PG Music Home Forums PG Music Product Forums Band-in-a-Box for Windows Brush drum kit GM 41 not correct on Yamaha Clavinova

Since one month I am the owner of the Yamaha Clavinova CVP-705. I like to use midi styles from Biab 2018 as musical accompaniment for my piano play. The most styles I use are jazz with brushes, the GM 41 brush kit. I save the song to midi files. However, the CVP-705 plays some voices of the drum kit different. The issue is that the Hand Clap that is played instead of brush.

I figured out that the Brush Kit is usually the same as the Standard Drum Kit with the following three exceptions:

Note #38 is a Brush Tap instead of a Snare Drum.
Note #39 is a Brush Slap instead of a Hand Clap.
Note #40 is a Brush Swirl instead of a Snare Drum.

Some Yamaha synths use a somewhat different map for the brush sounds. On these synths:

Note #25 is a Brush tap.
Note #27 is a Brush Slap.
Note #26 is a Brush swirl.

I hope that some members on this forum are familiar with this issue and are able to tell me how I an solve this.

Jan,

1. Go into "Options | Preferences | Midi Driver" (#1 on the below image).

2. Click on the button I've labelled #2.

3. Scroll down to the "Yamaha" instruments and select one of those.

While there is no CVP705 listed, it might be that one of the other Yamaha PAT maps will do the job. They're worth trying. If none work, then Notepad can be used to create a PAT file (i.e a midi Patch Map) for the CVP705.

Regards,
Noel

Thanks Noel. I will try this afternoon. Btw: I dont see images.

Apologies Jan. All fixed now

Thanks Noel. I have tried all the Yamaha instruments. Changes should be saved in mysetup.dk. But there are no changes made, still Roland MT32 kit. The Yamaha .pat files looks good but I can't get them loaded.

Hi jan

This may well work for you:
Once you have finished your song in BIAB and exported to midi.
Bring it into the clavinova, then change the drum kit as below,

This is from my web site Technical Articles section see link at bottom of page.

How to save changes made in the mixing consol to midi files / songs.

As this question comes up time and time again on the various Yamaha keyboard forums I thought it might be useful to include this in this section of my web site.
This will work for most recent Yamaha keyboards that use this operating system Including amongst others the Tyros range PSR 700 710 900 910 CVP 300 400 500.600, 700.


Select the song you want to change
Press the mixing con button multiple time until you see all 16 channels 1 to 8 and 9 to16 two pages .
Make changes in the mixing consol voices pan vol etc, use buttons C, D, and E.
With the song at the beginning
Press Function /digital record menu / song creator
Tab to channel
Use A>B buttons to scroll to SETUP
Make sure you select the boxes for what you want to save
Press EXICUTE button D and wait until it says complete
Then save button I, as same name to overwrite or new name to keep original
It will probably try to save to user, so make sure you navigate to where you want to save . If you want to save over the original you must navigate to it at this stage .It will still be highlighted.
You could of course save to user and then copy and paste to where you want after.
When in the correct place and name press SAVE at bottom of screen button Lower 6

This writes all your changes as a system exclusives to the header of the song /midi file and can also include things like your vocal harmony / score settings for a song

Mike
Rev 14-03-11

Thanks Mike. I followed up your instructions, but my CVP-705 shows other menu structure. The mixing is no problem. I could find song creator with setup button. But I have to choose in "channel edit" a target channel. Is that the drum channel 10? After setup I saved the song. No changes! The brushes kit have still claps instead of brushes.

-----------

The clap is on the Eb1 note. On the keyboard the Eb1 is a brush sound and Eb2 is the clap ??

If all else fails and you have a DAW a workaround is put the MIDI drum track in your DAW and put each drum on it own track. Some DAWs can do this automatically while in others you must copy the drum kit many times and delete the drums you do not want on each track. Since you know what MIDI notes you have to change You can copy the drum track 3 times. In the three copied tracks delete all but the note you want to change and then change it to the correct note. After that is done then delete the three notes in the original track and merge all four tracks. You may have to input the entire song in your DAW prior to doing this if your Yamaha can input only one MIDI file at a time.

I know this is a PITA but it works.

