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This is an innocent request for an answer.
In these days of political correctness, is the song "Dixie" considered to be offensive to some Americans - particularly AAs?
I don't want to start a bunfight over this, just asking an innocent question.
Cheers,
Keith
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Hi Keith,
I play it a few times a year for a very diverse audiences with no problems but it's included in the Trilogy. Come to think of it I have not even thought of it as being offensive until you asked the question. I guess my head is buried in the music aspect of the tune.
Later,
Last edited by Danny C.; 02/17/18 10:15 PM.
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Dixie was a popular song in the 1840's and later amongst union and southern troops during the civil war; however the sheet music then and later used an "Uncle Remus" style “black dialect” and it was often performed by blackfaced minstrels. I would certainly think that it would be offensive to many of today’s African Americans. And I would not consider their reaction to be political correctness just that it is offensive. I could always ask some black friends for a better and perhaps less presumptive answer. EDIT: Wiki's take on it Dixie
Last edited by Janice & Bud; 02/18/18 12:42 PM.
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Bud's answer is probably a better indicator of the current state of political correctness, which answers your actual question.
But here are my thoughts on the larger question of taking offense:
if a person steps on your toe while dancing, would you take the same umbrage as if they had just marched up and stomped on your toe out of malice? Probably not.
In the past, intent was what made something offensive or benign.
I think that in most cases, actions (and songs) that are delivered with good intent will be perceived that way by everybody except those who WANT conflict.
It is impossible to go through life without offending anyone... mostly because people can be so creative about finding ways to be offended.
Since nobody is omniscient and we can't possibly know what will trigger every person on the planet, there is a choice to be made:
1) take no risk, ever. Stay home with the curtains drawn, lest we accidentally do or say something that offends somebody
or
2) act in good faith with no mal-intent or duplicity toward anybody. Make an honest effort to understand what offends most people, and be quick to apologize when the occasional transgression occurs.
Identify the people who chronically get offended just to stir up confrontation, and avoid them. Life is too short to walk on egg shells. Staying engaged in a battle you can never resolve sucks the life out of life.
Conversely, failing to stay engaged in life because we might offend somebody is... well... I'll let each person finish that sentence for him/herself.
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Just noticing here, so far you got 3 replies from 3 people that live in the south.
You got an interesting array of answers.
As a life long northerner I would think it would be viewed much like the confederate flag.
Some people just want it to go away, and some can't seem to let it go.
It certainly doesn't get played around these parts much.
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I currently live in the south, but have lived around the world, and embrace diversity. But this I do know, I went to a highly acclaimed military college in the southern United States (which I would say tended center conservative...although today, based on FB posts, it seems my college friends are for the most part squarely very far right), and I played in the military marching band (I'm a trumpet player), but we also provided a pep band for our home basketball games. When our team scored, we would always play "Dixie". However, in my junior year (I was Bandmaster, so I directed the band), we were told in no uncertain terms from the school administration that we could no longer play that song, period. Since our team was the Saints (our mascot was the Saint Bernard), we started playing "When The Saints Go Marching In" (which I suspect today would be challenged for other reasons, but was acceptable at the time). That was 1980. I've not played that song, and have rarely heard it since. There is obviously historical context for the song and (my view) that's where it belongs. I've got almost 60,000 songs on my iPod. I'm not any lesser for not playing or listening to that one song, and while a zippy, upbeat sounding song (instrumentally), I certainly don't miss it. My $0.02 worth and losing value every day. 
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With most symbols of the Rebellion, who is using the symbol, and to what affect, is the determining factor on whether or not is going to be offensive. I certainly wouldn’t sign on to play it at a KKK meeting, even though the participants wouldn’t be offended. There are some folks who want to make a White Supremacy statement or otherwise deliberately make a group of people feel uncomfortable with their use. As a musician I have played and sung Dixie in a variety of groups and settings including audiences that included African Americans and never had any problems. More often than not the times I’ve used it have been in situations where I was singing The Battle Hymn of the Republic, Marching to Richmond, Battle Cry of Freedom, and other Civil War Era Songs.
