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”Kinda like putting a home recording enthusiast into a multi-million dollar state of the art studio and turning him loose to record. The result will sound like he did it in his bedroom. By the same token, take a pro recording engineer and give him a laptop in a bedroom and he'll turn out something that will blow your mind.” I had the enormous privilege of having a Grammy-nominated recording engineer do just that with my Sunn board and TEAC A2340-SX four-track RTR tape deck. As an experienced live sound engineer, I could do a lot; but he did more, and did it faster and better than I could. It was illuminating, to say the least! R.
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
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I had no idea John played trumpet. Very cool. He heard me play my jazz compositions (written in BIAB) with a symphony orchestra.
Eddie, what’s a Dm7 add 0 ?
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eddie1261
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Eddie, what’s a Dm7 add 0 ? LOL!!! A typo that I will fix!
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eddie1261
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Or a chord embellishment that adds nothing to the song...
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Everyone knows you can't add zero to a chord. You can only subtract it.
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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I had no idea John played trumpet. Yep, I played first chair in our small Fort Knox High School Band in 11th and 12th grade, as well as my sophomore and senior year in college at North Georgia College (a well-respected military college). I didn't my junior year, because I was band master, so I directed/conducted the band instead (although I was not a music major). I remember one time at all-district band, I played last chair in the "A" band (missed first chair in the "B" band by one  - Hah!) Anyway, we were playing a jazzy kind of piece and it just wasn't sounding right. So the director started with first chair and had each person in turn play the solo, and each time, he'd say, "No, no, no! That's not how it should sound." And he got closer and closer to me (I think we had 9 trumpeters), and I'm going, "Oh, crap! If they can't do it, who am I?" Anyway, I played the part, and the director said, "YES! That's exactly how it's supposed to sound". I tell you, I got a lot of glares from up the line, but I got to play the solo at the concert. Over the years, I've played a few times at church and accompanying a local community chorale on occasion. I just can't find the time to practice, so I've lost my embouchure and range, but I can still pick it up and finger the notes, although my tone leaves a lot to be desired. The "want to play" is there, but too many competing priorities.
John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 8TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 11TB SATA BB2026/UMC204HD&404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/Notion/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com (under rehosting and construction)
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eddie1261
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I think part of why I am having a hard time wrapping my head around this is that I have never used BIAB. Never once. Only RB. Since the day I got the program I have used Real Band. That file incompatibility between the 2 programs was not fathomable to me. I had someone send me a BIAB chart once a few years back along with the MP3 of his song. I opened RB, imported it MGU (That's it, right? MGU from BIAB?), and RB completely regenerated that song so it sounded very little like the original MP3. The chord progression was the same but the chord voicings and the overall flavor was different. SO when Joanne said "Open melodist" I had no idea what she was talking about because I have never asked this software to create on its own.
Last edited by eddie1261; 01/29/18 12:35 PM.
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How hard is it to work with a group when "Go to the 4th there" means nothing? How much harder is it to say, “Play an ‘F’ there” than to say “Go to the 4th”? If I’m the guy in the room with the largest music vocabulary, hopefully I know more than one way to quickly communicate an idea to a musician with less formal training. If a person has no musical,talent at all, then there is no reason for me to waste my time making a song work; but If I’m collaborating with a talented amateur, I’ll find some way to communicate on their level to make it work. I don’t want to sound like Barney Fife. Barney Fife: “I’m surprised at you, Andy. They want people who have had musical training. Why, suppose they ask Rafe to do something he don't know? Rafe, if they asked you to sing a cappella, could you do it?”
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“I’m surprised at you, Andy. They want people who have had musical training. Why, suppose they ask Rafe to do something he don't know? Rafe, if they asked you to sing a cappella, could you do it?”
