There is a (or yet another) discussion in Off Topics about "modern" sounding recordings. I could have posted this there, but it seems more appropriate here...
Some might not be aware that you can find a number of "Vocal Only" videos on YouTube. This can be helpful for those looking to "capture" a similar sound in their recordings.
Since the Ed Sheeran song "Perfect" has been mentioned in one of those threads, here is what the vocal sounds like:
And here is the mixed song:
If this is the style music you are wanting to do... in your current (or next) song mix, solo your vocal and bounce between listening to YOU and then ED.
Do you have similar processing? There is likely more delay and more reverb and compression - and maybe a little chorus? - on his???
Perhaps someone who wants to make the argument that BIAB can provide something similar would want to capture the vocal and put a BIAB production around it (not to sound "just like the record" but to sound similar).. although the legality of posting that here is suspect. But you could do it for yourself and send it to anyone you wanted to convince...? (just an idea)
Definite step in the right direction. As always, your approach is MUCH better than mine. lol I'm just hoping this opens people minds a little. It's the type of thing I was alluding to when I said "just not there yet." It's all these little things.
Great job in posting this.
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
I've been doing this for years. PGMusic is nothing short of amazing. While it certainly cannot run with the original in the cost and high quality of every facet of production, at mp3 level - It's like is it real or is it memorex?
Some of the members that have been around a long time will get that on the way home tonight....
Worthy of note is the simplicity of the arrangement; with the exception of the harmony vocals and the session strings of course. But note that there's only a few bars of any lead instrument in the whole song. Just a few bars. Just one instrument.
Yep...reverb, echo, and chorus is what it sounds like in the tails in the top video.
So, the secret, if there is one, to getting good vocals......
I would say that most people treat their vocals as "also ran".... yeah, the song needs a vocal and one take and we're done, maybe two. The only time they sing is when they have a track to record. Heck, we all do this to some degree. The only time I really spent several hours a day practicing singing and playing guitar was when I was a full time musician for a living. Life intrudes on those of us who have to work 8 to 10 hrs a day. If you have the time to sing a few hrs a day, you will notice a change in your voice. Kinda like exercising.... you see results when you do it right and for long enough.
Real singers, the pros, the ones who sound good, are the folks who also study singing. And in particular, their singing. They rehearse and practice singing. They treat it like it's an instrument, which it is. They work in their studios on not only the vocal itself..... tone, inflection, phrasing, projection, strength, characteristics, qualities, but on the actual process of recording. How much reverb makes the vox sound good and how much is too much? Echo? Chorus? And the big ones, EQ & Compression.
For those who are curious and want to sing better vocals, I would recommend getting Melodyne.... not because it can fix stuff but because you can SEE stuff. Most folks don't realize the bad habits they have in their vocals until either a vocal coach points it out or they can look at a Melodyne blob and see it for themselves. Using this ME method helped make me aware of several bad habits I had and was subsequently then, able to fix. If you're pulling a note or holding back.... you can see it on the screen.
The key to getting good with anything whether it's playing guitar, piano, or singing, is to practice perfectly. Lots of people practice, but if you're practicing mistakes, you will make those mistakes perfectly every time.
So.... set up a mic, set down.... no, actually, standup, fire up the DAW and work on just singing with no background instruments. The goal is to learn how to make it sound full and present.
Vocal quality, or what you think you sound like doesn't matter. Unless you are in the very small percentage of people who actually can not carry a tune and honestly sound like a croaking bullfrog trying to court the frog on the next lily pad....... you can learn to sing decently. There are a number of professional singers whose voices are questionable at best, but they are out there singing for a living.
Just do it.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.com Add nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both.
The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
Personally, I feel the effects choice AND treatment with those effects lends as much to the feeling of "when" a song was made.
Effect sounds do change "with the times." Sometimes in a new way, sometimes to give you a "throw back" type of sound.
I've actually been a bit surprised with some of the videos like what you posted Floyd. I would NOT have know THAT was how the effects sounded. In the mix, they sound so different to me.
Great topic for a post.
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
So, the secret, if there is one, to getting good vocals......
That misses the point entirely. And goes off on another tangent.
This was not about singing. It's about processing vocals in the current musical landscape.
I excel at missing the point entirely.
However, no amount of processing...well, almost no amount of processing will salvage a horrid vocal.... depends too on the final result and stated goal of the song.
In my own defense... I did mention something about the effects in the last part of paragraph 2.
Last edited by Guitarhacker; 05/02/1801:59 PM.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.com Add nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both.
The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
The use of delay is very interesting to me and is not something I have tried.
Noel posted a video a few threads down from this about using delay instead of reverb, or with just a very little reverb, apparently that's how the pros do it.
The use of delay is very interesting to me and is not something I have tried.
Noel posted a video a few threads down from this about using delay instead of reverb, or with just a very little reverb, apparently that's how the pros do it.
It's something I want to experiment with soon.
Good thread!
Dave,
Am I correct in recalling that you use Reaper? If so, my recommendation is to watch this video first (it explains the effect and how to do it really well)...
Yes, I use Reaper but have never tried the readelay.
Watched the video and I'm trying out that stereo slapback delay now on my latest song, “Life ain’t a Cookie Jar”, which currently just has reverb on the vocal, maybe I'll post a new mix.
Thanks!
EDIT: Unable to edit my song description in the showcase, it's been up there too long. To my ears, which are not the best ears, I'm still learning this stuff, adding the stereo slapback delay and backing off on the reverb is an improvement. I updated the mix on reverbnation but left the one on soundcloud with the original (just reverb) mix if anyone wants to compare them.
