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Oh,and why the deafening silence from PG?
Wendy


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If the 2019 edition comes with 'minor' updates and more R/Videos I will probably give it a miss.
Brian


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I agree, the annual "50 exciting new features" has become a bit of a farce,
BIAB2018 was decidedly underwhelming.

I tend to upgrade in December because it's usually the most economic way to acquire the new RealTracks, but at a current count of around 2400 I probably have more than I need for my purposes.

Having said that, BIAB is now a very mature programme, so it's difficult to see where it can go from here. In my view and for my uses, Video is a blind alley.

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Yep, I have to agree that biab is definitely a mature program now. I quite like the GUI now as well.

Though most of us see little purpose in the new video features in biab, I think we could all agree and thank PGmusic for bringing us this far on the journey with biab, at the moment there is not another software package to match it.


And saves an absolute fortune in studio time as well, as regards making a demo.


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Maybe it should be a product that you buy separate if you use it as a teaching tool, maybe that's what they will do as they would of put a lot of work in it already.


Why doesn't someone from PG music respond to threads like this.

Or why doesn't one of the veterans here on the forum, ask out right to peter himself, am I missing something here, are we not all adults..?.


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I don't know why PG add this feature in their product?
Meanwhile, a lot features users asked for but PG ignore.

Last edited by Vincente; 09/05/18 03:58 AM.

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Originally Posted By: VintageGibson
I agree, the annual "50 exciting new features" has become a bit of a farce,
BIAB2018 was decidedly underwhelming.

I tend to upgrade in December because it's usually the most economic way to acquire the new RealTracks, but at a current count of around 2400 I probably have more than I need for my purposes.

Having said that, BIAB is now a very mature programme, so it's difficult to see where it can go from here. In my view and for my uses, Video is a blind alley.

Vintage


I mostly agree with you but there are places BiaB can improve. 64 bit, a more modern GUI, and opening all channels (so the user can use them as they wish like having 16 RTs/RDs playing in one song) are only a few. But even if BiaB ignores them they could add more RT, MIDI, and combination styles using what they have now: they have proven they can do that with the Xtra styles.

They could have better purchasing titles like Program only, Lite, Pro, and Ultimate and maybe selective packages like MIDI only, RT/RD only or both.

I think that there are a lot of ways PGMusic can improve.

Note: I am not a PGMusic hater. About 99% of my music starts in BiaB and I think it is a fantastic program that could improve. YMMV


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Originally Posted By: beatmaster
..Or why doesn't one of the veterans here on the forum, ask out right to peter himself, am I missing something here, are we not all adults..?.

I would be fairly certain that the staff at PGM know of this thread.


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Originally Posted By: Brian Cadoret
If the 2019 edition comes with 'minor' updates and more R/Videos I will probably give it a miss. Brian

So lets vote again, smile , for all the unhappy C voters:

D) No more videotracks we're forced to pay for, and all these (financial) PG efforts spent on a better BIAB/RealBand thing.

Originally Posted By: VintageGibson
I agree, the annual "50 exciting new features" has become a bit of a farce, BIAB2018 was decidedly underwhelming.Vintage

E) Or as such a cheaper BIAB without being forced to swallow a sour pill. And (partly) our moneys worth of unneeded paid for videotracks value back in cash or even useful freebees. (Well, lets face the music; you had to pay for them separately .... i looked at the videotized videos demo once, and decided 'not for me').

F) oops, that's me, sorry ..... however BIAB is a great thing, indeed the more if all the RT issues with those occasional appearing blackholes, malfunctioning holds, and measure-count errors among things are finally fixed ASAP ... so you can vote F too LoL.

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Originally Posted By: beatmaster
Maybe it should be a product that you buy separate - -


Just what I was thinking.My worry is that if 2019 has lots of (in my case unwanted)VRTs at what I perceive to be at the expense of more real and decent RTs and product fixes,I would give it a miss.Surely that is defeating the object PG.Give theCustomers what they want.
So,split the VRTs off and make them a Buy item.Those who make vids,and I wouldnt think there are that many compared to Arrangers,will then happily pay for them.If it turns out that the uptake is LOW then PG have to assume it was a mitskae in the first place and dump the concept.My hubby says it reminds him of the Edsel. (I had to go and look it up! D'Oh!)
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If a newbies opinion matters, I probably have no use for the video RT at present. It wasn't the addition of same that made me so desirous of buying the program. I only waited so long for practical reasons and financial reasons.

