|
Log in to post
|
Print Thread |
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,122
Expert
|
OP
Expert
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,122 |
Anyone have any idea as to the frequency range of an octave? Say the difference between middle C and the C above middle C. How many hz or Mhz etc. Or how would I determine that?
Thanks
Rob\
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 169
Apprentice
|
|
Apprentice
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 169 |
A higher octave doubles the one below it. I don't know the exact frequency offhand of middle C, but that would be easy to Google.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 8,333
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 8,333 |
I'd suggest this technical read as a start. A to A might be easier to figure out. A440 being the benchmark at this time for most Western Music. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pitch_%28music%29
John Conley
Musica est vita
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502 |
Octave up is double the frequency.
Of course, then two octaves up would be 2X the frequency, etc.
To go downward one octave from any freq. it would be halving the frequency.
Does not matter what the original frequency really is, whether it is the Tempered Scale, whether or not it is referenced to A-440, or if it is just a lone sine wave at a frequency that is not a standard musical note, the same division applies. An example of that would be audio filter design, in which one of the specifications would be the frequency rolloff of the filter, listed in decibels/octave. For example, most audio engineers agree that the 6db/octave filter rolloff is the most "musical" sounding approach. etc.
This applies to more than just the audio spectrum also, in days gone by now it was even used to describe radio frequencies and still today in some physics it is good to use the octave designation sometimes to indicate the frequency divisions of harmonics and the like.
--Mac
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,296
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,296 |
Not meaning to confuse things further, but pianos have a special problem which requires "stretch tuning" to make them sound in tune with themselves. The higher notes are tuned slightly sharp and the lower notes slightly flat. Of course this means that the pitch ratio in an octave is no longer exactly two (the use of the word "two" rather than 2.00 is intentional for mathematical reasons - "two" is exact, 2.0000000 etc, is never exact). One of the best references I've found on this is on a guitar site (the problem also occurs with guitars, but to a lesser extent). http://www.doolinguitars.com/intonation/intonation5.htmlSince there are quite a few guitarists on this site, they may find this site interesting. Glenn
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502 |
Well, Stretch Tuning is not done to "make them sound in tune with themselves" but one would have to experience a dead-on-the-tempered-scale tuning to understand what's going on there. The Stretch generates a slight chorusing effect which helps the piano sound, well, like Piano. But the amount of Stretch is only a few beats, or cents off of the target and the A above middle C should be referenced dead on the 440 in all but the older pianos with pinblock problems. The amount of pitch difference due to stretch is so minimal that it isn't an intonation problem. If the stretch tune is done properly for the type of piano. There's a different stretch for Grands of different sizes, as well as a different stretch for the Console, for the Upright, for the Upright with Grand harp, and an entirely different stretch for the Spinet. There are even stretch methods for the lowly Rhodes pianos. In the case of any of them, the intent is to get that slight chorusing effect and not really a retune from Tempered Scale at all. How to tell: A piano that is tuned "dead on" the Tempered Scale, with no stretch, sounds and plays like an "Ice Cream Truck" xylophone. I know this because, when, as a kid still in High School, I saved up my money and got my hands on a Stroboconn and a Piano Tuning toolkit. Let the learning (and the irate Daddy, boy was he mad) begin...  The Digital Stroboconn I use today can store the stretch tables for various pianos in it. Also you can store custom stretch or have it simply memorize a piano with the mic so that you can easily go back and put that particular piano "back to rights" quickly. The piano tuners of the world never had it so good. --Mac
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 22,167
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 22,167 |
I was told that a perfectly tuned piano (according to math) would make the octaves blend in as harmonics and make the distinct note 'disappear' a bit, so the stretch tuning is done to keep the notes distinct and clear. (as Mac said - 'not to be in tune with itself') Not sure how true this is in apllication, but this was from a guy that tuned pianos for a living. Back when you could make a living doing that! Sounds reasonable enough to me.. close enough explanation? Here's a chart to answer the original post question - http://www.phy.mtu.edu/~suits/notefreqs.html
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 8,021
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 8,021 |
If it was mathematically tuned you could only play in one key. The one it was tuned for
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,122
Expert
|
|
OP
Expert
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,122 |
Thanks guys, very informative, didn't even think about googling the darn thing.  Rob
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,689
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,689 |
The guy who tunes my piano gets his main business from the Las Vegas casinos. I am amazed that he never uses a meter and I don't recall ever seeing him use a tuning fork for a starting reference.