Sorry Floyd, didn't mean to hijack your thread
Last edited by BlueAttitude; 05/03/1804:13 PM. Reason: Added song name :P
Good Stuff. Thanks Noel, I'll watch those two videos in due course. Busy trying to figure out the VoiceLive 3 Extreme - finally. It has a few slap back delay settings. One it calls Elvis!
Windows 10 Home 20H2 Build 19042.487 BIAB 2021 (Build 818) Intel(R) Core(TM), i3-4160, CPU @3.60 GHz RAM 16 GB, 64 Bit X64-based processor Zoom UAC-2 (USB 3 interface-built in midi) VoiceLive 3 Extreme, Sputnik Valve Condenser Mic
Watched the video and I'm trying out that stereo slapback delay now on my latest song, “Life ain’t a Cookie Jar”, which currently just has reverb on the vocal, maybe I'll post a new mix.
Thanks!
EDIT: Unable to edit my song description in the showcase, it's been up there too long. To my ears, which are not the best ears, I'm still learning this stuff, adding the stereo slapback delay and backing off on the reverb is an improvement. I updated the mix on reverbnation but left the one on soundcloud with the original (just reverb) mix if anyone wants to compare them.
Dave,
There is a difference. To my ears, the vocals on Reverbnation sound a little more intimate and a little clearer.
Well this sounds like a challenge right up my street because I am busy recording this track (with Lebz on guitar) as part of an album to sell at our National Arts Festival in July.
Please note: I always obtain the necessary licenses from CAPASSO for cover songs when I produce these albums to sell at my live shows. Here is my acapella lead vocal. I would love feedback on what you think I could do to improve on it. I will post the finished version a little later.
Watched the video and I'm trying out that stereo slapback delay now on my latest song, “Life ain’t a Cookie Jar”, which currently just has reverb on the vocal, maybe I'll post a new mix.
Thanks!
EDIT: Unable to edit my song description in the showcase, it's been up there too long. To my ears, which are not the best ears, I'm still learning this stuff, adding the stereo slapback delay and backing off on the reverb is an improvement. I updated the mix on reverbnation but left the one on soundcloud with the original (just reverb) mix if anyone wants to compare them.
Dave,
There is a difference. To my ears, the vocals on Reverbnation sound a little more intimate and a little clearer.
I enjoyed the opportunity to compare. Thanks.
Regards, Noel
Thanks for taking the time to listen and comment, Noel, I appreciate the extra set of ears!
I found to get the best results I needed to add EQ in the chain after the delay module to bring down some harsh frequencies that I was not hearing without the delay. I think they were always there, the delay just brought them more to the front.
Anyway, lots of promise and I’m going to experiment more next week with this.
Edit: I've uploaded the new mix to soundcloud now also, I don't think anyone else is interested in listening. Might as well have the best one up there too.
Well this sounds like a challenge right up my street because I am busy recording this track (with Lebz on guitar) as part of an album to sell at our National Arts Festival in July.
Please note: I always obtain the necessary licenses from CAPASSO for cover songs when I produce these albums to sell at my live shows. Here is my acapella lead vocal. I would love feedback on what you think I could do to improve on it. I will post the finished version a little later.
Your vocal sounds good. Even, balanced. Good amount of reverb. (none of the distortion that used to show up).
The final result will, of course, depend on how it sounds with whatever tracks it sits in - it needs a context to really know.
But... compared to the Sheeran vocal, yours is fairly "conventional". That is not a "bad" thing... it is conventional. The Sheeran vocal obviously has a whole different kind of processing going on. I hear something that sounds like a Rotary Speaker plugin has been used on it. There is definitely some delay (or a lot of it), too. I'm not hearing a delay in yours (did you use one?).
I have never gone down this rabbit hole before - the one about "how are current, 'modern' vocals processed". So any comments regarding how those vocals are processed are guesses - and since I have never used a rotary plugin on anything, it is simply based on "I think I hear this"...
Well this sounds like a challenge right up my street because I am busy recording this track (with Lebz on guitar) as part of an album to sell at our National Arts Festival in July.
Please note: I always obtain the necessary licenses from CAPASSO for cover songs when I produce these albums to sell at my live shows. Here is my acapella lead vocal. I would love feedback on what you think I could do to improve on it. I will post the finished version a little later.
Your vocal sounds good. Even, balanced. Good amount of reverb. (none of the distortion that used to show up).
The final result will, of course, depend on how it sounds with whatever tracks it sits in - it needs a context to really know.
But... compared to the Sheeran vocal, yours is fairly "conventional". That is not a "bad" thing... it is conventional. The Sheeran vocal obviously has a whole different kind of processing going on. I hear something that sounds like a Rotary Speaker plugin has been used on it. There is definitely some delay (or a lot of it), too. I'm not hearing a delay in yours (did you use one?).
I have never gone down this rabbit hole before - the one about "how are current, 'modern' vocals processed". So any comments regarding how those vocals are processed are guesses - and since I have never used a rotary plugin on anything, it is simply based on "I think I hear this"...
Floyd, thanks so much. I don't know how you guys can identify what you are hearing. I suppose it is years and years of practice. I put up some "acoustic treatment" in my studio the other day (some old blankets draped on some speaker stands actually) and could not hear any difference. Lebz said he could hear the difference the minute he walked into the room..sigh...
So here I go down this rabbit hole too... I am just downloading a trial Rotary speaker plugin and will experiment with it and also some delay, I didn't add delay to the first version, only reverb . (I always battle a little with delay).
Almost all vocals (these days) include some delay. Most good delay plugins will include presets specifically labeled for vocals. That is a place to start.
Don't forget, the Rotary Speaker thing was a guess on my part. When you try it, pay attention to the amount on the "mix dial" (or "wet/dry" if it has that). turn that down at first to keep the effect "subtle". (Same with delay) then try higher settings to see how they affect thee vocal - and most importantly, how it sits in the mix.
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