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Hi guys, I sent Deryk and Kent a list of problems I experience in RB on my system. I'd like to duplicate that here for the resident pros' comments. Anyone seeing these things at home, or are some of them on my end? As the title of the post implies, I'm very happy with RB and have been making great music with it! I would however, love to resolve my issues. Here is an abbreviated version of my email text. I apologize for its length, but I thought I might get some good answers here. You won't benefit from the attachments I sent them. I can attach here if needed.
"...I'm having some RB issues. I'm on a 64-bit Windows 10 machine with 6 cores, using a Focusrite Scarlett 2i2...
First problem is with volume nodes... I opened the track and lo and behold, there were nodes all over the place! The only ones I placed (months ago) were at the tail end to dial out talking on Neil's bass track. One +1 node was placed at the beginning of the bass note fadeout, with one -15 node pulling the talking down. And this isn't the only track where multiple nodes appeared that weren't placed.. It seems that any track that has nodes somehow propagates more and more. I'm not sure that they all actually affect volume, but some certainly do.
A couple of minor things on this feature. 'Cleanup Nodes' doesn't seem to do anything- what is it supposed to do? Also, when an initial node is created, it's a +1. Shouldn't it be 0? Also, more than anything, nodes seem to trigger access violations and necessitate closing the program.
...the Tracks Window are a mouse double-click issue, and the zoom features. Often, when I click on the timeline or track, a track's editing window opens in my face, as if I'd double-clicked the track. I've tried adjusting my mouse's double-click speed. Sometimes, this is squirrely in RB but not always.
Even more squirrely are the zoom buttons, scrolling up or down in either the track order (at left) or the track zoom level (right) with the scroll wheel. I have my scroll wheel set to 3 lines. At times, the Tracks Window will go haywire, swinging wildly from max to min zoom levels when I've only clicked the scroll wheel once or twice. The + and - buttons can do this too. Or the track order may go all the way up and down when I'm carefully clicking the scroll wheel. Bottom line on zooming, it can very hard to set the track visualization so that its beginning and end are fitted in the window. Hope this makes sense. Are these mouse issues, Windows stuff, or RB in your opinion?
Is there no way to actuate Play while a plugin is highlighted? IOW, I have to click back into the Transport section to be able to hit play or the space bar while I'm making changes in the VST window. I'm aware that I can loop a section for this, but...
I find loop troublesome. For instance, when recording with a metronome with loop engaged, the metronome will go off time. Sometimes a track will drop out. Today, the soloed track loops fine but the bg track is stuck in a quick loop of a second or two duration rather than the longer time highlighted. Loop does not seem stable as it could be.
I get a fair amount of crashes with RB with my system. I'd like to see it more stable...
Today, at some point plugins will only partially open.. The VST box can then not be closed, and RB becomes unresponsive and must be closed via Windows Task Manager..."
Best, Warren
Warren A. Keller- Woodwindist/Producer
Spontaneous Groovin' Combustion
Tune 9 Music- SESAC
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RealBand
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Joined: Dec 2017
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Welcome to the land of Delphi! RB is one of the quirkiest programs that I own, and forget about trying to give honest feedback because you'll only get shot down for even thinking about it.
RB is a very capable DAW, but it might not be that capable for you. I gave up trying to use it as a DAW, and I never used the node feature you mention.
It sounds like you need to do a clean install of the software and drivers, because something might be corrupted. I'm also wondering what other 3rd midi drivers/software you might have installed?
I still prefer RB over BB any day.
Edit: I'm sure you also know that it needs to be installed using the Administrator account?
Last edited by CoolBreeze; 04/03/18 12:52 AM.
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Also just wondering, when you set your loops, do you have "Snap to beat" enabled? I know sometimes I'll forget to set it.