Don S.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,913
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,913 |
Rob, I have the fundamental frequencies of each note on the scale saved in an excel file in my phone/PDA. I can probably send this to you if you like. Here's a wikipedia article on the topic that can get you started: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piano_key_frequenciesIt can help if I'm debugging a feedback issue, don't have access to an analyzer, but do have access to a synth with a sine-lead output. It helps to match up with where in a graphic EQ to notch something out. Normally I can do this by ear as I have fundamental frequencies of octave bands sort of 'memorized' and I can localize to just a few bands on an EQ at the first go. To Don's point, I have started a small piano tuning business. I tune the middle octaves as best I can with a tuner on the middle string, then by ear on the two sides. Then outer octaves I do strictly by ear. Here's a couple clips of the very first two pianos I tuned last year: http://rockstarnot.rekkerd.org/misc/COTB_before_and_after_tuning.mp3http://rockstarnot.rekkerd.org/misc/story_clark_before_after.mp3I played the 2nd clip, the first clip was my kid's piano teacher playing her piano. Each one is unique and each one had some bum tuning pegs that I couldn't get to stay tuned. There's a special tool for those to tap the peg into the block - cross threading it a bit into the wood. I don't have that tool. Still learning, still acquiring tools.
Last edited by rockstar_not; 12/03/09 12:47 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 8,333
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 8,333 |
The guy who teaches piano tuning at the listing below, plays Eb horn in my brass band, and tunes my piano, for $100. Every January. If you know someone who's looking for a really cool career in music: http://www.pianotech.uwo.ca/My wife is a graduate of the music school at the same University.
John Conley
Musica est vita
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,122
Expert
|
|
OP
Expert
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,122 |
Yep, I got the info I needed for my wife off the wiki site. Some trick question for a continuing ed test for her hearing dispensing license. thanks
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,926
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 3,926 |
Quote:
The guy who tunes my piano gets his main business from the Las Vegas casinos. I am amazed that he never uses a meter and I don't recall ever seeing him use a tuning fork for a starting reference.
Don S.
Pitch memory is a blessing and a curse. Maybe more the latter.
I had a piano tuner once who told me he couldn't listen to violin music because it was "all out of tune."
Having a gift doesn't always mean that you'll be able to enjoy it.
R.
"My primary musical instrument is the personal computer."
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502 |
Quote:
If it was mathematically tuned you could only play in one key. The one it was tuned for
That describes the situation that results when using the math, but does not apply here because we use the Tempered tuning in modern times almost exclusively.
It is a different thing from the Stretch Tuning of the piano, which is almost always going to be based on the Tempered Scale.
--Mac
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 8,333
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 8,333 |
It took me 4 years to get over playing on G horns and Bflat horns. I'd see the note and hear something different. YIKES!
John Conley
Musica est vita
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502 |
Quote:
Each one is unique and each one had some bum tuning pegs that I couldn't get to stay tuned. There's a special tool for those to tap the peg into the block - cross threading it a bit into the wood. I don't have that tool. Still learning, still acquiring tools.
Another method is to use a small hypodermic needle to put some water laced with glycerin into the wood immediately surroungind the loose pin and then be patient, wait for the wood to swell a bit. Wait overnight on the really loose ones, a bit of rust on the peg plus the swelled pinblock wood right next to it can work wonders. Use this on older pianos that may have just dried out. For a newer piano, it shouldn't slip, and if it does, the pin hammering method is the way to go.
--Mac
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,296
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 2,296 |
I have a friend that rebuilds/restores grand pianos.
