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I would be OK with just the edit on the User Showcase and leave the other forums as-is.
 Steve BIAB/RB 2022, Pro Tools 2020, Korg N5, JBL LSR 4328 Powered Monitors, AKG/Shure Mics.
PC: Win11 PRO, 4 TB M2 SSD, 2 TB HD, 128 GB Memory
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My immediate reaction was it would have been more suitable to make Last Post the default. Not only was the majority of posters ok with the status quo in the bump thread but it's my belief the overwhelming majority of people who access the Users Showcase are regular forum members who are there to catch up on threads they are following first and then check out newer listings.
I know, I know. You may have up to three that will protest the extra click they have to press if you reverse the order but they can be handled the same way as those who demand a single platform, 64 bit, VST based band in a box program audiophile version for $49.95 that has a button to auto generate the chords, lyrics, melody with lead and background vocals of a 'modern' country #1 chart song.
You could have avoided all this if PGMusic had just purchased a Sirius Satellite Radio Channel and moved the all newly converted 192/32 floating bit audio format songs of the Users Showcase and made David Snyder/Tater Tot the DJ.
BIAB 2025:RB 2025, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.
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A couple of members wanted this. And scores didn’t. We are extremely disappointed and do not feel that the User Forum will remain an inviting place to visit.
Look at the members you feature in hot topics. Look at the members you feature on facebook. Look at the songs you add to your featured playlist. Then look at who was complaining.
Our albums and singles are on Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music, YouTube Music, Pandora and more. If interested search on Janice Merritt. Thanks! Our Videos are here on our website.
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Bud,
You forgot to mention...
Look at who offers the most encouragement to song posters. Look at who offers the most help. Look at who takes time to make users feel welcome in the forum. Then have a read through this thread.
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2025
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There are many ways to handle posts of songs and one way to thank others for commenting that does not artificially add to the number of comments. I don’t post songs here because I no longer use PG products but I’ve interacted with folk here for over 20 years so this feels like home.
In the February Album Writing Month community, it is considered bad form to reply with thanks to commenters on your own song post. However, it is encourage to leave a note of thanks on the commenter’s home page.
The same could be done here with the private message feature of the PG forums. Thank your commenter privately.
That forum has a feature that also allows you to be directly informed when a particular artist posts a song with something they call the watchlist. Each participant’s watchlist and list of people that are watching them is private info.
That said, there are still ‘celebrities’ of sorts in that community which happen because they are so prolific in both their songwriting and comment giving.
PG’s current forum provider may or may not have the code for doing watchlists, but it certainly does have the private message feature
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The fact that here on the forum we can elevate certain talented people to a "Celebrity" status to me is one of the single greatest elements of the Users Showcase and PGMusic Forum. To a person, our "Celebrities" deserve our respect and choice to honor their talents, expertise and skill.
The change in the Users Showcase format negatively effects our chosen "celebrities" the most and completely disrupts our Celebrity system.
Most worrisome is this change stems from the practice of Bumping Posts and reading the OP's first two posts in the thread makes it clear the 'Bump' itself is not the issue but the OP's belief the Users Showcase song posters gratuitous, selfish, self-serving, self promoting and ego are behind the 'bumps'.
Although this minor change in the Showcase format gives the appearance that PGMusic shares this opinion with the OP, I certainly hope it's not the case.
BIAB 2025:RB 2025, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.
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Scott, In the February Album Writing Month community, it is considered bad form to reply with thanks to commenters on your own song post. However, it is encourage to leave a note of thanks on the commenter’s home page. Your points are well taken. To be fair, though, when you use FAWM as a comparison, it's a bit like comparing apples and oranges. Sure, both are fruits, but there's a big difference between them. FAWM exists for 28 days each year (29 days on a leap year) while Users Showcase is continuous 24/7/365. As I see it, such difference requires individual approaches. No matter how hard anyone tries, it's not possible to bake an apple pie with oranges. Written with respect, Noel ======= Charlie, The fact that here on the forum we can elevate certain talented people to a "Celebrity" status to me is one of the single greatest elements of the Users Showcase and PGMusic Forum. To a person, our "Celebrities" deserve our respect and choice to honor their talents, expertise and skill.
The change in the Users Showcase format negatively effects our chosen "celebrities" the most and completely disrupts our Celebrity system. Those are really astute observations. Up until now, a song's presence in Users Showcase has been based on the principle that's exactly the same as the Top 10 or Top 40. There's a reason it's popular and sits at the top of the list. It's had the most people comments on it. Whether or not the song's poster replies individually to each comment does not alter this popularity. Some reasons for popularity have been... - David Snyder periodically gives excellent advice in his song posts about how he arranged and mixed his work.
