Yeah, I agree with your comments. I personally think that this is what makes him so good! The imperfections give the listener a sense of equality, unlike others. I will prefer someone to whom I can actually relate, instead of all the fake, perfect and superficial ones. Life is not perfect neither is one's life, they all have to stop portraying it that way!
The reference to Bob Dylan is a good one! Certainly his voice and guitar playing is not great and he put out some stuff that I would consider half baked in terms of today's standards.
Dylan is of a different place in time. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely admire what he has has delivered. He is more poetic than musical though. However, we surely can't believe that if it worked for Dylan, then it's alright to use the same approach and 40+ years later it will still be OK for everyone else too.
The inference from Graham's video is that a music writer in this century should be prepared to just chuck it out there, imperfections and all, because they shouldn't be bothered to spend the time to improve it to the best of their ability. Don't worry about the quality, as long as there is regular quantity, you fans will continue to savor the moments.
We're not talking George Martin or Quincy Jones here. How does this one person dictate 'The New Rules Of the Music Industry'? What absolute nonsense.
Look at it from another approach:
A car manufacturer makes fantastic looking sporty new cars. The manufacturer churns them out in masses - because to them, quantity is more important. Management decide they don't have to pay much attention to quality, everyone will buy them because they produce them cheaply in great numbers. They're always available. When the customer drives them, they don't handle well, the seats are uncomfortable and the air conditioning doesn't work. The manufacturer could have spent time improving the model but just expected the masses to love their cars because they got them to the market quickly. What did the manufacturer do? The manufacturer just embraced imperfection.
You are unwell, and go to the doctor. He can't be bothered diagnosing your ailment too carefully and has a heap of patients in the waiting room, so just gives you a quick checkup and tells you to take two days off work and rest. What did that doctor do? He just Embraced Imperfection.
Am I singing Graham's latest song?
Any professional should strive to deliver the best they can.
That self-promoting YouTube video is just encouraging the music industry that it's OK to deliver junk.
BIAB & RB2025 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
FWIW - Many times I will take a first recording even if it has a wort or two over one that has been polished to a dull track. I'll take emotion over perfection most of the time. YMMV
I get most of my exercise these days from shaking my head in disbelief.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
Nobody here is talking about Bob Dylan. We are talking about Joe Smith (John's brother). Every time a discussion like this comes up people start pointing to firmly established stars as their example. That is NOT apples to apples.
Much the same way I used to have people tell me, after saying "I'm too old for this stuff", that Paul McCartney is in his 70s. Well, hurrah for Paul. If your believe your metaphor connecting one of the most famous songwriters and performers in the history of songwriters and performers to some shlub in Cleveland that nobody has ever heard of and doesn't care about, then it holds water. McCartney was more famous by age 22 than I ever dreamed of being.
So, on topic, Dylan could release a CD of nursery rhyme covers and the Dylan cultists would buy millions of copies. He doesn't HAVE to impress anybody anymore. And you can take ANY major star and put their name in that statement. "They" are not relevant to "us". Compare THIS fat old short guy in Ohio to other fat old short guys. Doesn't it follow that for THIS fat old short guy to sell more units than the other fat old short guys, THIS fat old short guy has to write better songs and perform them better than the other fat old short guys? Turning out half finished work blends me into the gray when I need to be shimmering white to get attention.
And for the record, I don't own even one Dylan album. I am not that great a fan. I recognize, but not idolize, his writing. Success is usually relative to the time in which it was achieved. This is 2018.
And for another thing, at one time he was Joe Smith.
So try and stay on track dude before you go on another cranky rampage.
And for another thing, Clarence Clemons put down the best sax solo ever recorded in rock history. Says who? Me. And Bruce. That's who.
Say anything else or argue anymore about that and I will show up at your house with a truck full of drunken rednecks who like Bruce. They don't fight clean.
Now that we have that out of the way, when are we going to record our next song Eddie?
It has been like 4 weeks. Do you have writer's block or something?
