PG Music Home Forums PG Music Product Forums Band-in-a-Box for Windows MIDI stopped working -- what have I done this time?

I'm still using BiaB 2017

Well, I was in the middle of listening to a piece I'm working on. And I got the bright idea to see if I can get an external synth to work. It's a Roland GR-33 Guitar Synth and I've had it up and running in Cakewalk Sonar just fine, so I figured it shouldn't be too hard to get it working in BiaB. Well, apparently not. The GR-33 is kinda old school. It uses the round MIDI plugs and my computer doesn't have any of those old style MIDI interfaces. Instead what I've been using is a Midiman USB Midisport 2x2, which I bought years ago. One small MidiSport 2x2 has the In/Out plugs for two MIDI instruments, which can then be connected via the MidiSport's USB interface. So anyway, I can get it to work fine in Sonar. But in Sonar I can define the Midisport to be used with my GR-33. Haven't found a way to do that yet with BiaB. So maybe that was my problem. Anyway I couldn't get it to work, but that's not why I'm writing this.

So I went back in the MIDI setup window and reconfigured things back to the way I had them. My machine's setup is very basic. I've indicated NO MIDI input devices and for the output device I've indicated the MS GS Wavetable Synth. This is the way BiaB has been set up on this machine since like forever. So anyway, I put things back exactly the way they were, but obviously something I did upset BiaB because I'm not getting any sound from it now. And this includes Realtracks, which are supposed to be .wav files, aren't they? Just now, I uploaded a tune I wrote in BiaB. It has four Realtracks and one MIDI track. No sound. So obviously BiaB reset something somewhere, and I've looked everywhere I know to look, but so far no joy.

Care to weigh in on this one? As always your help and advice is much appreciated.

Have a look at the below thread. It's the setup that I use whenever I have issues and need to resolve a problem. 99% of the time, this setup works. From here, I then modify things, one at a time, as needed.

http://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=461558#Post461558

When you get BIAB up and running again, under the "Options" menu, there is a selection for saving your setup. I always find it valuable to use this prior to making any significant changes.

Regards,
Noel

• one of my songs: Every Single Day

This definitely sounds like an issue with audio settings, not MIDI. If Noel's instructions don't do the trick (they really should), feel free to give our tech support line a call tomorrow, we should be able to get it working pretty quickly.

1-866-983-2474

Thanks
Kent
PG Music

Finally getting back to this thread. Noel, I went through that link, comparing your settings to mine. The only difference was I had "Coyote Forte" selected instead of "Coyote Wavetable." Resetting it appeared to do the trick, however. My sound is back.

Thanks!

So -- what is Coyote Forte for if it doesn't work? Or is this a synth I picked up somewhere that I shouldn't even have in the list?

Coyote Forte works just fine. You may just need to uninstall, then re-install it. Or did you perhaps install it and not enter the serial number to keep it working?

Coyote Wavetable is strictly a wrapper of the default MIDI sounds that come with Windows and presents those sounds to BIAB (or your DAW) as a DXi synth. Coyote Forte is also a DXi synth, but has its own giga-format based sounds. It costs $40, and you get a serial number to enter after installing it. If I recall correctly, it stops working after the trial period ends and you don't enter the serial number. The Coyote Forte sounds much better than the Coyote WT.

Ah, that's probably it, then, cuz I know I didn't pay $40 for it.

Are you familiar with Cakewalk's TTS-1? If so, would you say it is comparable? TTS-1 has quite a few nice general MIDI sounds. I use it quite a bit when I'm doing my mixdowns in Sonar.

It would be nice to have something equivalent to it in BiaB because sometimes I'll do my final mixdowns in BiaB. Usually when I've come across a MIDI instrument that's working very well, which I would lose when I convert the BiaB file to MIDI for importing into Sonar.

Why not make TTS-1 your default soft synth?

There is one "gotcha" to watch out for. If you're using a 64 bit version of Sonar then TTS-1 is also 64 bit. That's also true with Sonar Sound Center, Rapture and Studio Instruments.

If you have jBridge installed it will let you use these sound sources with Band-in-a-Box.

Another way to get around the limitation is to go into Sonar Command Center's settings and enable the check box for a "Verbose Install". Then when you run Command Center the program asks if you want to perform a 32 or 64 bit install. Install the 32 bit program and content then delete anything you don't want.

jbridge won't help with TTS-1, because it is a DXi synth. jbridge only works with VST/VSTi plugins.