- Janice of Janice & Bud sings like an angel and is a model for anyone who wants to develop vocal skills.
- floyd jane has freely and generously given songwriting and song-arranging insights way too numerous to detail over the years. Amongst his advice has been: how to use TC Helicon; best mics; EQ and compression; etc., etc.
- Steve Young and Animarorecords are the most highly polished orchestrators on the forum. I always marvel at their skills and listen over and over to their work.
- Guitarhacker has been very generous with helping many people set up equipment and get the best out of production.
- Sundance has written some wonderful songs.
- Tommyad's guitar playing is as polished as anything and he, too, has been very generous with advice on how to use plugins and mixing.
- ROG has regularly shown us all how to be creative and fearless in our writing and production.
- rsdean is our own Bob Dylan and has developed quite a following on the forum.
- In addition to presenting outstanding material, RnAM are production and video experts.
- Buford present works that serve as models for productions.
- Gruverider, Boheme, 90dB, Aleck Rand, Gibson, RichMac, Dani48, Greg Johnson, Al David, Peterf, Tommyc.... over the years, there have been far too many 'Celebrities' to name. The list just goes on and on.
The large majority of these people are also the ones who make Users Showcase what it is by commenting, encouraging and helping. They define 'generosity of spirit'. The threads of these people will now disappear fairly quickly and new users will need to be very lucky to discover the gems of learning that are often hidden in the posts of those with expertise. As I said in my other thread, I find what has happened very disheartening. Regards, Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2025
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I am reluctant to comment, because since my stroke I have limited mobility and have to type with one hand. It's bloody tedious, let me tell you.  Seems like one guy has a problem with what he considers blatant “self-promotion”. Then, we have a few guys that never even use the Showcase agreeing with him. We even got input from someone who doesn't even own or use the program.  I say put it to a vote, but restrict the voting to people who actually post on the Showcase. It's their ox that's being gored. My $.02. Regards, Bob
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PG Music Staff
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Thanks for the feedback. After reading through the thread yesterday I was under the impression that the consensus was for it to be sorted by start time, so that's the only reason I tested that out. It's now back to same sort order as the other forums, which is "last post time". Instead, here are the changes:
(1) There is a sort menu at the top of the User Showcase post list, but it is re-worded to make it clear you can sort by most recent song or most recent comment if you choose.
(2) The default number of topics that display on one page is tripled, so songs stay longer on page 1.
Feel free to suggest any other ideas.
Andrew
PG Music Inc.
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I realize that some may feel my input is irrelevant because I don’t use PG products, but I have participated in lots of different online venues which have commenting on songs as a feature. IMO, the best sites for this allow each song to have its own landing page and collects comments on that page. Every online venue that doesn’t do this ends up with issues of lack of staying power on the first page of posts; which seems to be one of the concerns.
Giving each song a landing page also allows the posters to share information like lyrics, song structure, tools used to create the song, etc.
Trying to put all of that information into a forum AND collect comments AND give thanks for comments is kind of a mess. KVRaudio.com music cafe has the same issue. Post a song there and it can disappear from page 1 in hours never to be clicked on again.
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Journeyman
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I always reply to other's posts on my songs, although at times I've just missed seeing them. I would feel like I was slighting someone if I didn't, as I have posted comments on others' songs that got no reply or a "thank you." To me it's just being courteous. I agree with Josie (Sundance) that I feel I owe a reply to any individual who takes the time to comment or compliment. When you play live, unless you really suck, you spend a LOT of time saying "Thank you." offstage as well as on. Again just courtesy. As for the "habitual bumpers" I have to say I agree with Floyd, music is all about "self promotion" and some people feel they need it. I don't see any blatant misuse on the forums that I couldn't ignore.
Also, having been a guitar/banjo teacher for over 40 years now, I can't ignore anyone who asks for advice or compliments a guitar lick or sound. I'll explain until they are satisfied or post a link that gives a more detailed explanation. It probably "bloats the thread" but that's never been the purpose of my responses. Often others' posts have led me to start a topic on a subject that I think could help folks, whether it's mixing, vocal skills, playing the banjo, or using specific equipment, instruments, setup etc. To me these forums are all about helping others.