David Snyder Songwriter/Renaissance Man Studio + Fingers
Yes, it's an excellent book: Michael Caine - Acting in Film: An Actor's Take on Movie Making. It made me re-think about him as an actor, and acknowledge that at the end of the day, he - like everyone else - is just trying to make a living.
Graham's point is that you're now required to be self-marketing, and the current market demands that artists keep bored consumers engaged by constantly providing fresh content.
You're no longer a musician first - you're a brand, and the content that you provide is what creates loyalty. This loyalty can be monetized once you've got something that you want to promote, such as an album to sell, or a concert to attend.
What he's suggesting is considering using your unfinished and unpolished material as content to provide in creating your brand.
This means that you can share stuff that's not yet finished, or release partial songs. You can release singles instead of waiting for the album to be completed.
What this gives you is a larger stream of content to provide to your audience. The beauty of this approach is that you turn existing content (rough mixes, incomplete songs) into new content.
Got a video of the band rehearsing? A rough version of your song with temporary lyrics? A rough mix of a song? All of these are brand-building content.
At the end of the day, you can still release a polished, finished product. But in the mean time, you've kept your bored, content-hungry consumers happy, attentive, and engaged. Loyal customers spend money on your products.
He also gives the advice of not spending time making improvements that - sorry to say - no one is going to hear. Obvious benefits include actually getting things done, and moving on to new things so you get better.
The point about Dylan is that he is not an up and comer who needs to care about how his latest is received. Anything he does after 50 years is going to sell
And what I am working on right now, trust me, you want NO part of this monumental piece of crap!! LOL!
The goal for 2018 was to write songs of different styles that I have never done with RB before. There was the jazz tune, before that the big band piece, there is a disco song in progress, and a trance/industrial. There will also be reggae at some point.
When I sit down anymore I have to remind myself "NOT country on this one." I am also trying to write a piece with movements like a true symphony. If Jimmy Webb can do it, so can I.
After all of this very entertaining group of posts, when I read about someone basically saying, "Don't worry about perfection just get it out there", what he means is perfect to YOU not to anyone else.
That is the big issue with creative people. We all can come up with something decent, record, mix, master and it's done. Then we listen to it. And again, and again and every time we listen we hear something. Oh crap, I should have done this, that or whatever.
That's when you make the fatal mistake: You go in and start changing it. DON'T DO THAT.
That's what I think Graham means when he says don't worry about making it perfect.
After all of this very entertaining group of posts, when I read about someone basically saying, "Don't worry about perfection just get it out there", what he means is perfect to YOU not to anyone else.
That is the big issue with creative people. We all can come up with something decent, record, mix, master and it's done. Then we listen to it. And again, and again and every time we listen we hear something. Oh crap, I should have done this, that or whatever.
That's when you make the fatal mistake: You go in and start changing it. DON'T DO THAT.
That's what I think Graham means when he says don't worry about making it perfect.
Bob
I agree with this sentiment as well. We already know that music is subjective. That is why there are so many genres out there. Just because we find something imperfect or flawed in our own content doesn't mean someone else will see the same issues as we do.
I am going to agree with Bob on this. And of course to Herb's point, we should tune our guitars. And try and sing on pitch IF we can.
BUT--I learned a lesson on this a long time ago. I wrote a certain song and some people said "Man, that gave me goosebumps. It was kind of lo fi, and it wasn't by the book, but dang, it was strong."
Then a group of song evaluators had a long list of things I needed to do and change. I did it. Finally, after about 11 versions they said it was "professional" now. I let my friends listen to it.
They said: "Man, they took a beautiful thing and turned it into garbage."
They were right. I couldn't live with myself until I deleted the professional version and went back to the very first one where I sounded like I meant it.
Sometimes sounding like you mean it is everything, and sometimes you can fiddle around with stuff WAY too much.
So if that is what Bob is saying, I say, yeah.
