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Controlling rogue bass line #473810 05/21/18 02:23 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Mar 2018 Posts: 319 B BIABman OP Journeyman
OP BIABman Journeyman B Joined: Mar 2018 Posts: 319	The chords are: /C, , Em,Dm/F / BIAB bass is playing C, DOWN to low E, UP an octave to D, then DOWN to F !!! How can I tell BIAB which bass octave to play? IOW play logically/musically? C, UP to E, DOWN to D, UP to F (then maybe octave down on F). Last edited by BIABman; 05/21/18 02:25 PM. A BIAB user for more than 30 years (if you can believe it) !

Re: Controlling rogue bass line BIABman #473812 05/21/18 02:44 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: May 2000 Posts: 22,224 Mi., USA rharv Veteran
rharv Veteran Joined: May 2000 Posts: 22,224 Mi., USA	Quote: C, DOWN to low E, UP an octave to D, then DOWN to F !!! On a fretted instrument these are your basic/simple choices due to the instrument itself. Once you hit low E on a bass the only way to get to a D is to go up (almost) an octave .. I would 'expect' these intervals on a real bass. If the bass is played on a keyboard it may be different, but played on an actual bass, it makes sense to me for RT's. To over-ride the bass selection you can sometimes try something like using Cmaj7/E for chord entry (instead of Em) for the second chord, which may force the bass to go more where you were hoping, but in your example chord structure it sounds to me like a pretty expected result. RT's only have so many options to choose from. Unless you 'revoice' the chords .. and try to force something else I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome Make your sound your own!

Re: Controlling rogue bass line rharv #473817 05/21/18 03:10 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Mar 2018 Posts: 319 B BIABman OP Journeyman
OP BIABman Journeyman B Joined: Mar 2018 Posts: 319	Thanks for your reply. It just seems to me that after all these years (decades really) BIAB does not look ahead and analyze a chord progression, but rather simply looks ahead chord by chord. Why jump up and down octaves for three consecutive notes when it is not necessary? C, DOWN to low E, UP an octave to D, then DOWN to F !!! If BIAB looked ahead and saw the D and F, surely it would have realized that going UP to the E instead of DOWN would have made a much smoother bass line? A BIAB user for more than 30 years (if you can believe it) !

Re: Controlling rogue bass line BIABman #473818 05/21/18 03:13 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 10,827 Winston Salem, NC USA Jim Fogle Veteran
Jim Fogle Veteran Joined: Aug 2011 Posts: 10,827 Winston Salem, NC USA	Try using a different, but similar Bass RealTrack. A different Bass RealTrack might have a different run for the same chord progression built into it. Look in the RealTracks picker to see what the suggested tempo range is for the Bass RealTrack you're using. If the Bass RealTracks that you're using is close to the edge of the tempo range, freeze the rest of the tracks then change the tempo. BiaB may select something different at the different tempo. Jim Fogle - 2025 BiaB (Build 1128) RB (Build 5) - Ultra+ PAK DAWs: Cakewalk Sonar - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8 Laptop: i3 Win 10, 8GB ram 500GB HDD Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home

Re: Controlling rogue bass line BIABman #473819 05/21/18 03:23 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: May 2000 Posts: 22,224 Mi., USA rharv Veteran
rharv Veteran Joined: May 2000 Posts: 22,224 Mi., USA	I was just explaining how I (with bass in hand) might have 'seen' it and played it with the described chords. I would think in my head the sequence would be C (second string) then E (open low E) then closest D is up a string .. etc. It may also depend on the style chosen as they all are different, like mentioned above by Jim .. My next go-to attempt would be to redefine the chords to see if an alternate voicing can get my 'desired' result as opposed to the 'expected' result using the added options in RB. The cool thing in RB is the ability to make these kind of changes, generate a given track and then revert back to a different RT/chord progression later for other tracks. In BiaB you are asking all tracks to abide by the new chords, which may affect some tracks inadvertently. In RB the new chords can apply to only a given track when generating a new option .. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome Make your sound your own!