Hi Mario. Thanks for your reply. I know I can change it in a DAW. I don't have one. For years I used Cubase but not anymore. I am know in a period of my life I only want to play piano with Biab midi files as musical accompaniment, mostly jazz styles with brushes. I am using Biab for many years but just the RealStyles. I can use the RT's as wav or mp3 but sometimes I want to change voices or drum kit, so I need midi files.

I did not expect Biab was not able to save midi files with the right GM/GS/XG drum kits for my Clavinova CVP-705.

But I hope there are still other solutions without working with a DAW. Maybe a good midi editor or converter.

HI Jan

Shame that did not work for you I guess the os is slightly different for the 700 cvp as they have touch screens .
Yes the drums use ch 10

The nearest pat file on BIAB would be the Yamaha Tyros this should give you the correct drum maps for the cvp and most of your cvp upper bank voices .
You will of course have to select them via the BIAB mixer. Once the pat file is loaded use the down arrow at the rh end of the mixer track to make you voice and drum selections on the respective parts,

Thanks Mike I will try later.

Are you running build 512? There was a patch map error with drums that was addressed in build 509.

http://www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htm

Also to save to configuration files (mysetup.dk and intrface.bbw), BIAB needs to be running in Administrator mode. This is different from logging into Windows as 'Admin'.

To run in administrator mode...

1. exit BIAB

2. right-click on the BIAB starup shortcut

3. select "Run as administrator

Regards,
Noel

• my latest song: So Beautiful

That's the problem. I can't load the .pat file. Message:
OK to install Yamaha Tyros patch/drum notes from
E:\--\--\synthkits\GENMIDI.DK file.



That DK file is not updated with Tyros patch but still has the default Roland MT32 Kit.

Hi Noel, I run 512. Still same issue.

In RealBand the midi file plays a correct drum track. In the drum window the Eb3 note sounds like a brush slap but the clap icon is moving.

The Brush Kit is usually the same as the Standard Drum Kit with the following three exceptions:

Note #38 is a Brush Tap instead of a Snare Drum.
Note #39 is a Brush Slap instead of a Hand Clap.
Note #40 is a Brush Swirl instead of a Snare Drum.

Some Yamaha synths use a somewhat different map for the brush sounds. On these synths:

Note #25 is a Brush tap.
Note #27 is a Brush Slap.
Note #26 is a Brush swirl.

Question: why do I hear on my CVP-705 the clap and not the Brush Slap.

I go to sleep now to get fresh energy to solve this issue, I hope with the knowledge en experience of the members on this form.

Hi Jan

You may well need to include a system exclusive in your midi file to force the Yamaha keyboard into XG mode this will ensure that the keyboard plays Yamaha XG drum sets.
This is why I originally suggested editing on the Clavinova as this would have put this in at least, as it had been resaved on a Yamaha

You will need to be able to see the midi event list including System Ex and add this on after any others at the beginning of the file.


3. Yamaha XG reset (Understood by all Yamaha XG instruments)
Sys-Ex String: F0 43 10 4C 00 00 7E 00 F7

You must use caps as this is in hex!

If this is all new to you there is a brief explanation of Sys Ex below:

"Sys-Ex" explained clearly
For those of you new to midi data and venturing into editing in sequencer progs for the first time.
I thought a short explanation of System Exclusive (Sys-Ex) may be helpful .
Those of you that already know all this please forgive me for teaching you to suck eggs.

Sys-Ex strings are as their name implies messages to midi devices (including keyboards) that are only understood by a specific
device or manufacturer (/model in some cases)
If your Keyboard doesn’t recognize it as one of its own it will ignore it and not bother to read it. This is essential to stop keyboards
becoming confused by data they don’t know what to do with.
Having just said that ,A few kinds of Sys-Ex strings are understood by almost every instrument or MIDI-device, some of these are:

1. GM Reset (understood by every GM-compatible instrument)
Sys-Ex String: F0 7E 7F 09 01 F7

2. Roland GS Reset (Understood by all Roland GS instruments)
Sys-Ex String: F0 41 10 42 12 40 00 7F 00 41 F7

3. Yamaha XG reset (Understood by all Yamaha XG instruments)
Sys-Ex String: F0 43 10 4C 00 00 7E 00 F7

So what do they mean and how does the device know it’s for say a Yamaha kb.
You will have noticed that messages are in fact in Hexadecimal (don’t Worry)
Most documentation will show in the form (nnH) I will not bother with the H just remember we are talking Hex

ALL Sys-Ex start FO (F null) This means that the following will be in Sys-Ex Format

All Sys-Ex end F7 This means end of Sys-Ex and if checksum is right execute command.

