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I have what might be termed a vintage hardware synth (double-rack mountable, not a controller) that I want to get into the chain.
I bought a new USB interface (simple) that has one standard 3-prong mic input and one standard "guitar patch chord" 1/4 inch input.
Output is by USB to computer and by RCA to speakers/monitors. I am assuming (though do not need it to) that these RCA jacks can also lead to computer if the soundcard accepts them. Of course, it also has a phones jack.
The aforementioned hardware synth has both RCA and "patch chord" I/O.
What I don't know how to do is get midi to the synth. My soundcard is stock with no I/O other than mini-plug for phones/speakers and mic, RCA for speakers and, of course, USB. There is no USB port on the synth. I don't think USB had even been invented when this synth was made.
Is this doable with what I have? If not, what do I need?
Last edited by Tangmo; 09/13/18 12:57 PM.
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Hmmmm.....
I'm slightly confused.....or, I'm misunderstanding your post.
You didn't mention, nor is it clear to me, if you have a keyboard controller to trigger your synth module or not?
Carry on....
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No, I will be using Midi from BIAB or DAW to trigger the synth. I think they call this a synth module.
I had it set up at one time, so I know it's possible. I just don't remember/know how I did it.
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Well...
Admittedly, I'm no Einstein with this midi stuff but I'm not bright enough to envision how that would work.
I was under the impression one still had to have a keyboard controller for BIAB to speak to in order for midi messages/patches to play at all.
I'm no help but look forward to the responses you get to understand how that's actually accomplished.
Me.....I have (3) modules (Proteus FX, Roland MBD-1, Roland MVS-1) triggered by my Monoprice controller.
Back to it.....
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If I read you right it might be doable. You will need a 5 pin MIDI to an USB converter: https://www.amazon.com/TraderPlus-Converter-Synthesizer-Interface-Controller/dp/B079SWVRXT/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?ie=UTF8&qid=1536881558&sr=8-1-spons&keywords=midi+usb+adaptor&psc=1They cost $11 USB. Plug that into your computer and select BiaB to export MIDI to it. I do this only in my DAW so I have no idea how to do this in BiaB. Now if you only want to hear your hard synth then you can run your outputs to your amp and speakers. But if you want to record that synth then you will need a way to get the audio into the computer. If your synth is mono then you are all set. Just run the synth audio output into your into your mic jack on your audio interface, this assumes that your mic input will also take a 1/4" plug.. But if the synth is stereo and you want to keep it stereo then you will need an audio device with two line inputs. If you also want to record your vocals and guitar you will need an audio interface with enough inputs to accommodate everything. Or you can do it in a DAW. Record your MIDI, then on another track record your guitar, and on another track record your vocal. Again if your synth is mono you may be all set to go now. Personally I would do this in a DAW; remember RealBand is a DAW and it is capable of doing this. I have very little knowledge of RealBand as I use another DAW so someone else will have to help you with this. Good luck.
When you are at the checkout line and they ask if you found everything say "Why, are you hiding stuff?"
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You're right, Mario. This should be done in a DAW, and on separate tracks/takes. That's why I went with cheap and simple.
There is a line/instrument switch by the 1/4" input of the USB interface. I failed to mention this. I should select "line" if receiving audio from the synth?
Should I, if I want to record a stereo signal, get a small mixer or (God forbid) a different USB interface? Or will the "line" or "instrument" setting take care of this by itself? I guess I can find out when it's all plugged in, but I'll be a long way from intelligible help when I do.
Your method sounds workable, and affordable. All I could hope for!! Thanks.
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What tyoe of synth do you have? I have a Moog Sub 37 that I was able to connect via midi that would be controlled by recording midi in my DAW.
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A USB-MIDI interface is 100% the way to go, but I would personally avoid those $11 MIDI interfaces like the plague. I've seen more of them fail than work.  An interface by an established company like Roland or M-Audio would still be very affordable, and will be a lot more reliable. We sell the Roland UM-1 here: http://www.pgmusic.com/rolandum-onemk2.htm and pretty much every music retailer will have a few models for similar prices that you'd be able to count on. Tangmo, you'll want to connect the audio out of the synth to the Line Input on your audio interface. Which model of interface, and which synth did you get, by the way? Cheers Kent PG Music
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I got the Scarlett Solo (2nd Gen) 2 in/2 out. About $100 US at sweetwater. The suggestion came from the guy at recordingrevolution.com.