Re: Controlling rogue bass line rharv #473820 05/21/18 04:07 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Mar 2018 Posts: 319 B BIABman OP Journeyman
OP BIABman Journeyman B Joined: Mar 2018 Posts: 319	Thanks guys for your suggestions. A little too complicated for me though (I also don't use RealBand.) I transposed the tune from C to G and that has helped quite a bit. However there are still a couple of undesirable bass lines. Here are the slash chords: //C/E, Bm/D, Am/C, G/B // D7sus... Naturally you would want a descending bass starting on E. But BIAB has a mind all its own and starts with the low E, then jumps up to start the descending line after that! Is there some way to indicate to BIAB (here and in another instance) which octave you want for that note? Well lucky me! I discovered that the bass line IS MIDI! So now I am in the piano roll and don't know how to move notes? Any tips? The intuitive way of grabbing the note and moving it up or down is not working... Last edited by BIABman; 05/21/18 04:19 PM. A BIAB user for more than 30 years (if you can believe it) !

Re: Controlling rogue bass line BIABman #473821 05/21/18 04:24 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: May 2005 Posts: 2,608 Sterling, Va raymb1 Veteran
raymb1 Veteran Joined: May 2005 Posts: 2,608 Sterling, Va	Keep re-generating Playback until you find one you like, then save/freeze it. Asus Q500A i7 Win 10 64 bit 8GB ram 750 HD 15.5" touch screen, BIAB 2017, Casio PX 5s, Xw P1, Center Point Stereo SS V3 and EWI 4000s.

Re: Controlling rogue bass line BIABman #473822 05/21/18 04:27 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Mar 2018 Posts: 319 B BIABman OP Journeyman
OP BIABman Journeyman B Joined: Mar 2018 Posts: 319	OK well I opened the Help file and learned that you move the note by clicking the Middle of the note bar... Now the problem I have is when I re-generate the song, the notes go right back to what they were originally. How do I FREEZE just the notes I changed? Last edited by BIABman; 05/21/18 04:28 PM. A BIAB user for more than 30 years (if you can believe it) !

Re: Controlling rogue bass line BIABman #473823 05/21/18 04:49 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Mar 2018 Posts: 319 B BIABman OP Journeyman
OP BIABman Journeyman B Joined: Mar 2018 Posts: 319	You've just frozen the track. Now you want to make more changes to it. Do you unfreeze, change and then re-freeze? And how about changing an F note to an F# in Notation mode? I don't see how? When I drag the note it never wants to put a sharp. If I just click a note it asks if I want to add another note over the existing note! One more question. You are in Notation mode. How do you start playing the song from a particular note? Last edited by BIABman; 05/21/18 04:53 PM. Reason: One more question.. A BIAB user for more than 30 years (if you can believe it) !

Re: Controlling rogue bass line BIABman #473865 05/22/18 04:16 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: May 2001 Posts: 2,249 L Lloyd S Veteran
Lloyd S Veteran L Joined: May 2001 Posts: 2,249	BIABman: You said: "You've just frozen the track. Now you want to make more changes to it. Do you unfreeze, change and then re-freeze?" The answer is YES. For changing your F note to an F#, it may be easier to go back to Piano Roll mode, then (as you've discovered), just grab the middle of the note bar and move it up. Good luck! LLOYD S