David Snyder Songwriter/Renaissance Man Studio + Fingers
If you can sing in tune and you can accompany yourself on an acoustic (in tune) instrument to an acceptable level and you are sincere about what you are delivering, then (most) people will love it. So why not put it out for the world to enjoy even if it is not perfect.
Depends on your goals. If you are trying to break into music as a career or maintain one you should avoid releasing less than perfect work unless you have an angle. For example, John Prine released his original rough recordings in a collection but he waited 40 years to do so! Had he released those instead of the haybale album I suspect it might have limited his ultimate success.
Of course, on the practical side, acknowledging that none of us has a snowball's chance in hell of achieving a Prine level success story, maybe just shoveling it out there is just fine! If almost no one is listening I guess the quality is not much of an issue.
Maybe the real trick is doing high quality AND sounding like you mean it!
If you can sing in tune and you can accompany yourself on an acoustic (in tune) instrument to an acceptable level and you are sincere about what you are delivering, then (most) people will love it. So why not put it out for the world to enjoy even if it is not perfect.
video is blocked on copyright grounds.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.com Add nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both.
The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
If you can sing in tune and you can accompany yourself on an acoustic (in tune) instrument to an acceptable level and you are sincere about what you are delivering, then (most) people will love it. So why not put it out for the world to enjoy even if it is not perfect.
video is blocked on copyright grounds.
Click on the title to take you to her YouTube video... Click on her name for more videos... they are not only quite impressive but also seem to fit nicely with the subject of this thread... but then she's just a kid doing her thing... perhaps she doesn't know any better
What a great idea for a thread, JoAnne. Plainly, the video talk has touched a lot of hearts. Retired people like me don't think so much in terms of branding, or even business; but i can say, getting out there and playing in front of people, amusing them, touching their hearts, is a time tested "strategy." With that, please let me briefly share an idea. We all know that in film, now video, so much effort went into clarity, or perfection, I mean be it wide screen 70mm CinemaScope or 1081 high resolution. Especially, big screen theater. Ever wonder why? It's because the object was to create a reality bigger than life, a striking and lasting impression. Walt Disney with his cartoons --- blues bluer than blue, reds redder than red. Genius. Before I drifted away from bothering with it,, I saw Anthony Hopkins in "Silence of the Lambs." I can still see that crazy SOB, glaring through the bars. Now, John is right, Everything has changed. We are looking for something else. Super perfection is not enough. Drama perfected is melo drama -- overdone. How does this relate to music? Well, we listened to the Beatles on high fidelity stereo, and were stunned. Look at the super productions today....how many dancers, how many flashing lights, how much skin, I mean, what does it take? Me, I am in the direction of creating a little Vimeo channel of PD Christian that could be an oasis in the hectic world of content. I have the time, but can't slow down long enough to get it done. (Too connected!)
I'm still hoping somebody will jump in with an operational definition of perfect.
We do adhere to the adage that our best product is not achieved when there is nothing left to add but rather when there is nothing left to take away.
Our albums and singles are on Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music, YouTube Music, Pandora and more. If interested search on Janice Merritt. Thanks! Our Videos are here on our website.
XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs Special Extended Until August 31st!
XPro & Xtra Styles PAKs Special Extended Until August 31st!
The XPro Styles PAKs and Xtra Styles PAKs special offers are now available until August 31st at 11:59pm PDT!
Ready to take your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 experience to the next level? Now’s the perfect time! Expand your style library with XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs—packed with a wide variety of genres to inspire your next musical creation.
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XPro Styles PAKs are styles that work with any version (Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition) of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). XPro Styles PAKS 1-9 includes 900 styles!
Xtra Styles PAKs are styles that work with the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). With over 3,500 styles (and 35 MIDI styles) included in Xtra Styles PAKs 1-20, the possibilities are endless!
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Note: XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Get Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 19 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Listen to demos and order now! For Windows or for Mac.
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 19 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
Don’t miss this chance to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box setup—at a great price!
Mac 2025 Special Upgrade Offers Extended Until August 15th!