He usually replaces loose pins with oversize ones. I watched him doing it a few days ago. Boring job.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 5,261
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 5,261 |
Martin
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Off-Topic
|
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,913
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,913 |
Quote:
I have a friend that rebuilds/restores grand pianos.
He usually replaces loose pins with oversize ones. I watched him doing it a few days ago. Boring job.
Very punny!
I would actually get a zen-like pleasure from that type of job - but the tool set needed to be a fully qualified piano technician is quite huge. All of these special wrenches and screwdrivers etc. to get up and around and over and beside all of the various mechanisms for different types and brands of pianos - and these guys really don't get paid all that well.
That reminds me to try to find my big catalog from some place in Chicago area. I haven't seen it since my move to CO. Hmmm.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: VST3 Plugin Support
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® now includes support for VST3 plugins, alongside VST and AU. Use them with MIDI or audio tracks for even more creative possibilities in your music production.
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Macs®: VST3 Plugin Support
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: Using VST3 Plugins
Join the conversation on our forum.
Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Mac Videos
With the release of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac, we’re rolling out a collection of brand-new videos on our YouTube channel. We’ll also keep this forum post updated so you can easily find all the latest videos in one convenient spot.
From overviews of new features and walkthroughs of the 202 new RealTracks, to highlights of XPro Styles PAK 8, Xtra Styles PAKs 18, the 2025 49-PAK, and in-depth tutorials — you’ll find everything you need to explore what’s new in Band-in-a-Box® 2025.
Reference this forum post for One-Stop Shopping of our Band-in-a-Box® 2025 Mac Videos — we’ll be adding more videos as they’re released!
Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Mac is Here!
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac is here, packed with major new features and an incredible collection of available new content! This includes 202 RealTracks (in Sets 449-467), plus 20 bonus Unreleased RealTracks in the 2025 49-PAK. There are new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 4, two new sets of “RealDrums Stems,” XPro Styles PAK 8, Xtra Styles PAK 19, and more!
Special Offers
Upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac with savings of up to 50% on most upgrade packages during our special—available until July 31, 2025! Visit our Band-in-a-Box® packages page for all the purchase options available.
2025 Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK Add-ons
We've packed our Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK with some incredible Add-ons! The Free Bonus PAK is automatically included with most Band-in-a-Box® for Mac 2025 packages, but for even more Add-ons (including 20 Unreleased RealTracks!) upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for only $49. You can see the full lists of items in each package, and listen to demos here.
If you have any questions, feel free to connect with us directly—we’re here to help!
Band-in-a-Box 2025 Italian Version is Here!
Cari amici
È stata aggerate la versione in Italiano del programma più amato dagli appassionati di musica, il nostro Band-in-a-Box.
Questo è il link alla nuova versione 2025.
Di seguito i link per scaricare il pacchetti di lingua italiana aggiornati per Band-in-a-Box e RealBand, anche per chi avesse già comprato la nuova versione in inglese.
Band-in-a-Box 2025 - Italiano
RealBand 2025 - Italiano
Band-in-a-Box 2025 French Version is Here!
Bonjour à tous,
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 pour Windows est disponible en Français.
Le téléchargement se fait à partir du site PG Music
Pour ceux qui auraient déjà acheté la version 2025 de Band-in-a-Box (et qui donc ont une version anglaise), il est possible de "franciser" cette version avec les patchs suivants:
BIAB 2025 - francisation
RealBand 2025 - francisation
Voilà, enjoy!
Band-in-a-Box 2025 German Version is Here!
Update Your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 to Build 1128 for Windows Today!
Already using Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Windows®? Download Build 1128 now from our Support Page to enjoy the latest enhancements and improvements from our team.
Stay up to date—get the latest update now!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forums58
Topics84,313
Posts777,611
Members39,616
| |
Most Online25,754
Jan 24th, 2025
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dansk
Deutsch - Windows
Español
Français - Windows
Italiano - Windows
Nederlands
Polski
Português
Svenskt
русский
Japanese
Simplified Chinese
Traditional Chinese
Korean