Re: Controlling rogue bass line BIABman #473890 05/22/18 07:44 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 19,933 Australia Noel96 Veteran
Noel96 Veteran Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 19,933 Australia	Originally Posted By: BIABman OK well I opened the Help file and learned that you move the note by clicking the Middle of the note bar... Now the problem I have is when I re-generate the song, the notes go right back to what they were originally. How do I FREEZE just the notes I changed? BIABman, While you're doing all this experimenting, I suspect that it would help if you turned off the automatic track naming feature. This feature names tracks according to the instrument that is placed on them. While this naming has advantages, it also has disadvantages (I'll explain a bit more below). To disable auto-naming, the options shown on the image below are found on the opening screen of "Options \| Preferences" (in BIAB 2018). When disabled, the tracks are always called Bass, Piano, Drums, Guitar, Strings, Melody, Soloist. These legacy names do not change when instruments change. Once legacy names are on display, it becomes easier to identify which tracks will regenerate and which will not. If you make changes to notes on the Melody or the Soloist tracks, these changes are unaffected by regeneration. Any changes on the other five tracks though will get over-written by regeneration unless the track is frozen. Also... to answer you question about freezing a few notes... it's not possible. The freeze process applies to the whole track. Lastly, at the URL below, you'll find some video clips. While most of these use older versions of BIAB, the principles outlined still apply today. These clips might be useful for you. http://www.pgmusic.com/videos.bbwin.htm Hope this helps, Noel Attached Files (Click to download or enlarge) (Only available when you are logged in) autoname track labels preferences.JPG (51.28 KB, 140 downloads) MY SONGS... Audiophile BIAB 2025 audios on Soundcloud

Re: Controlling rogue bass line Lloyd S #473900 05/22/18 08:56 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Mar 2018 Posts: 319 B BIABman OP Journeyman
OP BIABman Journeyman B Joined: Mar 2018 Posts: 319	Originally Posted By: Lloyd S For changing your F note to an F#, it may be easier to go back to Piano Roll mode, then (as you've discovered), just grab the middle of the note bar and move it up. Good luck! LLOYD S Thanks Lloyd. That's what I ended up doing, falling back to something I know will work. A BIAB user for more than 30 years (if you can believe it) !

Re: Controlling rogue bass line Noel96 #473902 05/22/18 08:58 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Mar 2018 Posts: 319 B BIABman OP Journeyman
OP BIABman Journeyman B Joined: Mar 2018 Posts: 319	Originally Posted By: Noel96 Also... to answer you question about freezing a few notes... it's not possible. The freeze process applies to the whole track. OK. Quote: Lastly, at the URL below, you'll find some video clips. While most of these use older versions of BIAB, the principles outlined still apply today. These clips might be useful for you. http://www.pgmusic.com/videos.bbwin.htm Hope this helps, Noel Thanks Noel! A BIAB user for more than 30 years (if you can believe it) !

Re: Controlling rogue bass line BIABman #473967 05/22/18 02:40 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 311 funkycornwall Journeyman
funkycornwall Journeyman Joined: Apr 2007 Posts: 311	Personally I think you are better writing your own bass lines using a DAW. Bass is such an important part of the song and the bass line should be logical and rhythmic. The bass RealTracks will often jump about in an unmusical fashion which is a shame. As a result I normally play my parts in using a midi keyboard and a vst like Trilian. After that I edit the timing so it sits well with the drums. I actually enjoy producing the bass line and think it is essential to the success of a track. www.tonycliffmusic.com http://tonycliff.bandcamp.com

Re: Controlling rogue bass line BIABman #473970 05/22/18 02:56 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Apr 2013 Posts: 8,694 South Carolina C Charlie Fogle Veteran
Charlie Fogle Veteran C Joined: Apr 2013 Posts: 8,694 South Carolina	"Well lucky me! I discovered that the bass line IS MIDI!" Originally Posted By: BIABman OK well I opened the Help file and learned that you move the note by clicking the Middle of the note bar... Now the problem I have is when I re-generate the song, the notes go right back to what they were originally. How do I FREEZE just the notes I changed? Funkycornwall has given you the best suggestion in my opinion. I think what you've run into is a RealTrack with a Real Chart. If that is indeed the case, anytime you re-generate the track, the RealTrack will regenerate and so will will the Real Chart. It will change to conform to the RealTrack. To have your bass play the Real Chart, you will have to change to a midi bass instrument. That's not a bad thing because you can then notate the bass to play whatever notes you choose and desire. BIAB 2025:RB 2025, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.