Keith
2026 Audiophile Windows 11 RYZEN THREADRIPPER 3960X 4.5GHZ 128 GB RAM 2 Nvidia RTX 3090s, Vegas,Acid,SoundForge,Izotope Production,Melodyne Studio,SONAR,3 Raven Mtis
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eddie1261
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Perception now is far different than perception was "then". Bud mentioned that the original sheet music was typed in a dialect that at the time was fine but now would be considered a slanderous act. I went to grade school starting in 1956, and about 4th grade we started to do those quarterly recital type things so parents could take grainy black and white photos of their kids. I remember clearly being handed sheet music for that song with the lyrics written "I wish I was in de land ob cotton".
How do you think that would fly 60 years later in 2018? And here is where I start to have my doubts that the rioting generation will ever get it. You can't apply the "then" to the "now". It isn't the same world. Nobody will ever say that the disparity between races was ever right, but none of this nonsense going on today can undo what was back in the "then".
Of the southerners who responded, how many of you are southern born and raised? I know one reply was from someone who migrated from de land ob snowy and cold winters. Keith and Bud, you have been in the south your whole life, right? John, are you not from Virginia, which we up here always thought of as "south lite"? A 6 hour drive from Lake Erie hardly seems "south". Georgia, Florida... those seem "south".
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Keith and Bud, you have been in the south your whole life, right? I can’t speak for Bud, but I was born and raised near Johnstown, PA, graduated from the University of Pittsburgh and came to Mobile to go to Medical School at South Alabama. Pat Marr grew up at the other end of the west Slope of the PRR and we discovered after we got on here that a friend of his from Altoona played in one of my bands.
Keith
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eddie1261
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So you were 22-ish when you went south. I know Pat moved at a little older age.
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So you were 22-ish when you went south. I know Pat moved at a little older age. No, I was born in 1951, didn’t start Medical School until 1979. Spent a few years trying to become the next incarnation of the Beatles after high school.
Keith
2026 Audiophile Windows 11 RYZEN THREADRIPPER 3960X 4.5GHZ 128 GB RAM 2 Nvidia RTX 3090s, Vegas,Acid,SoundForge,Izotope Production,Melodyne Studio,SONAR,3 Raven Mtis
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Their is an old saying divide and conquer which the politics of today use for control and power. Another saying was never let a good catastrophe go to waste again which politicians use to divide, fund raise and try to maintain power on one side or the other.
Many people today do not really know our history and have no context to relate or realize how the world was back then. It just isn't taught in school and many history books have been rewritten.
Historical facts most young people today do not know.
Abraham Lincoln was a Republican.
Dr. Martin Luther King was a Republican.
Richard Nixon, Republican signed the Clean Air and Water act.
The Civil War was not just about slavery, but many other issues such as states rights and economics.
The northern states also had slaves and in some places more than the South.
I remember recently watching a psychology teacher being questioned and chastised by a rather liberal reporter for his beliefs of free speech. She felt we should never make anyone else feel uncomfortable. He clued her in that right now she was making him feel extremely uncomfortable but it was necessary so that we humans would think.
It's Orwell's 1984 if we all are thought controlled about what we can say or not. "In the age of deception, the truth will seem radical."
In our hearts we love all people, but do not agree with evil.
If we write or sing something in a historical context it's not to put down anyone, but it's just a song.
But that being said some people will choose to be offended by anything. No one is forced to sit and listen to anything. I feel offended many times when I hear cursing in a rap song or violence against women or cops so I turn the dial and I don't listen to that music. Should rap music be banned?
Last edited by Belladonna; 02/18/18 01:55 PM.
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eddie1261
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No, I was born in 1951, didn’t start Medical School until 1979. Spent a few years trying to become the next incarnation of the Beatles after high school. We're the same age then. June 1951.
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Their is an old saying divide and conquer which the politics of today use for control and power. Another saying was never let a good catastrophe go to waste again which politicians use to divide, fund raise and try to maintain power on one side or the other.
Many people today do not really know our history and have no context to relate or realize how the world was back then. It just isn't taught in school and many history books have been rewritten.