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Warren, Just to doublecheck some things that you don't mention. Knowing the answers to the below questions will help give insight. 1. Are you using Realband 2018? 2. Do you have the latest update installed for Realband? - In case you're not aware where to find it, this information is found under "Help | About Realband". The build number will be in brackets after the version year... e.g. 2018 (4) means Realband 2018, build/update #4. RB 2018 is currently up build 5. If you need to get it, it's available at the below link.
http://www.pgmusic.com/support.realband.htm
3. What driver do you use to run your Focusrite? ASIO or MME? 4. If you are using ASIO, is it the Focusrite ASIO or ASIO4ALL or something else? 5. Have you tried setting the audio driver to MME to see if that helps RB behave better? 6. When you start Realband, do you rightclick on the shortcut and select "Run as administrator"? (This is different from starting up Windows as admin. and RB needs to be started using "Run as administrator".) 7. What USB devices, are hooked up to your computer? Regards, Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2026
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6. When you start Realband, do you rightclick on the shortcut and select "Run as administrator"? (This is different from starting up Windows as admin. and RB needs to be started using "Run as administrator".) And to expound upon Noel's comment, you can also right click on the RealBand icon, then click on the Compatibility tab in the popup screen where you can permanently set "run as administrator". That way you don't have to do it every time.
John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 12TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 12TB SATA BB2026/UMC204HD&404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/Notion/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com (under rehosting/construction)
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Run as Administrator
I regularly see advice on this forum to Run as Administrator as the cure for a multitude of issues.
What does this do that "normal" running does not?
If required, why not set as default by PGMusic?
Why do other music and photo programmes that I use appear to function without it?
Regards
Vintage
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What does this do that "normal" running does not? Sometimes you have to make changes to Windows underlying system. While PGMusic doesn't specifically do this, when you spawn a new program from it (such as running DXi/VSTi), that new program may require it. Even if that program normally runs as an administrator, the rights get passed through. So if you launch BIAB without it, then the spawned program doesn't have it either (even if it needs it). There are other examples, but that's one you see quite often. Windows 7 and Windows 10 also protect files in the C:\Windows, C:\Program Files, C:\ProgramData, and other folders; so if something needs to update a file there (even if it's just a log file or saving some setting), you would need administrative privilege to do so. Running as administrator makes doing these things seamless. At least that's my understanding, and I may have gotten some of the details wrong, but pretty sure I got the concept right.
Last edited by jford; 04/03/18 07:20 AM.
John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 12TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 12TB SATA BB2026/UMC204HD&404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/Notion/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com (under rehosting/construction)
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For Another one to watch for is your Audio Temp Directory. This is where RB/PT will often default to a UserName/AppData/Temp directory
Example:
C:\Users\Bob\AppData\Local\Temp\
Guess who has permissions to alter this folder?
Someone signed in to the computer as Bob, or an Administrator.
You can easily tell Windows to run RB/PT as an Administrator all the time, as jford mentioned.
Not so easy to tell it to run as Bob. <grin>
So you can eliminate any permissions issues by running as Administrator. Not 'needed' by everyone, but it eliminates a fair amount of possible weird issues in one easy step.
While these programs do not write to Windows much (etc) during the install, sometimes we forget how much they do rely on the Windows foundation to run (especially at default settings).
It's just an easier, less futzing around 'good habit'. Set it once and forget it.
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Guys, Thanks for this! I hadn't seen these responses. Some comments:
1. Noel and John, Thanks for the suggestion to run as admin. I have selected that in the context menu under Properties/Compatibility. I'll see how it goes!
2. After emailing with Deryk, I upgraded to the latest 2017 version. I'd rolled back to version 4 per suggestions on the forum for other issues. Now in 2017(8) (haven't upgraded to 2018), things are much more stable! I do still get an occasional access violation or some other nuttiness, but much less. I just exit and reopen.
Thanks again!
Best, Warren
Warren A. Keller- Woodwindist/Producer
Spontaneous Groovin' Combustion
Tune 9 Music- SESAC
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This Run as Admin thing has me scratching my head. ALL of my systems have one user. Me. And I'm always the admin. There are no other permissions needed and I've never had any of these issues that are supposedly cured by having to specifically tell a program to "Run as Admin".
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Hi Warren,
I only use RB to generate tracks, sometimes a little editing in there and sometimes to record vocals. I drag it all into Reaper to mix.
I have win 10 and the latest RB and updates. Some of the issues you describe I've had for sure since 2017 maybe longer. Since it's more of an annoyance and going to Reaper anyway, I never took the time to get anyone at PG or here to troubleshoot the problems.
The scrolling goes nuts whenever it feels like it. Up and down really fast until it decides to stop I have no control. I haven't figured out a pattern of when and why. Sometimes I have no scroll bar at all side to side. And the zoom can go as crazy as the up down. The volume nodes are wonky so I avoid them. And my latest crash was yesterday.