If you have a pre-Sonar by Bandlab version or even Music Creator, you'll need to install the 32-bit version of the program so that you can get the 32-bit version of TTS-1 (both 32-bit and 64-bit versions of Sonar can co-exist on the same machine).

Otherwise, you can still purchase the Coyote Forte. It's not the best, but it's not bad. I prefer TTS-1, but I do occasionally use Forte.

A free option is to get Synthfont VST and load up a soundfont. Again, not the greatest, but you can still get pretty good sounds for General MIDI.

While Coyote WT works, it really is there just to have something (better than nothing) to generate MIDI sounds. I have it loaded, but I don't use it.

EVERYTHING John said.

Also look here if on a tight budget and only want GM stuff right now, and you aren't in market for $$$ Kontakt, Komplete, Sampletank, Omnisynth, UVI, then I would also suggest for $25 you can get a LOT of sounds, a lot of GOOD sounds in multiple formats for same price (i.e., you can get one or more for same $25).

http://www.dskmusic.com/high-quality-instruments/

Not only that but in the additional (bonus) 950 sounds there is a dedicated GM sound set you could use in Synthfont VST. And all of the SF2's/SFZ’s can be using in Sforzando, and tools like Synthfont VST or Coolsoft Virtual MIDI synth (which acts not like a VSTi plugin - it acts like external MIDI Hardware).

There is also a link here to another FREE now multi-timbral soundfont player (like Synthfont VST) by rgc: Audio called SFz+ see this thread

http://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=476009&Searchpage=1&Main=69369&Words=SFZ%2B+triangle&Search=true#Post476009

And here’s the link (it’s in Spanish SFz+ link is towards bottom and still active)

https://selecciondefinitiva.com/2018/04/05/triangle-i-ii-sfz-y-square-de-cakewalk-rgc-audio-guardados/


Good Luck
Larry

I'm installing the 32-bit version of Sonar right now, so I can get the two DXi's TTS-1 and Roland's GrooveSynth in 32-bit format. I use TTS-1 a lot in Sonar and GrooveSynth a fair amount.

Larry, I already have SFz+ installed -- and configured to show up within Sonar. I haven't used it yet. I have browsed through its instrument selection a couple of times, but didn't find what I was looking for. Accordion and French Horn, as I recall. If SFz+ has those patches, then I must not have cared for the way they sounded.

Thanks for the DSK link, Larry. I have some DSK VSTi's already, but haven't made use of them yet. Your link is offering something different, however. I don't really know how to proceed, though. It offers eight different -- I don't know what to call them -- "Interface Configurations?" and I don't know which to select that will work with both BiaB and Sonar. Not Sample Tank, though. I have a registered copy of ST and I've never been able to get it to work. So, far as I'm concerned, ST is vaporware. Maybe SFz, since i already have SFz+ installed?

1. If you want to try the DSK and selection seems daunting just get the SFZ format (but he will give you links TO more, or even all, formats if you ask him in email). SFZ format works in both SFZ+, Sforzando, VST Synthfont and other tools of course all would use SF2s as well but SFZ+ and Sforzando would [convert] SF2 to SFZ anyway (without more geek speak, SFZ format is "more native" to those applications)

2. When it comes to Sampletank are you talking about the older FREE ST 2.5? I use ST 3 now but still have ST 2.5 installed and working in ALL my DAW's (RB, SPLAT, FL20, Studio One, Reaper, Cubase, Mixcraft,...) so we'll need to work on that for you at some point (one thing at a time) even if only the free version.

3. If you want EASY access to both 32-bit and 64-bit TTS-1 (64 for other apps) there is a thread here that explains what looks complicated but really is not, it's just tedious preform just the one time, and then you get easy access to both DXi's - just not at SAME TIME.

http://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=282967&Searchpage=2&Main=40443&Words=TTS-1&Search=true#Post282967


bottom line you have to install sonar twice to get it to install both the 32 bit TTS-1 DXi and the 64 bit TTS-1 DXi - but each install of Sonar OVERWRITES the previous TTS-1 DXi that's why all the gymnastics. Yes, you'll have to install Sonar twice more assuming you want to run Sonar as 64-bit but want access to both 32 bit and 64 bit TTS-1.

