I hope I'm not drifting too far off topic of the difficulty of Biab, but I'll share a few ACW tips that have helped me with that particular tool.
First, a great resource to practice learning how to use the ACW is the Forum's User Showcase songs. Most times, you will have access to the key signature, tempo, style and if necessary you can PM the artist and ask if they really used a certain chord or progression. The ACW is normally quite accurate reading a Biab generated file. It's a great resource to learn about the ACW.
After working with the ACW for a while, you'll learn that the ACW repeats certain errors in reading chords consistently. I've found that D is often interpreted as Asus and Am7 the same for C. I've also found that in certain instances, it is better to use the interpreted chord rather than the actual chord and it's good to experiment with this for the best I can tell, Biab engine will read and select a different audio phrase than from reading the chord as a D. This can be quite pleasing in a musical sense.
Importing midi files of commercial songs is also a great resource to quickly populate the chord chart.
It would be nice if there were commercially printed manuals for all of the software (BB, RB, PTP) we could buy. Book-size, and not like the older, small types. Sell them separately if necessary, but the individual cost of printing manuals from PDF's is quite expensive. More than a published bound version would cost. I don't think there's been a printed manual since maybe 2013.5? Until then, it's switching back and forth on the screen or going through print cartridges, paper jams etc. Just saying, a readable book-sized book would be nice. Or maybe I'm old fashioned. There's still a lot of us around you know. LOL
I’m really lucky. I am inquisitive. I experiment. I tend to read manuals (not the BIAB manual) I look at various WEB sites and videos. This helps me learn things. However, I have found reading what people say on the forums the most helpful.
When it comes to BIAB knowing about the various areas in preferences is a critical thing to learn. There is often settings set in there that present issues when attempting to do something. Another place is the Song settings as well as chord settings and bar settings. Then learning how styles work. Yep, when I think about it BIAB is very complex but to me that is all a part of the fun. Each time I do another song I find it gets better and more enjoyable.
It wasn’t until I started to write this that I even considered BIAB to be complicated. Complex yes, but something as powerful as BIAB needs to be.
Start simple then add more each time as you learn more. I have redone almost every song I did a few years ago as my knowledge of the product increased.
My thoughts
Tony
HP i7-4770 16GB 1TB SSD, Win 10 Home, Focusrite 2i2 3rd Gen, Launchkey 61, Maton CW80, Telecaster, Ovation Elite TX, Yamaha Pacifica 612 BB 2022(912) RB 2022(2), CakeWalk, Reaper 6, Audacity, Melodyne 5 Editor, Izotope Music Production Suite 4.1
I’m really lucky. I am inquisitive. I experiment. I tend to read manuals (not the BIAB manual) I look at various WEB sites and videos. This helps me learn things. However, I have found reading what people say on the forums the most helpful.
When it comes to BIAB knowing about the various areas in preferences is a critical thing to learn. There is often settings set in there that present issues when attempting to do something. Another place is the Song settings as well as chord settings and bar settings. Then learning how styles work. Yep, when I think about it BIAB is very complex but to me that is all a part of the fun. Each time I do another song I find it gets better and more enjoyable.
It wasn’t until I started to write this that I even considered BIAB to be complicated. Complex yes, but something as powerful as BIAB needs to be.
Start simple then add more each time as you learn more. I have redone almost every song I did a few years ago as my knowledge of the product increased.
My thoughts
Tony
Well stated, Tony
I have dyslexia so reading is very difficult for me so I learn by doing. Its not a bad way to learn, especially on complex subjects like Band-In-A-Box.
I certainly have asked a lot of questions on these forums and have made a pest of myself with the patient Support Staff. Your questions will never be flamed or ridiculed in these forums ( unlike so many other sites that seem to ambush new users ).
The tutorials are excellent and walk users through the learning curve. Not only the PG Music tutorials but also the many user tutorials found on YouTube.
Some oldtimers monitor the forums and are quick to throw out a lifeline 24/7.
The only stupid question is the one never asked.
Over the years we have had a few trolls but they don't stay very long. The moderators do an excellent job in keeping us safe and protected almost transparently.
