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HTL here is your problem man. You are sweetly playing God and asking us to accept it as best intentions. Why not play along and see if you learn something? As an NSAI coordinator I feel Samuel IS doing modern country or his version of it. So it bothers you that HTL might be presenting himself as an expert yet you flash NSAI credentials as if that makes you an expert? Would the real expert please stand up!  Unless you are a famous producer you have no credentials whatsoever to tell a posting artist what modern country is or is not, in categorical Godlike terms. It is not a case of being a troll dude it is a case of being remarkably presumptuous.
Until you post 100 masterpieces and take off your mask, why would any real artist take you seriously?
Why???
I'm interested in hearing what his ideas are because, well, maybe he is a famous producer or at least knows more than me! I don't really care about the whole expert thing that seems to bother you. I just wanna know more about producing modern songs using BIAB and I have to agree there are things posted that are not as modern as the poster would like to think.
Last edited by JohnJohnJohn; 05/01/18 06:12 AM.
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Well said David. I am hoping HTL will take up my Hot 100 Challenge that I posted in the songwriting forum. I will be working up at least a song or two for it by the end of the week. I again say to this idea, well and good. I've not looked at the thread yet but is a useless endeavor if what will determine if an entry has made the grade or not is not clearly defined. Chart worthiness is useless unless an entry makes a chart. I recently posted links to Cindy Lauper's "True Colors" with updated covers that did make the Chart Worthy Grade in four different decades. A song does not have to be new to be modern. It does have to be relevant to what's being listened to by the masses at whatever the present time is popular. Then we have plenty of artists similar to Ed Sheeran and his song "perfect" that is almost too easy to replicate with a Biab track. It's modern and an accurate cover is entirely accessible to the average Biab user. The quality of production or the write to whether any particular song could be included on a modern hit chart is meaningless if it has no possibility of making such a chart. If a power ranger (Real Music Executive ) has a choice of a really good, quality written and performed modern music example from an unknown Biab forum member and the lastest piece of trash stolen by Robin Thicke and Pharrell, he's going to always choose the trash of the famous - a sure hit with the added advantage of media press for the theft controversy over quality unknown. That's called a risk and the power ranger is not in the business of high stakes risk over positive income. The challenge is a great idea as long if it has defined and legitimate parameters to resolve the issue in a way accepted by all.
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Charlie, I wouldn't say that the current forum users can't do it. They just choose not to.
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I again say to this idea, well and good. I've not looked at the thread yet but is a useless endeavor if what will determine if an entry has made the grade or not is not clearly defined. Chart worthiness is useless unless an entry makes a chart.
The challenge is a great idea as long if it has defined and legitimate parameters to resolve the issue in a way accepted by all. I agree that in order for the challenge to be meaningful we need some agreed upon criteria. And I think covers of old songs by modern artists are poor examples unless completely reworked for modernity (whatever that is.) My point is Ed Sheeran covering a classic with a timeless production shouldn't be our standard. Can we pin down what "modern" means?
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wondering why we are having this conversation yet again. It's already been shown that making modern music is possible using BIAB I don't think everyone agrees with that. I know I have yet to hear anything done in BIAB that sounds like modern charting music. Lots of good tunes being produced but they almost always sound like classic this or that. And maybe, just maybe, the part we are missing is the massive amount of expensive studio production that goes into producing charting modern songs? If so, maybe expecting BIAB to be able to create anything other than the bedrock is unreasonable?