Historical facts most young people today do not know.
Abraham Lincoln was a Republican.
Dr. Martin Luther King was a Republican.
Richard Nixon, Republican signed the Clean Air and Water act.
The Civil War was not just about slavery, but many other issues such as states rights and economics.
The northern states also had slaves and in some places more than the South.
I remember recently watching a psychology teacher being questioned and chastised by a rather liberal reporter for his beliefs of free speech. She felt we should never make anyone else feel uncomfortable. He clued her in that right now she was making him feel extremely uncomfortable but it was necessary so that we humans would think.
It's Orwell's 1984 if we all are thought controlled about what we can say or not. "In the age of deception, the truth will seem radical."
In our hearts we love all people, but do not agree with evil.
If we write or sing something in a historical context it's not to put down anyone, but it's just a song.
But that being said some people will choose to be offended by anything. No one is forced to sit and listen to anything. I feel offended many times when I hear cursing in a rap song or violence against women or cops so I turn the dial and I don't listen to that music. Should rap music be banned? I agree completely! A lot of people do not know or they do not acknowledge that there were black slave owners and also white slaves, google/bing black slave owners for info. I have never had a song hurt me. I have never been offended by a statue and only a couple of flags offend me. i.e. the ISIS flag or when the Mexican flag is placed over the American flag here in the USA. YMMV.
The bumper sticker said "I'm a veterinarian, therefore I can drive like an animal".
Suddenly I realized how many proctologists are on the road.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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No, I was born in 1951, didn’t start Medical School until 1979. Spent a few years trying to become the next incarnation of the Beatles after high school. We're the same age then. June 1951. Puppies!
The bumper sticker said "I'm a veterinarian, therefore I can drive like an animal".
Suddenly I realized how many proctologists are on the road.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Do schools today teach children that many black muslims in Africa captured and sold young black Africans to the English into slavery?
Do they teach that it is still going on today, young black Africans getting sold as slaves into middle eastern countries and Europe?
Are we so privileged in America that we have the luxury to be offended at songs and flags, without knowing the true stories behind them?
It's not the peoples fault, but an insidious evil in this world that seeks to deceive and keep people in darkness to use us all as pawns for their power, wealth and control.
May God save us all. Peace.
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Sheeesh. i really think it would be good to let this go. So many white folks speaking for feelings we haven’t and will never experience is IMO the height of presumption. I’ll throw myself in that mix since I responded earlier. Please. This forum by design is supposed to be about music - music subjects not related to BiaB.
Our albums and singles are on Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music, YouTube Music, Pandora and more. If interested search on Janice Merritt. Thanks! Our Videos
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Your proposal sounds most wise. This has a real possibility of heading to the dark side in a hurry.
Keith
2026 Audiophile Windows 11 RYZEN THREADRIPPER 3960X 4.5GHZ 128 GB RAM 2 Nvidia RTX 3090s, Vegas,Acid,SoundForge,Izotope Production,Melodyne Studio,SONAR,3 Raven Mtis
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I am Cherokee and not white. I have lots of Black friends whom I love and we have discussed these issues. I never said I was speaking for them individually, I was just pointing out deficiencies in our education system and collusion of politicians. I did not say anything negative about my beloved friends and brothers. The question was about the song Dixie whether it was okay to sing it or not.
So let's all stick our heads in the sand and not acknowledge or upset the dark side. Let's be sheeple and not rock the boat. These issues are universal to the human race and our 1st amendment does allow us to talk about these issues. Let's not acknowledge that slavery is still happening today. Let's not acknowledge that our education system is failing our young people. Even John Lennon wrote a song "Women are the [*****] of the World". Is this not okay to sing today?
Enough said. People reveal who they are by their comments.
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hmmmm I was born, raised,and began guitar IN Johnstown PA same city that Joe Pass learned and got his professional start in, in SPITE of it being Johnstown! LOL
Surprised how many of us were "spawned" in and around that area (SW PA)
Me, I am quit happy to be FROM (i.e., not there) Johnstown.
Larry
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