The second pair of numbers are normally the manufactures id See list below For some!
Gm Reset above 7E is universal.

40H Kawai Musical Instruments Mfg.Co.,Ltd
41H Roland Corporation
42H Korg Inc.
43H Yamaha Corporation
44H Casio Computer Co.,Ltd.
46H Kamiya Studio Co.,Ltd.
47H Akai Electric Co.,Ltd.
48H Victor Company Of Japan,Ltd
4BH Fujitsu Ltd
4CH Sony Corporation
4EH Teac Corporation
50H Matsushita Electric Industrial Co.,Ltd.
51H Fostex Corporation
52H Zoom Corporation
54H Matsushita Communication Industrial Co.,Ltd.
55H Suzuki Musical Instruments Mfg.Co.,Ltd.
56H Fuji Sound Corporation Ltd.
57H Acoustic Technical

The third pair of numbers is The model id Not used by all manufacturers

The forth pair is The device id and is used to show which device in your system should receive the message if say you had 2
keyboards from the same manufacture connected via midi.
There is also one special device id 7FH this is often known as a broadcast
It means that every device in your system will receive the message.
This is the end of the part of the message to determine which device the message is for.

The rest of the message
This part contains the 'real' Sys-Ex data. Consists of a variable amount of bytes, depending on the setting you want to change.
The data that is needed here is different for every instrument. You will have to use your manual for this. Look up in the tables
what you want to do and place those bytes here.

Followed By The Checksum
This is also a part of Sys-Ex that not every manufacturer uses. The checksum is used as a control number that the instrument uses
to determine if the message is received correctly. If the received checksum does not correspond with the number the instrument has
calculated Itself, then the message is ignored and nothing changes. This is to prevent unwanted changes. Unfortunately the way the
checksum is calculated is also different for almost every manufacturer.

Ok hope you find some of this useful. But you should be able to tell from the above at least if the Midi file was intended for your
make of keyboard.
Roland Files for the GS set contain amongst other things an all notes off message after each note, sent as midi events cntr this can
cause havoc on some keyboards. So at least you will know what to expect if the second pair of numbers (byte) is41H.

I have not gone into the full technical detail of Hex, as you don’t need to know this to use the above information, and I don’t want
to post info on here that is over the top with technical detail.

The Model ID is not used by all manufacturers. For example Roland uses it in Their Sys-Ex format: Model ID 39H is a D-70,
Model ID 16H is a D-110.
Yamaha do not often use a Model ID in his Sys-Ex format. But it is used for the Clavinova compliance and is 73H
Therefore a sysex starting F0 43 73 will only be read by a Yamaha Clavinova.
Mike Head Rev 06-09

Thanks Mike. Very Interesting. I will try after diner. By reading your text I got an idea. In Biab-preferences-midi options you can use the option "send gm/xg mode on at startup". Are the results the same as your answer?

Hi Jan

Not certain if that will hard write the instruction into the midi file ,or just send it to a XG vsti in BIAB if you have one loaded for that session but worth a try.
Then look at the midi events list for that song I think there is a view sys ex option in BIAB

Jan, I just checked the users manual for your Clavinova. It has a Line In jack. Just park your laptop next to the keyboard, plug the audio out into your line in and play Biab from the laptop. The sound will come out of the Clavinova's speakers and you have a mix control for the volume or you can control the volume from the laptop. No need for any of this head banging midi crap.

If you don't have a laptop or it's not convenient to do this then render your Biab songs to MP3 or WMA files, put them into your phone and plug the phone into the Clavinova using adapter plugs.

Bob

Hi JAZZMAMMAL

Quote “ No need for any of this head banging midi crap.”

Please do not call my post crap .what an argumentative chap you are lately

Yes there is always another way, but the original question was about midi !
It may well be that Jan wanted to export a Yamaha compatible midi via usb to load in the keyboard as a midi file .
Mike