NOTE, this will NOT work with the new free Cakewalk by Bandlab because it is 64-bit ONLY


Good Luck
Larry

For the DKS HQ Sounds, choose the format you want; then send the author a message and ask for links to the other formats you are interested in. Whether you use them or not, I would get them just to have.

If you have Kontakt, definitely get those; even if you don't have Kontakt, get them (they'll be free) and if you ever buy Kontakt, you'll have them.

The SFZ versions will play fine in both SFZ+ and Sforzando, as well as the Aria Player (which you have if you have any Garritan libraries).

The SF2 sounds will work in a Soundfont VST (such as Synthfont). And if you also download Viena from the Synthfont site, you can create your own banks of SF2 sounds.

To me, this was a no-brainer.

Thanks guys. I ordered the SFZ+ format voices. I think I'll be fine with these, since I can use them with SFZ+ or Sforzando -- which I use a lot in both BiaB and Sonar. I also use Aria some, so that's also a possibility I guess.

Well, now I have all these individual files to unzip and then locate some place logically. I'll let y'all know how it works out.

I discovered something that makes the DSK voices very easy to access within Sforzando. I dunno, maybe I missed a help file where this was outlined, in which case I guess I'll just say "Never mind." But in case I haven't read on.

First of all, I loaded Sforzando into Sonar, mostly because of the song I'm currently working on. I don't think it really matters which platform it's running from within.

Regarding the voice files, here's what I did initially:

After you make your purchase, you're provided a .pdf with links to fourteen archives, all of which are in .zip format. So first thing was to unzip everything, of course. You wind up with fourteen folders that contain your instrument files. I copied all of these folders into a single folder that I labeled "Sound Files" for lack of a better term. Inside each of these folders is a bunch of individual .sfz files and one "Samples" folder that contains sample wave files. Some of these folders will contain additional subfolders.

So when I first started playing around with the sound files, I tried loading a single file at a time from within one of the folders. This worked fine, but man would it take forever if I was browsing through a bunch of 'em. So I clicked on the Settings tab in Sforzando and saw "User files path:" with a "SET" button next to it. Hrm, I thought. SO I clicked on that, and tried loading one of the folders into this area. And, yep, it took it just fine. When I went up to the "Instrument" bar on top, now there appeared a "User" category at the bottom. So I clicked on it, and there were all the sound files for that folder.

So I gave it a go, and Sonar/Sforzando were playing the files perfectly.

Well, cool, I thought. But it was only one folder. So, hrm . . . I thought again. What about the whole "Sound Files" folder, which contains all of the DSK folders? So that's what I did -- I just listed only the Sound Files folder in the "User files path"

Well, it looked real impressive. When I clicked on "User" the whole shebang of Music file folders was on display and when I clicked on a folder, all of its instruments were revealed. So, I went to give it a try with any instrument -- well, I had one in particular that I'd been looking for for a while now -- a nice example of French Horn. So I navigated over to the General MIDI folder -- "GM Instruments" it's called, and it has four sub-folders, one of which is "GM Instruments" (the other three are "GM Drums," "GM extra fx," and "GM extra instruments"). So I select GM Instruments, which reveals a looong list of instruments. I cursored down and found French Horn, selected it . . .

And up pops an error message telling me it can't find the files! WTF? So, is that the way it is with everything? I wondered. I checked another GM Instrument. Same thing. Checked another, same thing. Then I decided to start at the top of the list and go down through all 50 or more instruments. At the top was "Accordion." Tried it out, it loaded fine. Next was "Acoustic Bass." Tried it out, it was fine too. Next was "Acoustic Grand Piano." Nope, didn't like that one. Then "Agogo." Nope, didn't like that one either. I paged through the next twenty-five or thirty patches and didn't get another single one that would load. I skipped to the last couple of patches. Nope, they wouldn't load either.

I took a closer look at the error popup and it claims it's looking for patches in the samples subdirectory (???) with weird filenames like "pno021v123lew@.wav" -- .wav files when they're supposed to be .sfz? Something's messed up. Really messed up.

So, with a bit of growing trepidation and wondering if I'd wasted twenty-five bucks, I started with the first directory of sounds: Bass. I tried several at random. They all worked fine. Then I went to the next folder. Classic Grand Piano. All those worked okay too. I tried several more, and none of them gave me the same error popups that I was getting with GM Instruments. Well, that was something of a relief. Except! The main reason why I bought this bundle was because I wanted access to better GM sounds than I already had! Grrrr! Fortunately the other selections are full enough where they cover most GM sounds, and then some. But not all.