A couple of weeks ago I helped a new member, Phil Leith, get going with BIAB. I helped him offline with producing and mixing and posting his work. Finally I advised him to respond to every comment he received on his work out of courtesy. I'm promoting what some folks on here don't like by doing that, but I think it's proper etiquette.
And finally, I think I have one topic where I posted 47 replies out of 74 total posts. Sounds like a record to me after reading Eddie's summation. I replied to everyone who posted and to some who are on the forum that sent me posts via Facebook. I also posted a reply every time the song ("Not Every Day Was Sad") hit another milestone "views" number, to thank everyone who was listening/reading, whatever. I was overwhelmed that a song I'd posted only 10 months earlier had racked up over 11,000 views. I finally decided to just let it go when no one I asked could explain to me how it got that many views and the Soundcloud plays were in the low hundreds.
So suffice it to say I think there are a lot of reasons that posts might appear to be "self promotion" or "spamming." But for me, and I gather for most people who posted on this thread, they are just courteous or explanatory responses to someone or something that was mentioned in that thread. Whatever, going forward I will always respond to anyone who posts on my songs, and respond with an explanation when I think it's helpful.
To each his own.
Keep 'em coming,
Bob Buford
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Thanks for the feedback. After reading through the thread yesterday I was under the impression that the consensus was for it to be sorted by start time, so that's the only reason I tested that out. It's now back to same sort order as the other forums, which is "last post time". Instead, here are the changes:
(1) There is a sort menu at the top of the User Showcase post list, but it is re-worded to make it clear you can sort by most recent song or most recent comment if you choose.
(2) The default number of topics that display on one page is tripled, so songs stay longer on page 1.
Feel free to suggest any other ideas. Hi Andrew, Thanks. That's a great idea about increasing the default display of the number of topics. Regards, Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2025
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David, I don’t know if the comments above are directed at me. I hope there is no perceived disparaging of PG products in my remarks. I am merely trying to offer suggestions as to how to offer a means for simultaneously provide a place to post songs, receive comments, give thanks for comments, and provide user tips as to how one created their art. Forums kind of stink for that purpose. Until you have tried a different methodology in a supportive community like this one, and like exists at FAWM and 50/90, it may be difficult to understand the benefits offered by FAWM-like song pages. Joanne Cooper and SamuelDavis participate in both of these communities. Perhaps their opinion is worth more than mine for comparison purposes. For me, the weaknesses of forum type song commenting stopped me from participating in them of any kind.
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Our albums and singles are on Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music, YouTube Music, Pandora and more. If interested search on Janice Merritt. Thanks! Our Videos are here on our website.
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Until you have tried a different methodology in a supportive community like this one, and like exists at FAWM and 50/90, it may be difficult to understand the benefits offered by FAWM-like song pages. Joanne Cooper and SamuelDavis participate in both of these communities. Perhaps their opinion is worth more than mine for comparison purposes. When songs are posted on FAWM they are in a "first in first out "basis. Commenting does not move them to the top of the page. That said, there is also a lot of political correctness and political incorrectness around commenting there too. It is always discussed ad nauseam every year. The general consensus is that if you want to receive a lot of comments then you need to give a lot of comments, which is the same way as it seems to work on our forums and on all the social media platforms. In other words, your grass grows greenest where you water it most.
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So, the take-aways from these 10 pages seem to be...
1) the forum will continue as it has been
2) bump your song posts all you want
3) if you prefer to see posts sorted by initial post date/time you can do that too
4) the grass is always greener over the septic tank
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So, the take-aways from these 10 pages seem to be...
1) the forum will continue as it has been
2) bump your song posts all you want
3) if you prefer to see posts sorted by initial post date/time you can do that too
4) the grass is always greener over the septic tank Classic!
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My take away is that the “principle of ironic determinism” lives. An old friend and I realized years ago that the most likely outcome of about any situation will often the most ironic imaginable. In this case the folks who were apparently the most offended by bumping tended to also be those least likely to frequent the User Showcase or at least demonstrate much of a visible presence there. Caveat: I don’t read minds (have enough problem at this age with my own  ) so above I used the word “apparently” as I still remain somewhat confused over why folks got so exercised over one recurring line on a computer/device screen. Cheers, etc. Bud
Our albums and singles are on Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music, YouTube Music, Pandora and more. If interested search on Janice Merritt. Thanks! Our Videos are here on our website.
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Being paralyzed, I don't comment as often as I should but I listen to the Showcase nearly every day.
I'm guilty of bumping my tunes when I feel that they have moved off the page too quickly. But I'm only human (or a reasonable facsimile).
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