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I agree with JohnJohnJohn, but for the record, "Perfect" by Ed Sheeran is an original by Mr. Sheeran and released in Nov 2017 and reached # 3 on Billboard. The covers I mentioned were, in fact, completely reworded to be modern to the music of their decade. However, even though Cheri Cheri Lady is a modern cover, it does not actually vary far from the original especially in regard to the instrumental cover recently done by Lady Yamaha which musically is similar to the recent remake. That is probably closer to what a Biab user would do in their spare bedroom home recording studio on a Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 and a $50 condenser mic on a Reaper DAW using Biab generated tracks. I agree with Sammy's last statement that most users choose not to record modern music nor do they choose to record any genre music for commercial release and attempt to complete with vocalists like Adele, Ed Sheeran, Justin Timberlake. We can't compete. Not because of talent, ambition but in most cases, we can't compete with the means first tier artists have access to. I recently read a statement regarding a recording budget on line of > $934,000. That was not a mega star's budget. We can make a true commercial viable track in our bedroom and we can make a commercial viable commercial release in our bedroom on $350 studio but the stars will have to truly align for circumstances to fall in place for that release to become an international best seller. It's true that a home recording studio today has higher specs than the Beatles recorded with, or Elvis recorded on but it's not the equipment that makes a star. It's their talent and more so the talent behind them. The musicians, engineers, producers, talent agents, and the generous backing of a major corporation. The Jason Aldean 'Burn It Down' Tour in 2015 had a budget in excess of $1,000,000 to set up, and produce a concert that Jason and his band sounded like their records as they played 'live'. Check out this YouTube video with Jason's FOH engineer go through the console and effects chains to accomplish this. It starts with a SSL L500 console that online today sells used for $68,000. His effects chains process through more than 200 plug ins. Inside the Music of Jason Aldean Seriously, who here on the forum will put the quality of what they produce in their home studio against a major label studio production using the latest state of the art studio facility filled with engineers and producers with years of experience as well as a major music university degree. A studio where the assistants have a major university degree, employees first rate professional back up singers and studio musicians the level the same or higher than Biab session musicians. I do not think PGMusic expects or desires that Brent Mason provide specialized hot leads and licks the same as he would perform on a new Jason Aldean major single release for the top rated nashville producer. PGMusic wants quality generic audio that they can provide to customers around the world. That's why we cut/paste and include our live playing on our releases. That's a major reason we can't compete with the majors. But, take that same scenario and simply replace live session musicians with BIAB tracks leaving everything else intact, yes, it would be no different than the producer receiving tracks recorded in another studio. There's absolutely no reason Sammy Davis may not one day write a song the right ears here and a major studio takes his Biab generated tracks and freshen them up, add in a major league producer and mixer, pro grade backup vocals all running through a $400,000 Neve console and Biab tracks are on an international hit recording. The only current deterrent I see at the moment is I've not heard of a forum member using 200 + plugins into a $68,000 DAW with a grammy award winning vocalist at the helm.....
Last edited by Charlie Fogle; 05/01/18 08:07 AM.
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Defining what modern means is difficult as writers and producers are always trying to push the limit to create something new. In the challenge I posted a link to the Billboard Hot 100 chart and mentioned that if you use a specific song as inspiration to mention it for comparison. I guess what may be best is to choose a song on the chart to emulate with your own original song so that people know what you were trying to do and can see how well the execution of that is done using BIAB.
Last edited by Samuel Davis; 05/01/18 08:06 AM.
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I agree with JohnJohnJohn, but for the record, "Perfect" by Ed Sheeran is an original by Mr. Sheeran and released in Nov 2017 and reached # 3 on Billboard. The covers I mentioned were, in fact, completely reworded to be modern to the music of their decade. However, even though Cheri Cheri Lady is a modern cover, it does not actually vary far from the original especially in regard to the instrumental cover recently done by Lady Yamaha which musically is similar to the recent remake. That is probably closer to what a Biab user would do in their spare bedroom home recording studio on a Focusrite Scarlett 2i2 and a $50 condenser mic on a Reaper DAW using Biab generated tracks. I agree with Sammy's last statement that most users choose not to record modern music nor do they choose to record any genre music for commercial release and attempt to complete with vocalists like Adele, Ed Sheeran, Justin Timberlake. We can't compete. Not because of talent, ambition but in most cases, we can't compete with the means first tier artists have access to. I recently read a statement regarding a recording budget on line of > $934,000. That was not a mega star's budget. We can make a true commercial viable track in our bedroom and we can make a commercial viable commercial release in our bedroom on $350 studio but the stars will have to truly align for circumstances to fall in place for that release to become an international best seller. It's true that a home recording studio today has higher specs than the Beatles recorded with, or Elvis recorded on but it's not the equipment that makes a star. It's their talent and more so the talent behind them. The musicians, engineers, producers, talent agents, and the generous backing of a major corporation. The Jason Aldean 'Burn It Down' Tour in 2015 had a budget in excess of $1,000,000 to set up, and produce a concert that Jason and his band sounded like their records as they played 'live'. Check out this YouTube video with Jason's FOH engineer go through the console and effects chains to accomplish this. It starts with a SSL L500 console that online today sells used for $68,000. His effects chains process through more than 200 plug ins. Inside the Music of Jason Aldean Seriously, who here on the forum will put the quality of what they produce in their home studio against a major label studio production using the latest state of the art studio facility filled with engineers and producers with years of experience as well as a major music university degree. A studio where the assistants have a major university degree, employees first rate professional back up singers and studio musicians the level the same or higher than Biab session musicians. I do not think PGMusic expects or desires that Brent Mason provide specialized hot leads and licks the same as he would perform on a new Jason Aldean major single release for the top rated nashville producer. PGMusic wants quality generic audio that they can provide to customers around the world. That's why we cut/paste and include our live playing on our releases. That's a major reason we can't compete with the majors. But, take that same scenario and simply replace live session musicians with BIAB tracks leaving everything else intact, yes, it would be no different than the producer receiving tracks recorded in another studio. There's absolutely no reason Sammy Davis may not one day write a song the right ears here and a major studio takes his Biab generated tracks and freshen them up, add in a major league producer and mixer, pro grade backup vocals all running through a $400,000 Neve console and Biab tracks are on an international hit recording. The only current deterrent I see at the moment is I've not heard of a forum member using 200 + plugins into a $68,000 DAW with a grammy award winning vocalist at the helm..... This is probably the best overall summary I have read and pretty much nails why, for the most part, our BIAB songs do NOT sound modern and chart-worthy! There is a very good reason labels and artists spend so much on the hits of today and that is to make them sound modern and chart-worthy! I'd love to see more exploration and insights as to how we can move toward modern/chart-worthy tracks and less claims that we are already there (when we clearly are not!) And I definitely think the comments like "Drake's music sucks" and "Anyone could do that in BIAB if they wanted to but we don't want to because that is not 'real' music" are not only wrong-headed but plainly wrong! I look forward to seeing what comes of Sammy's challenge! I wanna learn how to use our tools to make better tracks!