So I can state, with some reservations, that I have figured out how to have all the sounds easily displayed -- and accessed -- within Sforzando. But I've also found a rather glaring error in the way it's trying to access GM Instruments -- at least within Sforzando. Can't say about other synths.

I'm curious -- if you're using this set of instruments, have you run across this same problem, specifically with GM Instruments? If not, and if you're using something other than Sforzando, I'm wondering why this is happening with Sfortzando but not other synths.

At any rate, I think I'll be sending a note off to the author of this instrument collection, see what insights he might be able to provide.

Oh, and at least I found a good french horn. Found it in the Orchestral section. The selection of guitars is crappy, though. So what else is new . . .

Oops, you're still OK, but somewhat inconvenienced until you email DSK and get the SFZ GM Instro and Orch. VOL 2 sets in SFZ format.

I DID NOT notice before but it SEEMS, I got few DIFFERENT formats than you, that in two of the included collections, the "GM Instruments" and "Orchestra Vol 2" are each in SF2 format no matter what format you ask for – again IT SEEMS that way (probably ought to mention that to him, actually I will and you should also) .

For now NOT a problem but a tedious workaround, (but you only have to do it once until DSK gets back to you).

Just IMPORT them all, yes one at a time, then they'll show up in the converted line “Converted - > SF2 ->”

Unless John has a quick idea??
Larry

I don't think there is a quicker way, unless Pipeline could whip up an import utility (which would probably take him about three minutes).

One more little detail just so if/when you do get the GM SFZ thing sorted out with DSK you, and others, were NOT, I hope, expecting ONE monolithic GM SFZ file - with all 128 patches plus drum kits in one large SFZ GM BANK 0 set.

The "GM Instrument" set is NOT one SFZ, or as you have already seen one monolithic GM SF2 file, that has all ALL 128, plus drum kits (with high bank variations)

Its going to be 126+ individual "primary" GM sound SFZs, around 32 GM drum kit SFZ's, around 32 "extra" GM instruments SFZ's (think higher bank) files, etc. Don't hold me to exact count - I say "around" becasue it may be hair different then the SF2 set or the SFZ set I obtained last year.

Again, if using Sforzando, you can only load one sound at a time anyway, you'll just have to scroll through the 128 GM sounds to the one you want.

Larry

Guys, I should have updated this. I found the solution to my problem with the error messages it was generating. Turns out, when the "GM Instruments" zip file was uncompressed, it forgot to uncompress most of the GM Instruments in the Samples folder. I tried uncompressing the file again, and this time it was successful in uncompressing all the instruments. So, problem solved.

The links that DSK sent me for sfz format are sfz files only. Neither GM Instruments nor Orchestra 2 files are SF2. They're all sfz.

At DSK's website, I watched a demo of the SF2 soft synth and was fairly impressed with its capabilities. And, since it was free, I d/l'd it. Then I sent an email to DSK, requesting the archives in SF2 format, and he sent me a set of links for the SF2 files. I've uncomrpessed about half of them so far and haven't set up SF2 yet, but I will. If it's easier to use than Sforzando, then I'll probably start using it instead.

Michael,
Thanks for letting us know that you resolved this. Your information can assist others also!

I thought I'd pass along a bit of other info I've discovered. You know how most GM listings have an order to them? They start out with pianos and instruments related to pianos, then organs, then a few others, then guitars, etc. Well the DSK Instruments GM Instruments are all listed in alphabetical order. Which can get confusing, if not downright tedious at times.

So I got the bright idea to try and do something about this. The only way I could think of reordering this alphabetical listing was to edit each file so there was a number preceding the filename. So Acoustic Grand Piano became "1 Acoustic Grand Piano" and Bright Piano (or whatever its name is) became "2 Bright Piano," etc.

Given that I'd already had a problem with error messages, I decided not to number the entire list of over 100 instruments, so I checked to see how one would load after numbering only a few. And what did I find, but Sforzando doesn't like for the files to be renumbered.

Too bad. I haven't given up yet, though. I sent an email to the author, asking if there were a way to rearrange the files. Plus, I also have the SF2 utility, which I haven't set up yet. Maybe it will be more amenable to having its file list being reordered.

I'll let y'all know what I find out.