Well, Barney, what if they asked YOU to sing a capella? To answer your question, are professionals in any field not expected to know basic basics? I never met anybody in IT that called their mouse "the clicky thing". Had I told that guy "Play an F there", what would have happened on the next song when we were in E and I needed the 4th? Should I need to spoon feed things to professionals? The 4th is always the 4th note in a scale. The physical chord, obviously, changes depending on the key. Note that this same guy told us twice every week for 12 weeks "I am going to go start taking theory lessons." On week 12 I told him "Jesus Christ. Either start taking theory lessons or stop telling us you are going to start taking theory lessons. Had you started when you said you were going to you'd have 11 weeks of theory lessons under your belt." Had he come in and said "I don't know a lot of theory" I would have known how to speak to him when he needed some direction. And would have been happy to help him learn had he asked. But he chose to bluff and made the same mistakes every rehearsal. Mistakes should happen only once. Not just in music. In life. (Says the guy who was married 3 times...)
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or a song that adds nothing to the embellishment? <G>
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Eddie,
Your post and your poll but ... The way the a, b, c responses are worded make me believe the responses are intermingling music knowledge with music skill.
Many can agree that the Nashville session players of the fifties, sixties and seventies were highly skilled musicians. But, many lacked formal music knowledge so Nashville Notation was developed so they could communicate and formulate ideas. ABC Notation that PG Music started supporting with 2018 BiaB for Windows was created for similar reasons.
I believe a person can use their ears and tools such as the Chord Builder that PG Music provides to create a song. Imagine a person noodling on a piano keyboard or whistling to develop a melody. They can then use the chord builder and the metronome to blindly find the tempo, chords, feel and time signature that follows their melody. Time consuming? Sure. Painful? Of course but doable.
My responses: Formal music training? A How good a musician? Permanent beginner. Continually relearning as I need it.
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Hi Eddie. I used both BIAB and RealBand. I always start getting the structure style and tempo right in Biab and then save it as an mgu then move over to RealBand to record vocals, add effects and generate additional instruments. It always takes a while to open the mgu file in RealBand the first time but after you save it as a seq file it is quick.
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I prefer to work with people who know music theory and can read -- but also who can play by ear. Different skills, but IMO all are important. Extremely important to me is someone who has fun playing. I've met some monsters who are so serious about the music that they aren't having fun. I guess that's a valid approach for some, but not for me. And to me Nashville Notation is a variation of the system we learned in school; using Roman numerals, capitals for major and lower case for minor. So a 2m7 or a 2-7 would be ii7 and a 57 would be a V7. That leaves Arabic numbers for extensions instead of the triad. That's easier for me, probably because I grew up with it. And I've played in 'club-date' bands where the leader held up fingers for key signatures. Two fingers up meant two sharps, one down meant one flat, a fist no sharps or flats, and your knowledge of the song tells you whether it is major or minor. And a Dm7 add 0 might mean - no embellishments, no substitutions, just play the chord  When in school I was first sax in the all-state band, and section leader on tenor (that seat goes to the first alto by default) every year that I was in school. I've been treated as a peer by some of the most famous musicians in the world back when we were the opening act for major stars, and I was in a the house band of a jazz jam where people like Ira Sullivan, Red Rodney, Duffy Jackson and other big jazzers sat in. Some of these people were real monsters. As confident as I am in my own abilities, when some of them came to town, I felt like I was faking it. "Monster" is a relative term. I think no matter how good you are, there are always players out there better than you, and players worse than you as well. So I'm happy with my level of proficiency, and at the same time, even in my senior years, I am working on my skills to get better. To me music isn't a destination but a voyage. Notes
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
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And a Dm7 add 0 might mean - no embellishments, no substitutions, just play the chord Yeah, in this case it meant "Old man typing without his glasses hit the 0 instead of the 9 and didn't see it until Matt pointed it out". The same old man who gets laser surgery on the other eye today....
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And a Dm7 add 0 might mean - no embellishments, no substitutions, just play the chord Yeah, in this case it meant "Old man typing without his glasses hit the 0 instead of the 9 and didn't see it until Matt pointed it out". The same old man who gets laser surgery on the other eye today.... I understand. I have typos built into my fingers. They came as standard equipment. I even have Type O Blood. And being farsighted makes this computer screen hide so many of those typos. Notes
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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I look at BIAB as a tool and a very nice tool I must say. Again back to being a painter as all arts are related. There was a time when the Dutch Masters and Rembrandt and Leonardo were painting portraits of the rich and famous. And then the camera was invented and all of a sudden many people were taking pictures and painters sort of fell out of fashion. So now almost everyone could have a portrait hanging on the wall. But did the photographers have the skills of the artists, hardly. In photography today yes more skills are required to be a professional. But still a highly skilled painter requires a lot more. The creativity and technique is what sets apart the professionals from the novice in my opinion.