It would be nice if there were commercially printed manuals for all of the software (BB, RB, PTP) we could buy. Book-size, and not like the older, small types. Sell them separately if necessary, but the individual cost of printing manuals from PDF's is quite expensive. More than a published bound version would cost. I don't think there's been a printed manual since maybe 2013.5? Until then, it's switching back and forth on the screen or going through print cartridges, paper jams etc. Just saying, a readable book-sized book would be nice. Or maybe I'm old fashioned. There's still a lot of us around you know. LOL
Mike,
Its possible to keep the manual open in a separate window so it will always be handy and you will never lose your place.
I do. It's the back and forth and being at the mercy of searching content. Guess I'm old school. I still keep double spacing after periods, and all of my graduate school work was done on a manual typewriter. Eeek. Perhaps setting up dual monitors may help.
So many of the pro software publishers have gone to online manuals, understandably. It's just kinda easier to carry a book around during the day to read when a guy gets a break, or to read and study before sleep.
I also have an iPad and I put a copy of the PDF manual into iBooks on that. This will give me plenty to read as I’ll be pretty much incapacitated for the month or so. Confined to a high chair and wheelie walker.
HP i7-4770 16GB 1TB SSD, Win 10 Home, Focusrite 2i2 3rd Gen, Launchkey 61, Maton CW80, Telecaster, Ovation Elite TX, Yamaha Pacifica 612 BB 2022(912) RB 2022(2), CakeWalk, Reaper 6, Audacity, Melodyne 5 Editor, Izotope Music Production Suite 4.1
I started with biab a few months ago and found it easy to lay down a basic setup. That is just the bare bones of a chord progression and a simple arrangement.
Then the going got boggy as it became obvious that much study and experience would be required to get into the next stages.
It really means quite a commitment to use the software and join in the social aspects related to it eg the forums.
Using: Dell 3268 i3, 8 GB ram, windows 10. Biab version 2017 standard package, no extras.
I started with biab a few months ago and found it easy to lay down a basic setup. That is just the bare bones of a chord progression and a simple arrangement.
Then the going got boggy as it became obvious that much study and experience would be required to get into the next stages.
It really means quite a commitment to use the software and join in the social aspects related to it eg the forums.
I agree 100%. It's easy to do the basics of adding Chords to the chordsheet and simple style selection. After that it needs a lot more effort.
I think that PG should emphasise this basic much more WITH REFERENCE TO COVER SONGS. It is much easier to appreciate the potential of BIAB if you use cover songs as an example. Not everyone is a budding songwriter.
I totally agree working with covers first is the best way to learn BUT, PG CAN'T DO IT. It's because of copyrights. There are many, many demo songs that are based on very famous standard tunes but they're not named. PG has to use an unrelated name.
It's the same as the instrument names used by various VST softsynth sound libraries. Various Fender and Gibson guitar names cannot be used because of trademarks so they use something like F hardbody or something. Hammond is a trademark so they use the term "tonewheel organ". A Rhodes is called a tine piano, a Wurlitzer is called a reed piano, stuff like that.
I agree with all the comments here. Biab is both "So easy to use!" and very complex. When the OP says it's not, he thinks it's misleading, that's also not fair at all and I take exception to it. I'm quite a bit tougher than most here. I'm an Air Force vet. It's called suck it up buttercup and get with the program, ya know? If it was that easy, it wouldn't be worth a damn to anybody.
You paid good money for this but that does not include somebody literally holding your hand because you can't figure out the most basic stuff that's right in the manual and in the gazillions of vids out there. This includes the ones created by PG themselves and hundreds of others all over YouTube. I'll ask the OP, you've heard of YouTube haven't you? Just go there and type in band in a box. It's all there man.
Yes, I've been stumped too. Nobody's perfect haha. I hate posting questions here because I consider myself smarter than average and I want to figure it out myself if I can. If I'm stuck then sure I'll post a question but I've done some research about it first.
I printed the manuals, and I realize it's not for everybody, and I hope I'm not in trouble, but I went to CreateSpace, which I already use, and uploaded the pdf, in two parts because it's so long, and created a simple book, 8.5 x11, and printed a proof copy and then let it go at that. It's not for sale, no one else can see it,it's not available on CreateSpace nor on Amazon or anywhere else. It cost me six bucks for a one-time proof, well, twelve altogether.
I printed the manuals, and I realize it's not for everybody, and I hope I'm not in trouble, but I went to CreateSpace, which I already use, and uploaded the pdf, in two parts because it's so long, and created a simple book, 8.5 x11, and printed a proof copy and then let it go at that. It's not for sale, no one else can see it,it's not available on CreateSpace nor on Amazon or anywhere else. It cost me six bucks for a one-time proof, well, twelve altogether.
