Tobias, not only do I think it's on topic, I also feel it could be taken a step further.
FJ has posted some vocal only video/audios of the actual recordings. There are MANY of these. It might be really useful to use those as additional reference track.
BTW, they have them for many instruments as well.
Great thread.
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
I have a tool in IK Multimedia called "MasterMatch" that will analyze a reference and then give you a starting point for comparison before you begin to "turn the knobs" so to speak.
I have found (and this may tie back to what Jim said earlier about CDs though) that in some cases I am not all that fond of the reference track though I remember liking it at some point in the past.
Has anyone ever had the experience of listening to a reference track and saying "I can do better than that"?
Maybe WAY off topic, I don't know.
Here is an example, from Glen Campbell's last album, the title track Ghost on the Canvas. I loved the song, but it was mixed WAY too hot for my personal tastes--and over-compressed.
I guess what I am saying is the more you study and investigate the more you learn all around.
I thought David Cuny's last post was a study in a great mix. Man you could hear EVERYTHING on that one.
David Snyder Songwriter/Renaissance Man Studio + Fingers
The point I am trying to make is that SOMETIMES I have gone to grab a reference track I THOUGHT would be perfect then learned something about what I didn't want to do.
Funny how learning works when you keep your minds and ears open to unexpected observations and ideas, huh?
Enjoy those pitted olives, remember D minor is the saddest of all keys and say a prayer for Stumpy Joe boys.
David Snyder Songwriter/Renaissance Man Studio + Fingers
David Snyder quote I was shocked when I recently re-listened to Carolina in My Mind by James Taylor and realized it is mostly bass and drums and very faint guitar.
In my memory it was all guitar.
Guess my memory was off!
That's the way good song writing/producing/lyrics/vocals all mixed in to one stereo track should do to all who listen.
I found out that fact by listening ..Instead of commenting.
Last edited by beatmaster; 06/29/1812:00 PM.
win 10 64 bit 16gb,i7 chip, ssd 500gb, m-audio air, ,Roland BK-7M, 1000,shure sm7b,sonar,acid,mixcraft, variety of plugins.Sample tank 3,Kontakt. TC Helicon Voicelive 3 2 . https://beatmaster1.bandcamp.com/releases
Yeah this will be my last one and then I will shut up because I know I am off topic, but it is funny that we sit around sometimes talking about very delicate changes on dials when Jimmy Page was stuffing a mic into a tin can and then putting the tin can and the amp into a box and running the whole thing to a speaker in a nearby bathroom while being totally toasted the entire time.
And we go "is there a free VST plug-in for that?"
Should I do a low shelf on my Waves compressor??
Ha ha ha.
Oh, well. Back to the factory!!!!! Over and out!
David Snyder Songwriter/Renaissance Man Studio + Fingers
There is no correct way or we would never have the historical path that is music today.
Now what song was it the drummer used the fridge instead of drums.
A cardboard box instead of drums.
Granted; for some creative mixes there may not be an example. As a polar example to your cardboard box drums there's Tropea's Muff, with Rick Marotta in left channel and Steve Gadd in right. It's a pretty All-Star band for the day. If it works it works! For the first 50 seconds you'd think this was 1 drummer (with some panning effects) .. but around :45 you can hear them start to play off each other and vary. If I remember you are a drummer and thought you may enjoy this.
They have identical time for most of this performance and play together very well, at least in my opinion.
And to keep this even farther off the topic; here's Ramblin' On deconstructed. My opinion; each track sounds pretty bad on it's own. Put together it's an orchestra.
Back in the day when I worked at General Motors, we periodically used a consultant (Dave Clark - not of the '5' fame, but the somewhat famous audio engineer) who had a great list of tracks for audio system subjective and objective evaluations.
As it turns out, it was also a great list of reference tracks.
The closest thing I can find is Bob Katz' list of dynamically well-mixed and mastered songs. I like some of these songs, so I have made it a point to obtain several on CD.
There's quite a wide variety of music styles in the honor roll that Bob lists.
Reference tracks also work well for the other side of mixing which is arranging. Taking the time to list out the likely tracks, their processing, when and where they appear in the mix and overall song, is also instructive. This takes some patience to audibly deconstruct a mix and arrangement but always worthwhile.
Someone way back in the thread mentioned Led Zeppelin. I was listening to my 2-CD compliation I have of theirs this past week on some really nice in-ear monitors, and it's funny how many times you can hear a squeak coming out of Bonzo's kick drum pedal. LZ has always been about the feel, however - not so much the sound quality.
The most obvious what volume the different instruments should be. I've found that I always overestimate the volume of vocals, and place them too far in the front.
On the other hand, drums are often quite louder that I expect them to be.
But you should match for frequency as well. That means deciding which instruments live in which frequency. There are various tools to help with spectral matching, such as the Reaper's free Spectrum Matcher. While it's not a good idea to simply apply spectral curves, it can be quite instructive!
Once you've decided who gets to live where in the frequency range, the simplest thing to do is high/low pass those instruments outside of that range. It's amazing how much you can remove from an instrument that's never noticed in a full mix.
Finally, reference tracks can tell you how many instruments to use. It's a lot easier to balance a song with fewer instruments, and floyd jane's latest reminded me to put less in, and make more from what I had.
Band-in-a-Box 2026 Video: AI Stems & Notes - split polyphonic audio into instruments and transcribe
This video demonstrates how to use the new AI-Notes feature together with the AI-Stems splitter, allowing you to select an audio file and have it separated into individual stems while transcribing each one to its own MIDI track. AI-Notes converts polyphonic audio—either full mixes or individual instruments—into MIDI that you can view in notation or play back instantly.
Bonus PAK and 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®
With your version 2026 for Windows Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons for FREE! Or upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
The 2026 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 27 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 25 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 12 new RealStyles.