Re: Controlling rogue bass line BIABman #473974 05/22/18 03:07 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Apr 2013 Posts: 8,694 South Carolina C Charlie Fogle Veteran
Charlie Fogle Veteran C Joined: Apr 2013 Posts: 8,694 South Carolina	This older tutorial video may be useful to your situation and allow you to continue to use RealTracks in your project. Replace RealTrack parts with song specific riffs BIAB 2025:RB 2025, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.

Re: Controlling rogue bass line BIABman #474242 05/23/18 05:26 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Mar 2018 Posts: 319 B BIABman OP Journeyman
OP BIABman Journeyman B Joined: Mar 2018 Posts: 319	Thanks Funky and Charlie. I will rant some more now, because I get so frustrated with this program! I look to BIAB as a point and shoot program. Up until now I have never messed with playing out the bass parts or any other parts. For 99% of the time I use BIAB to lay down bass and drums, that's all. I don't use any of the other bells and whistles the program offers. So I learned (or thought I learned about Freeze mode). I went back to the beginning of the song. Played through the first verse to check chords and bass line (and changes from 4/4 to 2/4 and back to 4/4). Then I went into Notation mode to change the bass line to my liking. When in N-mode I noticed that Spacebar will Stop and Play from current bar. I continued to edit the bass line and finished the first verse. Before Freezing it I wanted to save time and copy it to the second verse. So I copied bars 1-20 to 21.. Then I put the cursor at bar one and pressed Space bar. All my bass line work was lost!!! What am I doing wrong? ARghhhhh!!!! P.S. I have been using BIAB off and on for 25+ years! Last edited by BIABman; 05/23/18 05:28 PM. Reason: Experience... A BIAB user for more than 30 years (if you can believe it) !

Re: Controlling rogue bass line BIABman #474246 05/23/18 06:36 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 19,933 Australia Noel96 Veteran
Noel96 Veteran Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 19,933 Australia	There are a few ways to copy things in BIAB. You haven't told us which one you used. From the sounds of things, you've employed a process that also copied and pasted part markers. That would cause BIAB to re-generate the next time the song started. As I mentioned in an earlier post, the Melody track and the Soloist track don't regenerate (unless you have a Realtrack or MIDI Supertrack loaded on them). With this in mind, and if you have a recent version of BIAB... I encourage you to follow the sequence of numbers on the image below and... 1. copy your MIDI bass track to the Melody 2. work on the notation on the Melody track 3. When you get it how you want, move the track back to the Bass track. BEFORE DOING THE ABOVE, though.... make sure that you save a backup copy of your song. Then, if something goes wrong, you can get back to where you were. Also save a backup with another name before you send the bass back to the Bass track. Regards, Noel Attached Files (Click to download or enlarge) (Only available when you are logged in) copy special copy move tracks.JPG (76.11 KB, 90 downloads) MY SONGS... Audiophile BIAB 2025 audios on Soundcloud

Re: Controlling rogue bass line Noel96 #474717 05/26/18 03:32 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Mar 2018 Posts: 319 B BIABman OP Journeyman
OP BIABman Journeyman B Joined: Mar 2018 Posts: 319	Thanks for helping out Noel. I don't have much hair left on my head (for pulling out) and my time is limited on this planet now (for song tinkering). I followed your instructions but they didn't work! 1, 2, 3. Bass line went right back to the way it was originally (before all my edits). ARGHHHHHH!!!!!!! A BIAB user for more than 30 years (if you can believe it) !

Re: Controlling rogue bass line BIABman #474720 05/26/18 03:43 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Apr 2013 Posts: 8,694 South Carolina C Charlie Fogle Veteran
Charlie Fogle Veteran C Joined: Apr 2013 Posts: 8,694 South Carolina	If you use a Supermidi Bass, you can edit and save the notation changes you make. I recommend using Supermidi because it will generate a part the same as a RealTrack but because it is midi, you can edit it the same as you would a regular midi track. You can then use Sforzando VST to get the right bass sound you want. BIAB 2025:RB 2025, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.

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