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I had the laser cataract surgery. That’s why I could see it. But why not just write Dm9?
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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I had the laser cataract surgery. That’s why I could see it. But why not just write Dm9?
Because I tend to be wordy, verbose, repetitive and redundant. Always and forever....
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I had a real eye opening experience Thursday night in this regard.
A little back history; I am recording 4 guys that played together 8 years ago for a bit.
They got back together to write another CD. Drummer, Bass player, guitarist, and keyboards/sax/vocals.
For 10 weeks there was a fair amount of time spent trying to teach the guitarist his part. Granted they were writing new songs, but after repeatedly playing the same song it would get old sometimes.
He was sick on Thursday, so just the other 3 were there.
They wrote 4 songs and recorded almost keeper tracks as demo to remember the songs. That is compared to 1 song a night previously.
The difference? These 3 know theory, they know how to listen, and they know their instruments well enough to play what they hear .. but they can also say "Yeah, for that section let's do 1-2-1-4-2-5 and hold the 5 for 3 bars", and they know what to do.
And they listen.
Magical things happen when players listen in a live setting and understand theory and song structures.
For instance during one section of a brand new song writing attempt (jam) the keyboard player started a 'call/answer' pattern. After he did it twice, the drummer had caught on and on the third call played a pretty complex pattern on his bass drum that accented the 'call'. This in turn caused the bass player to catch on, so the fourth (final) time they all accented the call, which made that whole section build up. This was very cool to hear from guys playing something they were writing (making up) at the same time. They understand theory and listen and it makes a huge difference.
When the guitar player is there he muddies things up enough to distract the other guys and they don't get the chance to listen to each other. Plus the time spent explaining what they were doing to him when he couldn't understand theory. That's like talking to someone who doesn't understand the native language.
So Thursday I had to point out the elephant in the room.
It's funny, they were all thinking it, but afraid to say it because it might cause strife between the band. Every one of them thanked me for saying it.
Sometimes being the recording engineer comes with certain freedoms. <grin>
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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Band-in-a-Box 2026 Video: AI Stems & Notes - split polyphonic audio into instruments and transcribe
This video demonstrates how to use the new AI-Notes feature together with the AI-Stems splitter, allowing you to select an audio file and have it separated into individual stems while transcribing each one to its own MIDI track. AI-Notes converts polyphonic audio—either full mixes or individual instruments—into MIDI that you can view in notation or play back instantly.
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You can see all the 2026 videos on our forum!
Bonus PAK and 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®
With your version 2026 for Windows Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons for FREE! Or upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
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- The 2026 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 27 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 25 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 12 new RealStyles.
- MIDI Styles Set 92: Look Ma! More MIDI 15: Latin Jazz
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 46: Piano & Organ
- Instrumental Studies Set 24: Groovin' Blues Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 19: Songs with Vocals 9
- Playable RealTracks Set 5
- RealDrums Stems Set 9: Cool Brushes
- SynthMaster Sounds Set 1 (with audio demos)
- Android Band-in-a-Box® App (included)
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- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyle.
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- MIDI Styles Set 93: Look Ma! More MIDI 16: SynthMaster
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 47: More SynthMaster
- Instrumental Studies 25 - Soul Jazz Guitar Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 20: Songs with Vocals 10
- RealDrums Stems Set 10: Groovin' Sticks
- SynthMaster Sounds & Styles Set 2 (sounds & styles with audio demos)
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®!