Marty,
Very creative solution. Kudos!
The core program hasn't really changed much over the years so, after learning to navigate its main features, it is only necessary to learn the newest features each year. That approach will simplify user's lives a lot.
There have been many great suggestions in this thread. Try them before complaining. Devote as much time to this fabulous TOOL as you did to learning your instrument, the rewards are well worth the effort.
That point about the time involved in learning an instrument is very true. It's been talked about here for years. Biab and DAW's are literally instruments unto themselves. It took years to learn to play well, it will take years to get proficient with Biab and other digital audio tools too. Seriously, there are four year degrees in this stuff. The courses are called music production or digital audio production or some such and you need that if you want to work in a studio on the production side.
There's a thread on the Keyboard Corner forum right now titled "A DAW is kicking my [*****]" and it's about Studio One. You can tell the guy is a total noobie to this stuff and the advice there is the same as the advice here. Study, practice, study, more practice. There's a ton of S1 vids on YouTube too.
A thorough and proper understanding of compression or EQ is a study unto themselves that is often omitted from the learning process by newbies, yet they are vital to creating a good production. The same could be said about BIAB. You got back everything that you put into it and more.
(1) If the drums are frozen, part markers will not have any effect. It's necessary to unfreeze the drum track and then regenerated.
I suspect you hit it on the first shot Noel. I would bet a penny that he went into his chord chart, added the part markers, and then hit play without generating. And I guess that because I did that too at first.
Herb made a good point by saying he uses what he needs and doesn't really drive offroad. I do the same thing.
BIAB has a lot of features that I have no use for. ACW, all the pitch training stuff... I have no need for that, and I would guess that a very large percentage of users here don't either. Using me as the example since it is my reply, the notation thing, and that's what I call it because I have never even looked at it, is of no use to me. How do I need to write notation out for? I do 95% of this stuff myself and if I need supporting instruments the people I go to don't need charts. I have perfect pitch so I have no use for pitch training. I find things every day that make me say "Oh. I didn't know it could do that."
Also, your base core of music knowledge matters too. When I sit down to code in the chord chart, it has already been played on my practice keyboard and the chart is written on paper. Knowing the structure of scales and the basic "rules" of chord progression helps a lot. For someone brand new to music at a level where they spend a lot of energy looking to transpose to the key of L it will be more of a challenge than to someone who knows even a little bit of theory. It can be done, but it will be more difficult as that user gains knowledge and experience. The newest of newbies would benefit greatly from having a "circle of 5th" printed out to see the relationship between chords.
But even that same new newbie can create a song in an hour with a little knowledge of chords and how to enter them into the chord chart.
Remember, you are doing something quite similar to learning a new language. And you won't be conversational in a new language for about a year. Or longer, depending in your ability to retain knowledge. You can write A song the day your get BIAB. Whether it is what you are after or not is your call. But every journey starts with that first step.
snip ... Your base core of music knowledge matters too. snip ... Knowing the structure of scales and the basic "rules" of chord progression helps a lot.
For someone brand new to music at a level where they spend a lot of energy looking to transpose to the key of L it will be more of a challenge than to someone who knows even a little bit of theory.
It can be done, but it will be more difficult as that user gains knowledge and experience. The newest of newbies would benefit greatly from having a "circle of 5th" printed out to see the relationship between chords.
Only if they understand what they are looking at Eddie. I'm not sure I clearly understand the circle of fifths or circle of fourths very well. I never heard of them until I was exposed to them in this forum! There have been many times my knowledge of music theory have prevented me from clearly formulating a question or understanding a response.
Eddie made an astute observation which frequently is overlooked in this forum; not every user reads music, understands scales and chord progressions. I believe we (forum members) vastly underestimate the number of new users that want to use Band-in-a-Box as their first, musical instrument; in other words to learn about music.
A niece received an acoustic guitar as a Christmas gift. The first thing she did was go online and watch videos of people playing a guitar. She's learned to place the fingers like so and strum to make a pleasing sound. She has no idea that pleasing sound has a name or what the name is. That's how a lot of the next generation of aspiring musicians are starting out. Many schools do not have music classes. Many families have one parent or both parents work so money and transportation for music lessons are not available. In many ways the nurturing environment many of us enjoyed no longer exists.
Last edited by Jim Fogle; 04/30/1807:45 AM. Reason: added comment.
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