For the one familiar with Real Guitar, will know that it displays the name of the chord played on the keyboard. Since BB really sucks big time recognizing chord in imported midi files, it would be helpful for us "non musicians" if the name of the chord was showed also in the guitar and the piano window. I guess you guys that can recognize a chord name by seeing the notes on the fret or the piano, does not need this, but I and other with no such knowledge, need it badly... As for know, I have to use google to find the name of the chord when the group of notes is f.eks. D-A-D-A-D-F#... and all other combinations of notes.
Hope this makes sense, or that I have not overlooked some feature in BB...
Forever Grateful, BUT, sometimes pissed of. Trygve "Leo" Larsen BiaB 2020, Windows 8.1, Intel Core i5 CPU, 270GHz, 32 Gb RAM My OLD tracks on Soundcloud; https://soundcloud.com/trygve-larsen My NEW is unpublished The Universe = Uni-verse ie one song.
Since BB really sucks big time recognizing chord in imported midi files
Trygve,
This is not true. BIAB is actually very good at recognising the chords in a midi file if the midi file contains enough musical information that makes identifying the chords possible.
If the midi file only contains a single melody, then identifying chords is much less accurate, impossible even, because a single note can belong to huge number of different chords.
For chord interpretation accuracy, the midi files should contain the key of the music, and at least three (and preferably more) notes playing in harmony with the melody.
Since BB really sucks big time recognizing chord in imported midi files
Trygve,
This is not true. BIAB is actually very good at recognising the chords in a midi file if the midi file contains enough musical information that makes identifying the chords possible.
If the midi file only contains a single melody, then identifying chords is much less accurate, impossible even, because a single note can belong to huge number of different chords.
For chord interpretation accuracy, the midi files should contain the key of the music, and at least three (and preferably more) notes playing in harmony with the melody.
Regards, Noel
Well, perhaps I do something wrong then?.. I have tried it on many songs like this, where I imported a midifiles found on the net, but I just had to mute the RT when I render it because of that... ; Grieg -Aaases Death -Remix but i sound just terrible to me.... Could u give it a try and see if it sound right to u ?
Forever Grateful, BUT, sometimes pissed of. Trygve "Leo" Larsen BiaB 2020, Windows 8.1, Intel Core i5 CPU, 270GHz, 32 Gb RAM My OLD tracks on Soundcloud; https://soundcloud.com/trygve-larsen My NEW is unpublished The Universe = Uni-verse ie one song.
For instance; Should not F# C# A# F# C# give a different chord then B D B F# ?
Forever Grateful, BUT, sometimes pissed of. Trygve "Leo" Larsen BiaB 2020, Windows 8.1, Intel Core i5 CPU, 270GHz, 32 Gb RAM My OLD tracks on Soundcloud; https://soundcloud.com/trygve-larsen My NEW is unpublished The Universe = Uni-verse ie one song.
Using chords to analyse classical music is fraught with difficulties. The reason for this is that most of the music that we popularly call 'classical' is composed using a mixture of harmonic principles and rules of counterpoint. 20th century chord theory does not apply.
In the 'classical' system of composing, chords arise as the vertical alignment of melodic movement. Some of these chords have no suitable names in terms of modern chord theory (for example the French or German augmented 6 chord).
Also, because the vertical alignment of notes happens all over the place, on beats and between beats, it's difficult, if not impossible, to simply reduce this to just a single chord that relates to today's popular music. The more complex the classical music, the more impossible this becomes.
Grieg is highly complex and mere chordal analyses is a challenge for all who try to deconstruct it.
That said, you can get BIAB to look more closely at the chords. Rather than simply open the midi file in BIAB which causes BIAB to use 2-beat resolution for chord interpretation, use the 'Import chords' function and set it to 1-beat resolution. It's also important to make sure that you get the various midi channels correct - these will vary from file to file. (see the images below)
When analysing classical music, though, you'll never get the perfect results you are after if you use complex works. With simpler works that are much less rich in counterpoint, the results will be ok but will still require some tweaking.
Just to confirm what Noel said. BIAB does recognize well the chords in a MIDI file. I very often use this feature and it works fine. It is a very powerful tool. But according to the overall quality of the MIDI file, the number/type of tracks,etc...BIAB may generate some erroneous chords. So, at the end of the process, the user has to check all the generated chords and changes some of them if required.
So do that, you need to get a minimum knowlegde of harmony. My advice would be to get some basic skills on chords/harmony - on the net or in some books - So, you'll get a better control over your music.
As you carefully state, the identifications issues are extremely complex. It's definitely not a matter of looking at what notes form a basic triad and announcing the chord.
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So for a simple guy like me. On guitar there may be 20 ways to play a C chord. The chord will be recognised as a C but not the inversion, where one would play the particular C chord or the shape of the chord on a guitar. One may play a C6 but the way it is played causes the program to see it as an Am. This can get way more complex but it is just the concept. Then again I guess experience and knowing the style of music one is playing should steer one in the right direction.
To expect ACW or whatever to get every instance correct is probably asking too much. It will take some human intervention to get it exactly how we want it.
Just another rant
Tony
Last edited by Teunis; 01/17/1811:30 PM.
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Fundamentally, the ACW does an absolutely amazing job of handling these complexities.
Picking a relative minor is probably the easiest.
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
Tony, yes, I certainly didn't mean to refer to your 'human' example.
I meant to say 'for the ACW to be able to pick the relative minor is probably the easiest'. After that, the task of the ACW become exponentially more complex.
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
ACW also works the best with only a rhythm and bass tracks. If you can separate these from the MIDI file then ACW can be very good.
ACW will analyze what ever is given to it thus with lead lines and counter points it can get confused. For example if all ACW hears is A-C-E with an A in the bass line then ACW calls it Am. But if the C is in the bass it becomes C6. Add a lead line that contains a D it becomes either a Cadd9 or an Amsus. The less data ACW has to work with the more accurate it can be but you will need at least a triad. YMMV
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Wow ! This is extremely helpful for me... A good lesson to understand something I have not been aware of at all... Thank u soooo much guys for stepping in and explain, especially u Noel. As usual, ur lecture with image explanations are very very helpful. I will give that a try today to some of the classical midi files that I have given up on in the ordinary way to get right.. Love this forum more and more...
Forever Grateful, BUT, sometimes pissed of. Trygve "Leo" Larsen BiaB 2020, Windows 8.1, Intel Core i5 CPU, 270GHz, 32 Gb RAM My OLD tracks on Soundcloud; https://soundcloud.com/trygve-larsen My NEW is unpublished The Universe = Uni-verse ie one song.
Tried this out last night on The death of Aase, by Grieg, and it became almost correct. Just had to do a few corrections... A few other songs, did not show up with the melody on the melody track by this method, by I guess I did something wrong then...
So thank u a lot again guys...
Forever Grateful, BUT, sometimes pissed of. Trygve "Leo" Larsen BiaB 2020, Windows 8.1, Intel Core i5 CPU, 270GHz, 32 Gb RAM My OLD tracks on Soundcloud; https://soundcloud.com/trygve-larsen My NEW is unpublished The Universe = Uni-verse ie one song.
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