I wasn't in the market in 2017, but did the cost of upgrades or new products in 2018 vastly outstrip the cost of same in 2017?

Still, isn't there a function in BIAB at present (or maybe it is in RB) for the insertion of user video? How long has that been available?

I'm not a mind-reader. but all this may be leading into territory incorporating video and music (scoring?). Maybe this is the first few baby-steps into that arena to work out the kinks and further improve over time.

If that's the case, then more power to them. There is a "market" for prosumer music/video integration and if PGMusic can make it easier than existing products then I think they may have a winner on their hands eventually.


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Just to add, I will likely "use" the video at some point, because there probably isn't a function of BIAB that I won't want to explore. Admittedly, though, at present it is down the list of things I want to try.


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Originally Posted By: Tangmo

I wasn't in the market in 2017, but did the cost of upgrades or new products in 2018 vastly outstrip the cost of same in 2017?

There have been a few changes in names of packages making a direct comparison inexact, but basically prices are the same.


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Originally Posted By: WendyM
Oh,and why the deafening silence from PG? Wendy

It's still quiet out on the Western Front. Must be a long PG staff meeting, maybe about firing a General? LoL. F

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Hi there,
I followed this lively discussion. I've hardly looked at the video functions so far. To join in the discussion, I have now taken some time to explore this function in more detail. But in the end I didn't really make any progress, because there are practically no video tracks for my main music genre Jazz, except for a few guitar and drum tracks.

Generally I find the idea of the video tracks exciting. I play the double bass as my main instrument. And, of course, I do watch Youtube videos of good double bassists to check things out (e.g. in which positions they play certain lines). I think a lot of musicians do that, because there's always something to learn.

There are now no double bass video tracks in BiaB anyway, that will be difficult because of the necessary portrait format. But even if they existed: The technical conception of the video tracks in "Band in a Box" hardly takes into account (for the time being) exactly such contiguous positions of fingerings. The chords are more or less only arranged one after the other according to musical criteria, not according to playing technique. At least in the accompanying guitar tracks there are sometimes very abrupt changes of position visible, which a guitarist would rather not play like this.

If the video concept would actually be optimized in the direction of realistic chord or fingering sequences, I could well imagine a benefit. So I am quite curious if there will be anything else in this view.

P.S.: I dream that Band in a Box could, say, generate a double bass solo played by Ron Carter as a video. But this will probably remain a dream of artifical intelligence.


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BIAB 2118 has a steep learning curve if you have upgraded from 2008 as I have.

Video takes a bit of work to get it going and as a guitarist its easier to learn the solos by ear than try to generate a RealTrack to watch it played - if that's even possible.

Choice of tracks is limited and when i experimented and fond a solo with video i was told i did not have the video although I thought I had bought the whole lot with the latest upgrade.

Too much trouble and too little benefit.

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Brille, thanks for your report. I think BIAB does what you refer to as ‘realistic chord sequences’ pretty well, especially in jazz if you allow it to use Natural Arrangement. But as to ‘realistic fingering sequences’, I think there is a difficulty. BIAB stitches recordings of measures together if you’re using RealTracks. There can be awkward changes in register as well as voice leading. Video of the playing will expose this even more.


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I didn't upgrade my BB 2017, so I can't comment on the video tracks. Having said that, now that I think of it, I fail to see the appeal or advantage of having such a product.

However, PG Music does not owe a response to a thread that are basically unrequested personal opinions.

However, I'd bet a Franklin that we'll see some kind of feedback from a PG Music's spokes-man/woman in the near future, though. wink


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Originally Posted By: Matt Finley
... But as to ‘realistic fingering sequences’, I think there is a difficulty. BIAB stitches recordings of measures together if you’re using RealTracks. There can be awkward changes in register as well as voice leading. Video of the playing will expose this even more.

I believe this concurs with many users' perspectives. The fragmentation in the results of the produced video significantly compromises the usability. I have produced and reviewed many instances. The percussive videos are possibly the most usable, but melodic instruments are challenging and mostly so difficult to follow as to be unusable. I'm trying to keep an open mind - but would still prefer the effort went into bug fixing.


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I noticed, even in the PGM examples, hand movements that would not likely be possible for a real player. This makes the videos jerky and unusable for either learning or production. And it draws attention to a potential weakness of RealTracks...the fact that a generated audio sequence may not even be possible/practical to play on an actual instrument.

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