of song start 3) No more than 3 or 4 melodic parts per song - Only introduced one part at a time 4) Recycle melodic parts - Using them repeatedly gets the listener used to the song - You can also use parts of the melody in both verse and chorus - Katy Perry - ET - Had the same 8 bar melody in verse and chorus 5) Create balance - Ying Yang - If verse is sloppy, make chorus a little neater Previous thread on this: How Taylor Swift Writes her 1989 album Melodies
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Songwriting
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Joined: Aug 2010
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Great info presented in a somewhat annoying way. I don't think he could seem less inspired presenting it, and he drops in volume at the end of most of his points.
Now, the points themselves are spot on. I've studied Max for years and everything seems simple, yet to trying to pull off what he does is actually difficult. The man is amazing at what he does.
Thanks for the post. I will watch ANYTHING you post about MM and his proteges.
Last edited by HearToLearn; 01/08/18 04:52 PM.
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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Songwriting
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Joined: Dec 2013
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HTL... That's what she said..... Nice....
Steve BIAB/RB 2022, Pro Tools 2020, Korg N5, JBL LSR 4328 Powered Monitors, AKG/Shure Mics.
PC: Win11 PRO, 4 TB M2 SSD, 2 TB HD, 128 GB Memory
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Songwriting
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This is all interesting and I am sure there is much to be gained from looking at why and how songs are successful. However the more you narrow everything down to a formula the more you will tend to make all music sound the same. At some point if all songs do end up sounding the same then people will become bored with the results.
Just throwing an alternative view out there.
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Songwriting
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Well said funkycornwall.
It's not like it's a singular formula though. It's more like a bunch of things, and I do mean MANY, that you pick and choose from as options.
Maybe think of it more like chord progressions. If you only used the same one, over and over, and never used any others...yes, it would get boring. REALLY boring.
However, chord progressions are formulas. Even scales are formulas. Yes, there are soooo many options within each of those formulas.
Max is 46, and has had 68 songs chart in the top 10 in 23 years. He must have something figured out.
One other thing to point out, another way he keeps things from sounding too much the same is obvious...he has many different artists record his songs!
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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Songwriting
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PG Music Staff
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This was very interesting! Although I'm personally not a fan of most of the music Max Martin writes, I have to admire his formula and how incredible his output is.
Cheers,
Deryk
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Songwriting
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This was very interesting! Although I'm personally not a fan of most of the music Max Martin writes, I have to admire his formula and how incredible his output is. Deryk, here is something to think about...I'm not sure HE is a fan of most of his songs, from a listening perspective. I think he loves and is passionate about writing and production. From what I understand, the type of music he likes is metal! His band was a metal band, but didn't do particularly well.
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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Songwriting
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Keep in mind we are studying history here. Max has likely already moved on either incrementally or perhaps with something completely new. If you had a goal of being the next Max Martin you would NOT duplicate what he did/does but instead perhaps be inspired to create your own fresh unique style.
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Songwriting
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Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 3,414
PG Music Staff
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PG Music Staff
Joined: Feb 2017
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This was very interesting! Although I'm personally not a fan of most of the music Max Martin writes, I have to admire his formula and how incredible his output is. Deryk, here is something to think about...I'm not sure HE is a fan of most of his songs, from a listening perspective. I think he loves and is passionate about writing and production. From what I understand, the type of music he likes is metal! His band was a metal band, but didn't do particularly well. Very true, HearToLearn! I definitely admire his craft, there is no doubt about that  And it's very interesting to me that his passion lies in metal music! I wouldn't have though, given the output from him I'm used to hearing.
Cheers,
Deryk
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Songwriting
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Now this is very cool and very insightful, what J3 just said. Pro songwriters strongly advise me: Do NOT try and write what is on the radio. By the time you hear it, it is already old and they are working on new stuff you will hear next year. That is, if you ever get a feedback evaluation that tells you to use the idioms and "slang" on the radio today, don't do it. You are wasting your time. You are entering a race that has already been won. You have to enter the real race and that is the race to fresh. It is kind of like the old adage about reading the business news. "Don't make business judgments based on what you read in the paper. The real investors knew all that stuff three weeks ago." In other words, all the real decisions are made on inside news and inside bets--and by the time you read it in the paper the news is already old. So, yeah, I agree with J3 on this one. I just hope that when the future does arrive, they allow us to start playing 3rds, 5ths and 6ths again, and that we are allowed to be "emotional" once more and that people don't give anymore Ted talks saying bizarre things like "Don't give them 4, give them 2 + 2." I miss the 3rds, and 6ths and 5ths. And I like piano players--and other people who know how to play. I miss them, too. Please bring them back God.
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