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Charlie, I wouldn't say that the current forum users can't do it. They just choose not to. I would say I'm somewhere in between. I totally think it CAN be done. All I'm saying is I haven't heard it yet...that is my opinion, not a fact. I would like to clarify one thing though. For some reason I get the feeling you keep thinking I am saying it can't be done. That is not my stance AT ALL. Just because I feel it hasn't, doesn't mean I think it can't. Those are two very different positions. I VERY much feel you could do pretty much any style of music with these programs and a little help from others. Last thing...I love your song writing idea. There are a few catches to it; but that's fine. Hopefully someone steps up and either does something of chart caliber or can admit they have a bit more to learn. I think the way you stated it pretty much defines what has to be done. I for one, am not unclear of your meaning. Simple and straight forward. I like it. I'll take conversation about this subject over there.
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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Man this thread is all over the place... I went through about the first 40 of the songs in that list. With the exception of "Perfect", they are all BEATS and LOOPS. That is a job for a DAW - and BEATS and LOOPS. Why anyone would think that BIAB should provide THAT is beyond me. It doesn't make sense. It is the wrong tool. And the vocals are almost always HEAVILY processed... which fits with BEATS and LOOPS... but for a song using BIAB tracks...not so much. Maybe John3 can point out what songs from that list he thinks BIAB should be able to produce?
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Man this thread is all over the place... I went through about the first 40 of the songs in that list. With the exception of "Perfect", they are all BEATS and LOOPS. That is a job for a DAW - and BEATS and LOOPS. Why anyone would think that BIAB should provide THAT is beyond me. It doesn't make sense. It is the wrong tool. And the vocals are almost always HEAVILY processed... which fits with BEATS and LOOPS... but for a song using BIAB tracks...not so much. Maybe John3 can point out what songs from that list he thinks BIAB should be able to produce? Don't get me wrong Floyd, I'm not thinking that BIAB can do all of the work for you but you should be able to get part way there and finish it in your DAW. The vocals and FX will probably be the hardest part of getting to that top notch level of production.
Last edited by Samuel Davis; 05/01/18 11:45 AM.
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[And I definitely think the comments like "Drake's music sucks" and "Anyone could do that in BIAB if they wanted to but we don't want to because that is not 'real' music" are not only wrong-headed but plainly wrong! I just heard a comment on the radio yesterday concerning Jim Morrison's father telling him he couldn't sing and had no business wasting his time with music. Consider his father almost certainly was comparing him to big band singers like Sinatra or Bing Crosby. Of course Jim Morrison was never that kind of singer. This is all generational. My grandmother hated the 40's big bands, you know the ones that all us jazzers think are the greatest like Count Basie, Glen Miller, etc, etc. She hated that stuff because she was one generation earlier. She was from the Roaring 20's Flapper era. Flapper dancing had nothing to do with big band swing. We all know and love what we grew up listening to in high school and college. That simple. Younger people are already in their same rut. They don't think so yet but they already are. Ten years from now they're still going to be listening to the same classic stuff (classic to them) they were listening to when they were in high school. Of course most of us can't stand Drake. So what? That's why we're not the ones to try to get Biab to sound modern. My question is is PG going to be able to bring those younger people into the fold or is Biab going to gradually die along with all of us? Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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My question is is PG going to be able to bring those younger people into the fold or is Biab going to gradually die along with all of us?
Bob I'm afraid FOR you...because I agree with you.