I haven't taken it out of the box, and it MAY be possible to exchange, but I really don't want to do that if I don't have to.
My synth (Synth module) is a Kurzweil 2000RS. I have no real idea how old it is. I bought it used more than 10 years ago. It would take 2 rack-spaces if rack mounted, but it works fine sitting on a flat surface.
I can't detail all the I/O on this beast, but I may take a picture when it's light out.
Kent, I think Mario was just suggesting that 11 dollar adaptor to get midi signal to the synth. You don't think it would work even for that? Or are you talking about something else altogether.
My last set-up sent audio directly to the soundcard for conversion by way of a funky mixer set up and adaptors. Weird as it looked, it worked. I sent midi signal to the synth in my DAW and it output audio through the mixer straight to soundcard and back into the DAW. Both of those were happening at the same time.
Problem is, I don't remember how I sent midi to the Kurzweil. I Just know it had nothing to do with a USB interface. At best, it was some kind of cable/adaptor rig.
So do I need to lose even a $100 investment and buy a different interface? If so, then there's more to consider.
Last edited by Tangmo; 09/13/18 05:01 PM.
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Ooops...sorry, Kent. I thought you were linking me to a different Audio/USB interface. You're linking me to a better USB/Midi interface. Understood, now. Considering how difficult it is to get music gear where I live, this might be a smarter investment.
Question still remains about the Scarlett Solo handling a stereo signal.
Last edited by Tangmo; 09/13/18 05:27 PM.
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BOTTOMLINE:
You need to get MIDI data out to the Kurz and back again
Since PC's do not have any native 5 pin MIDI I/O (and never have) you need to have, on the PC side, some kind of MIDI I/O cable adapter (e.g. Mario's suggestion or teh suggested Roland or the M-audio Uno or....) or some other PC interface box that has MIDI I/O, as well as other features, like a higher end Focusrite Scarlett - starting with the Scarlett 2i4 and higher have MIDI I/O, Presonus units, and others)
============================
In the "OLD" PC days (when your Kurz was an "in" module) PC's had a GAME port (joy stick port) and most used either a "game port to 5 pin MIDI cable" adapter (I still have a few around here somewhere) or we bought a Roland MPU 401 unit or similar (and I have a few of those someplace as well).
BUT Today USB to MIDI is way to go
IF you need a SCSI 100MB Zip drive for sample read and write let me know - LOL
Larry
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My synth (Synth module) is a Kurzweil 2000RS. I have no real idea how old it is. Doing some searching I find there is a K2000 keyboard, K2000R module ('R' may refer to 'rack mount') and your K2000RS. Yours having the "S" is a sampler too. Ebay had one and I checked it out and it's a good looking unit. The K2000 keyboard is 1999....so, the RS model is likely within a couple of years. I hope you were fortunate enough to get manual with it. As of this moment I can not find it online at all. Good luck on your quest....
Last edited by chulaivet1966; 09/13/18 06:57 PM.
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Thanks, Gentlemen. Though it looks like square 1 for actually getting the audio from the synth (I'm positive at least some of those sounds are stereo) into the computer since apparently this interface won't accept a stereo signal unless it's (perhaps) capturing a performance with two (or two types) of microphones.
I'm not even sure about that much.
Maybe a small mixer is the way to go, and more adapters. Maybe a way to send stereo signal hard-left, then hard-right on two separate passes. Maybe send stereo as mono and enjoy the phasing. Maybe more frigging adapters.
Larry, I can probably use those SCSI Zip drives, but only if you have a SCSI to USB adapter...and a USB Hub.
Gear makes my head hurt.