MIDI Styles Set 92: Look Ma! More MIDI 15: Latin Jazz
MIDI SuperTracks Set 46: Piano & Organ
Instrumental Studies Set 24: Groovin' Blues Soloing
Artist Performance Set 19: Songs with Vocals 9
Playable RealTracks Set 5
RealDrums Stems Set 9: Cool Brushes
SynthMaster Sounds Set 1 (with audio demos)
Android Band-in-a-Box® App (included)
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyle.
FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
MIDI Styles Set 93: Look Ma! More MIDI 16: SynthMaster
MIDI SuperTracks Set 47: More SynthMaster
Instrumental Studies 25 - Soul Jazz Guitar Soloing
Artist Performance Set 20: Songs with Vocals 10
RealDrums Stems Set 10: Groovin' Sticks
SynthMaster Sounds & Styles Set 2 (sounds & styles with audio demos)
Join Tobin as he takes you on a tour of the new user interface in Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®! This modern GUI redesign offers a sleek new look with updated toolbars, refreshed windows, and a smoother workflow. The brand-new side toolbar puts track selection, the MultiPicker Library, and other essential tools right at your fingertips. Plus, our upgraded Multi-View lets you layer multiple windows without overlap, giving you a highly flexible workspace. Many windows—including Tracks, Piano Roll, and more—have been redesigned for improved usability and a cleaner, more intuitive interface, and more!
Introducing XPro Styles PAK 10 – Now Available for Windows Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 10 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 28 RealTracks and RealDrums!
Few things are certain in life: death, taxes, and a brand spankin’ new XPro Styles PAK! In this, the 10th edition of our XPro Styles PAK series, we’ve got 100 styles coming your way! We have the classic 25 styles each from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, and rounding out this volume's wildcard slot is 25 styles in the Praise & Worship genre! A wide spanning genre, you can find everything from rock, folk, country, and more underneath its umbrella. The included 28 RealTracks and RealDrums can be used with any Band-in-a-Box® 2026 (and higher) package.
Here’s just a small sampling of what you can look forward to in XPro Styles PAK 10: Soft indie folk worship songs, bumpin’ country boogies, gospel praise breaks, hard rockin’ pop, funky disco grooves, smooth Latin jazz pop, bossa nova fusion, western swing, alternative hip-hop, cool country funk, and much more!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 10 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Introducing Xtra Styles PAK 21 – Now Available for Windows Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest Xtra Styles PAK installment—the all new Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher)!
Rejoice, one and all, for Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box® is here! We’re serving up 200 brand spankin’ new styles to delight your musical taste buds! The first three courses are the classics you’ve come to know and love, including offerings from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, but, not to be outdone, this year’s fourth course is bro country! A wide ranging genre, you can find everything from hip-hop, uptempo outlaw country, hard hitting rock, funk, and even electronica, all with that familiar bro country flair. The dinner bell has been rung, pickup up Xtra Styles PAK 21 today!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Energetic folk rock, raucous train beats, fast country boogies, acid jazz grooves, laid-back funky jams, a bevy of breezy jazz waltzes, calm electro funk, indie synth pop, industrial synth metal, and more bro country than could possibly fit in the back of a pickup truck!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 21 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 21 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 21 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
Introducing XPro Styles PAK 10 – Now Available for Mac Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 10 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 28 RealTracks and RealDrums!
Few things are certain in life: death, taxes, and a brand spankin’ new XPro Styles PAK! In this, the 10th edition of our XPro Styles PAK series, we’ve got 100 styles coming your way! We have the classic 25 styles each from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, and rounding out this volume's wildcard slot is 25 styles in the Praise & Worship genre! A wide spanning genre, you can find everything from rock, folk, country, and more underneath its umbrella. The included 28 RealTracks and RealDrums can be used with any Band-in-a-Box® 2026 (and higher) package.
Here’s just a small sampling of what you can look forward to in XPro Styles PAK 10: Soft indie folk worship songs, bumpin’ country boogies, gospel praise breaks, hard rockin’ pop, funky disco grooves, smooth Latin jazz pop, bossa nova fusion, western swing, alternative hip-hop, cool country funk, and much more!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 10 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Introducing Xtra Styles PAK 21 – Now Available for Mac Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest Xtra Styles PAK installment—the all new Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher)!
Rejoice, one and all, for Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box® is here! We’re serving up 200 brand spankin’ new styles to delight your musical taste buds! The first three courses are the classics you’ve come to know and love, including offerings from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, but, not to be outdone, this year’s fourth course is bro country! A wide ranging genre, you can find everything from hip-hop, uptempo outlaw country, hard hitting rock, funk, and even electronica, all with that familiar bro country flair. The dinner bell has been rung, pickup up Xtra Styles PAK 21 today!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Energetic folk rock, raucous train beats, fast country boogies, acid jazz grooves, laid-back funky jams, a bevy of breezy jazz waltzes, calm electro funk, indie synth pop, industrial synth metal, and more bro country than could possibly fit in the back of a pickup truck!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 21 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 21 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 21 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
One of our representatives will be happy to help you over the phone. Our hours of operation are from
6:00AM to 6:00PM PST (GMT -8) Monday thru Friday, and 8:00AM to 4:00PM PST Saturday. We are closed Sunday. You can also send us your questions via email.
One of our representatives will be happy to help you on our Live Chat or by email. Our hours of operation are from
6:00AM to 6:00PM PST (GMT -8) Monday thru Friday; 8:00AM to 4:00PM PST (GMT -8) Saturday; Closed Sunday.
Dansk
Deutsch - Windows
Español
Français - Windows
Italiano - Windows
Nederlands
Polski
Português
Svenskt
русский
Japanese
Simplified Chinese
Traditional Chinese
Korean