Video: New User Interface (GUI)
Join Tobin as he takes you on a tour of the new user interface in Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®! This modern GUI redesign offers a sleek new look with updated toolbars, refreshed windows, and a smoother workflow. The brand-new side toolbar puts track selection, the MultiPicker Library, and other essential tools right at your fingertips. Plus, our upgraded Multi-View lets you layer multiple windows without overlap, giving you a highly flexible workspace. Many windows—including Tracks, Piano Roll, and more—have been redesigned for improved usability and a cleaner, more intuitive interface, and more!
Watch the video.
You can see all the 2026 videos on our forum!
Introducing XPro Styles PAK 10 – Now Available for Windows Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 10 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 28 RealTracks and RealDrums!
Few things are certain in life: death, taxes, and a brand spankin’ new XPro Styles PAK! In this, the 10th edition of our XPro Styles PAK series, we’ve got 100 styles coming your way! We have the classic 25 styles each from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, and rounding out this volume's wildcard slot is 25 styles in the Praise & Worship genre! A wide spanning genre, you can find everything from rock, folk, country, and more underneath its umbrella. The included 28 RealTracks and RealDrums can be used with any Band-in-a-Box® 2026 (and higher) package.
Here’s just a small sampling of what you can look forward to in XPro Styles PAK 10: Soft indie folk worship songs, bumpin’ country boogies, gospel praise breaks, hard rockin’ pop, funky disco grooves, smooth Latin jazz pop, bossa nova fusion, western swing, alternative hip-hop, cool country funk, and much more!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
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Video: XPro Styles PAK 10 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Introducing Xtra Styles PAK 21 – Now Available for Windows Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest Xtra Styles PAK installment—the all new Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher)!
Rejoice, one and all, for Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box® is here! We’re serving up 200 brand spankin’ new styles to delight your musical taste buds! The first three courses are the classics you’ve come to know and love, including offerings from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, but, not to be outdone, this year’s fourth course is bro country! A wide ranging genre, you can find everything from hip-hop, uptempo outlaw country, hard hitting rock, funk, and even electronica, all with that familiar bro country flair. The dinner bell has been rung, pickup up Xtra Styles PAK 21 today!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Energetic folk rock, raucous train beats, fast country boogies, acid jazz grooves, laid-back funky jams, a bevy of breezy jazz waltzes, calm electro funk, indie synth pop, industrial synth metal, and more bro country than could possibly fit in the back of a pickup truck!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 21 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 21 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 21.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 21 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 21 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
Introducing XPro Styles PAK 10 – Now Available for Mac Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 10 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 28 RealTracks and RealDrums!
Few things are certain in life: death, taxes, and a brand spankin’ new XPro Styles PAK! In this, the 10th edition of our XPro Styles PAK series, we’ve got 100 styles coming your way! We have the classic 25 styles each from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, and rounding out this volume's wildcard slot is 25 styles in the Praise & Worship genre! A wide spanning genre, you can find everything from rock, folk, country, and more underneath its umbrella. The included 28 RealTracks and RealDrums can be used with any Band-in-a-Box® 2026 (and higher) package.
Here’s just a small sampling of what you can look forward to in XPro Styles PAK 10: Soft indie folk worship songs, bumpin’ country boogies, gospel praise breaks, hard rockin’ pop, funky disco grooves, smooth Latin jazz pop, bossa nova fusion, western swing, alternative hip-hop, cool country funk, and much more!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 10 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 10 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Introducing Xtra Styles PAK 21 – Now Available for Mac Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest Xtra Styles PAK installment—the all new Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher)!
Rejoice, one and all, for Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box® is here! We’re serving up 200 brand spankin’ new styles to delight your musical taste buds! The first three courses are the classics you’ve come to know and love, including offerings from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, but, not to be outdone, this year’s fourth course is bro country! A wide ranging genre, you can find everything from hip-hop, uptempo outlaw country, hard hitting rock, funk, and even electronica, all with that familiar bro country flair. The dinner bell has been rung, pickup up Xtra Styles PAK 21 today!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Energetic folk rock, raucous train beats, fast country boogies, acid jazz grooves, laid-back funky jams, a bevy of breezy jazz waltzes, calm electro funk, indie synth pop, industrial synth metal, and more bro country than could possibly fit in the back of a pickup truck!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 21 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 21 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 21.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 21 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 21 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
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