It's not too late to upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® and save! We've extended our special until August 15, 2025!
We've added many major new features to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®, including advanced AI tools like the amazing BB Stem Splitter and AI Lyrics Generator, as well as VST3 plugin support, and Equalize Temp. Plus, there’s a new one-stop MIDI Patches Picker with over 1,100 MIDI patches to choose from, all neatly categorized by GM numbers. The MultiPicker Library is enhanced with tabs for the SongPicker, MIDI Patch Picker, Chord Builder, AI Lyrics Generator, and Song Titles Browser, and the tabs are organized into logical groups. The Audiophile Edition is enhanced with FLAC files , which are 60% smaller than AIFF files while maintaining identical audio quality, and now ships on a fast 1TB SSD, and much more!
Check out all the new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® here:
Purchase your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac during our special to save up to 50% off your upgrade purchase and receive a FREE BONUS PAK of amazing new Add-ons. These include the 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK, Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana, Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes, MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano, Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7, Playable RealTracks Set 4, RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark, and more!
Upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and add 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and 20 RealStyles, FLAC Files for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks, Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster, MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster, Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8, and RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe.
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs!
We’ve expanded the Band-in-a-Box® RealTracks library with 202 incredible new RealTracks (in sets 449-467) across Jazz, Blues, Funk, World, Pop, Rock, Country, Americana, and Praise & Worship—featuring your most requested styles!
Jazz, Blues & World (Sets 449–455):
These RealTracks includes “Soul Jazz” with Neil Swainson (bass), Mike Clark (drums), Charles Treadway (organ), Miles Black (piano), and Brent Mason (guitar). Enjoy “Requested ’60s” jazz, classic acoustic blues with Colin Linden, and more of our popular 2-handed piano soloing. Plus, a RealTracks first—Tango with bandoneon, recorded in Argentina!
Rock & Pop (Sets 456–461):
This collection includes Disco, slap bass ‘70s/‘80s pop, modern and ‘80s metal with Andy Wood, and a unique “Songwriter Potpourri” featuring Chinese folk instruments, piano, banjo, and more. You’ll also find a muted electric guitar style (a RealTracks first!) and “Producer Layered Guitar” styles for slick "produced" sound.
Country, Americana & Praise (Sets 462–467):
We’ve added new RealTracks across bro country, Americana, praise & worship, vintage country, and songwriter piano. Highlights include Brent Mason (electric guitar), Eddie Bayers (drums), Doug Jernigan (pedal steel), John Jarvis (piano), Glen Duncan (banjo, mandolin & fiddle), Mike Harrison (electric bass) and more—offering everything from modern sounds to heartfelt Americana styles
And, if you are looking for more, the 2025 49-PAK (for $49) includes an additional 20 RealTracks with exciting new sounds and genre-spanning styles. Enjoy RealTracks firsts like Chinese instruments (guzheng & dizi), the bandoneon in an authentic Argentine tango trio, and the classic “tic-tac” baritone guitar for vintage country.
You’ll also get slick ’80s metal guitar from Andy Wood, modern metal with guitarist Nico Santora, bass player Nick Schendzielos, and drummer Aaron Stechauner, more praise & worship, indie-folk, modern/bro country with Brent Mason, and “Songwriter Americana” with Johnny Hiland.
Plus, enjoy user-requested styles like Soul Jazz RealDrums, fast Celtic Strathspey guitar, and Chill Hop piano & drums!
With your version 2025 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons FREE! Or upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
The 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 33 new RealTracks and 65+ new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 29 new RealTracks and 45+ new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 20 new RealStyles.
Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana
Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes
MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano
Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7
Playable RealTracks Set 4
RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark
SynthMaster Sounds and Styles (with audio demos)
128 GM MIDI Patch Audio Demos.
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyles,
FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster,
Instrumental Studies Set 23: More '80s Hard Rock Soloing,
MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster
Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8
RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Mac!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
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Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Mac!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
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