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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Since it's been said that this thread is all over the place: And then there are The Brothers Osborne (fj turned us on to them) getting rave reviews from Rolling Stone to NPR and a zillion other sources. And with a recent appearance on Colbert's Late Show it only gets bigger. I have much younger friends who like them as we do. Are they Americana? Are they country? Whatever, they are a guitar centered group (and great guitar at that) who write about "real life" and are, to us, simply infectious. It not what folks are referring to as "modern" but it damn sure ain't stale and it's big and getting bigger and, yeah, a creative BiaB user could put together their instrumental bed rather quickly. I won’t bore you with additional similar artists that are on the horizon but I really do think something is happening...for what it's worth - hahahaha Check them out here and turn it up. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QV-eTFXazKcI don't see the doomsday scenario. But at 72 I guess I exemplify what some of you are talking about  However I submit the following photo Janice took of me this weekend to illustrate that I can think a bit young and I do hang with quite a few youngsters. Hard to find folks my age doing this...at least around here. Yep, Janice does it also but she's younger.....All meaning I do spend time with younger folks and we do talk music. 
Our albums and singles are on Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music, YouTube Music, Pandora and more. If interested search on Janice Merritt. Thanks! Our Videos
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Since it's been said that this thread is all over the place: And then there are The Brothers Osborne (fj turned us on to them) getting rave reviews from Rolling Stone to NPR and a zillion other sources. And with a recent appearance on Colbert's Late Show it only gets bigger. I have much younger friends who like them as we do. Are they Americana? Are they country? Whatever, they are a guitar centered group (and great guitar at that) who write about "real life" and are, to us, simply infectious. It not what folks are referring to as "modern" but it damn sure ain't stale and it's big and getting bigger and, yeah, a creative BiaB user could put together their instrumental bed rather quickly. I want bore you with additional artists that are on the horizon but I really do think something is happening...for what it's worth - hahahaha Check them out here and turn it up. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QV-eTFXazKcI don't see the doomsday scenario. But at 72 I guess I exemplify what some of you are talking about However I submit the following photo Janice took of me this weekend to illustrate that I can think a bit young and I do hang with quite a few youngsters. Hard to find folks my age doing this...at least around here. Yep, Janice does it also but she's younger.....All meaning I do spend time with younger folks and we do talk music. I think you're supposed to go around the rocks, Bud.
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Since it's been said that this thread is all over the place: And then there are The Brothers Osborne (fj turned us on to them) getting rave reviews from Rolling Stone to NPR and a zillion other sources. And with a recent appearance on Colbert's Late Show it only gets bigger. I have much younger friends who like them as we do. Are they Americana? Are they country? Whatever, they are a guitar centered group (and great guitar at that) who write about "real life" and are, to us, simply infectious. It not what folks are referring to as "modern" but it damn sure ain't stale and it's big and getting bigger and, yeah, a creative BiaB user could put together their instrumental bed rather quickly. I want bore you with additional artists that are on the horizon but I really do think something is happening...for what it's worth - hahahaha Check them out here and turn it up. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QV-eTFXazKcI don't see the doomsday scenario. But at 72 I guess I exemplify what some of you are talking about However I submit the following photo Janice took of me this weekend to illustrate that I can think a bit young and I do hang with quite a few youngsters. Hard to find folks my age doing this...at least around here. Yep, Janice does it also but she's younger.....All meaning I do spend time with younger folks and we do talk music. Awesome and Amen! LOVE the picture...just wow! I would say follow his lead, but good luck keeping up!
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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I have seen a little of that too. Not a lot but some and it shows young people are not a monolithic group as in all rap, all EDM etc. There are definitely varied tastes out there BUT...the good stuff is still a very small minority but at least there's hope. The good news is the music market is huge and even a small piece of it is still pretty big and it could be enough to keep a small company like PGM going.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows® Special Offers Extended Until January 15, 2026!
Good news! You still have time to upgrade to the latest version of Band-in-a-Box® for Windows® and save. Our Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows® special now runs through January 15, 2025!
We've packed Band-in-a-Box® 2026 with major new features, enhancements, and an incredible lineup of new content! The program now sports a sleek, modern GUI redesign across the entire interface, including updated toolbars, refreshed windows, smoother workflows, a new dark mode option, and more. The brand-new side toolbar provides quicker access to key windows, while the new Multi-View feature lets you arrange multiple windows as layered panels without overlap, creating a flexible, clutter-free workspace. We have an amazing new “AI-Notes” feature. This transcribes polyphonic audio into MIDI so you can view it in notation or play it back as MIDI. You can process an entire track (all pitched instruments and drums) or focus on individual parts like drums, bass, guitars/piano, or vocals. There's an amazing collection of new content too, including 202 RealTracks, new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 5, two RealDrums Stems sets, XPro Styles PAK 10, Xtra Styles PAK 21, and much more!
There are over 100 new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®.
When you order purchase Band-in-a-Box® 2026 before 11:59 PM PST on January 15th, you'll also receive a Free Bonus PAK packed with exciting new add-ons.
Upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows® today! Check out the Band-in-a-Box® packages page for all the purchase options available.
Happy New Year!
Thank you for being part of the Band-in-a-Box® community.
Wishing you and yours a very happy 2026—Happy New Year from all of us at PG Music!
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