Just wanted you to know you are not alone in some of these issues. Please follow up here or send me a pm if you get it sorted. I'd be interested to know how you did it.
Josie
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RealBand
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eddie1261
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eddie1261
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Warren,
3. What driver do you use to run your Focusrite? ASIO or MME?
4. If you are using ASIO, is it the Focusrite ASIO or ASIO4ALL or something else?
Which is correct? I use Focusrite ASIO because it seems to give me the lowest amount of latency. What gets confusing to some (well, to ME at least) is how many places you can set latency. You can make an adjustment in RB and another in the Focusrite setup. That's kind of like volume on a computer when you can set volume in the software player, the computer itself and the speakers. I fought with latency a lot, particularly with MME drivers. I would do vocal parts and listening through the interface as I recorded them, they were right on time. Then during playback they were 4-5 milliseconds late and I had to slide the track down to line it up. Add to that the somewhat ambiguous instruction abut which way to adjust buffers to fix it, and you have a mess. The the OP's issues, when I got the inevitable updates to Windows 10, now on build 1803, I made sure to visit Focusrite and get their Windows 10 specific driver update for my 2i4. A lot of times driver updates are minor and fix a specific condition that not everybody experiences, but in the case of Focusrite and Windows 10, they are critical. I do love my 2i4 because the preamps are really good. Windows 10 really makes you dig to find the right place to adjust your sound card.
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eddie1261
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eddie1261
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I am curious to see answers to this question.
Those who continue to stress "run as administrator", do you have your UAC shut completely off? Because in 99% of all cases, turning off UAC overrides any need to run as administrator. (That UAC may be THE most annoying thing Microsoft ever did. And to have it turned ON by default... grrr.)
Run as administrator has become one of the cliche buzzword fixes for everything, along with update drivers and defrag the hard drive (which, by the way has zero to do with a program's execution - it only speeds the time it takes to load a program into RAM slightly. I have NEVER defragged a hard drive since the NTFS file system became the norm.) and frankly, most generic users don't even know what defragging actually does and what the purpose is. And again I say, it is an older day function. People will say "Oh my computer runs so much better after I defrag" only because they believe it does after spending time running that "magic" process. If you can see the difference between a program loading from hard drive to RAM (from where it actually executes) in 3.4 seconds and 4.1 seconds, my hat's off to you. A large part of those same people also think programs run from the hard drive, which is 100% incorrect. More RAM to cut down the swap file size and number of times the computer needs to use virtual RAM is key, not contiguous file storage. I don't have a computer here with less than 16gb of RAM. My studio computer has 64gb. RAM is so cheap anymore I don't know why people don't load up. That is one place where you see a return on the investment. As long as you match the speed of the RAM, you're golden.
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From my understanding it's because certain host interactions with a VST my require certain access to the file system and/or OS access.
I wondered the same thing, until I ran into the exact issue because of it, and I never looked back. You may never need to do it, until you realize that's why you are having certain problems with a VST.
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Eddie is right. I turned off the UAC along time ago and don't run as admin.
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Eddie is right. I turned off the UAC along time ago and don't run as admin. Well I beg to differ, but if you happen to think that all other DAW users are created in your image, then I'm sorry to say that you're sadly mistaken. Sure you might not run into problems, and because of your setup you can afford to run your machine in that setup. Depending on how you use your machine, that might not be the most ideal scenario, but we all make informed choices. https://www.digitalcitizen.life/uac-why-you-should-never-turn-it-off
Last edited by CoolBreeze; 05/29/18 09:57 PM.
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CoolBreeze,
Thanks for providing the website link to Digital Citizen. I had not come across the site before. I'm finding the site has a lot of interesting articles.
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Thanks Josie- I know I'm not nuts! ;>) Having paid $900 for BIAB/RB Audiophile. it pains me to add and relearn another DAW, but I think I'll eventually do it unless PGM can improve some of the rough spots in an otherwise excellent suite.
Best, Warren
Warren A. Keller- Woodwindist/Producer
Spontaneous Groovin' Combustion
Tune 9 Music- SESAC
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Eddie, I use Focusrite's ASIO driver, and record at a 256 buffer, upping to 512 as I begin to mix down. I have very, very minimal latency.
Best, Warren
Warren A. Keller- Woodwindist/Producer
Spontaneous Groovin' Combustion
Tune 9 Music- SESAC
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