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If you'll pardon me for posting a link to a song not done in BIAB (except credit is due it for introducing me to midi) this is why I'm attached to this synth (apart from the fact I already own it and don't have to pay for it) over software synths I'v messed with. I didn't know (and still don't know) how to get the full functionality of this box. What manual I had for it I barely understood...and it's lost to hard-dive failures now. Remove this post if it breaks the rules. Skip to minute 4:00, if you can...the rest is listenable, but not stellar. This came from a midi performance of the song, run track by track though the synth. The "guitar" you'll hear is the combination of perhaps three or four (maybe more) guitar sounds returned from the Kurzweil, blended in the DAW, with additional effects applied. http://alonetone.com/tangmo/tracks/aqualung-backing-trackCredit to Ian Anderson, guitarist Martin Barre, and whoever made the midi. I don't steal them any more, but he made it for some reason beyond making it sound like a music box. I hope I did him proud.
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I'd recommend you save headaches, money and complexity, return the Scarlett Solo, and get this or something similar (since you clearly have an appreciation for used gear): https://www.guitarcenter.com/Used/Roland/UA22-DUO-CAPTURE-EX-Audio-Interface-114485698.gcUSB-powered with two inputs that can accommodate line/instrument/mic-level signals plus MIDI I/O. Just add cables.
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If what I see on the WEB is the correct device it would appear to have midi in, midi through and midi out. I had an olde device like this once and connected to a pc using an M-Audio midi to USB device (once I got shy of an on board sound card). then used the DAW to either capture from or send to the device. Years prior I had a midi to game port cable in an old Sound Blaster card but that was ages ago when I still had teeth.
The M-Audio UNO USB to MIDI interface is only about $50 in Australia so I would imagine less in the US. It has a MIDI IN plug a MIDI OUT plug and a USB plug plus a little control type device connecting the cables. Very simple and worked a treat.
Last edited by Teunis; 09/13/18 09:17 PM.
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A USB-MIDI interface is 100% the way to go, but I would personally avoid those $11 MIDI interfaces like the plague. I've seen more of them fail than work. ........................... Cheers Kent PG Music That is interesting Kent. I have used a number of them and I have had no problems what so ever. Maybe I've been very lucky.
When you are at the checkout line and they ask if you found everything say "Why, are you hiding stuff?"
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Let me take a different approach.
The Kurzweil is a synth module. It doesn't have a controller built-in. I could hook up a cheap Casio to it and get it to work. That's not how I'll be using it. The "controller" I'll be using is the DAW sending midi to the Kurz.
What comes out of the Kurz is analog audio (and almost always--if not always) in stereo. I could hook speakers up directly to the Kurz and get sound. That's not what I intend to do, however. I want to send the analog audio back to the computer/DAW to be recorded on another track. Of course, somewhere along that chain it will have to be digitized.
I am sure the Kurz can also send/pass midi signal to another device...including the computer/DAW. But that's not what I want to do. I want to get the audio it's sending digitized and back to the DAW.
So is a USB/Audio interface with Midi I/O essential? What's going to go "in"? Analog Audio or Midi? If it's analog Audio, can I be sure it's stereo?
I think Mario's broad suggestion/understanding is the way I'll go, though I may spring for a brand-name interface. It's not going to break me. But I will consider an Audio/USB interface with midi I/O if that will indeed get Analog Stereo from the synth back to the DAW in one step.
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Caveat - I'm making some assumptions here, as I don't have the equipment in question, but logically, I believe this will work.
Connect the USB-to-MIDI connection you are going to buy to a USB port on the computer and then with a 5-pin MIDI cable, connect it to the MIDI IN on the Kurzweil unit.
Connect the Scarlett Solo to another USB port on the computer. Connect your speakers or headphones to the Scarlett output (so you can hear what you are doing. You will use the Scarlett as your "sound card".
Connect the audio output of the Kurzweil to the audio input of the Scarlett Solo.
In your DAW, select the USB-to-MIDI connection as your MIDI OUT (so that MIDI data gets sent there.
In your DAW, select the Scarlett as your Audio IN and your Audio OUT (which will occur across the two way connection on the USB cable). That way, you can record sounds from your Kurzweil into your DAW. And anything you play from the computer will be heard on the speakers (or headphones) connected to the Scarlett.
If you want to record a guitar or vocal connected to the Audio IN on the Scarlett, you will will have to disconnect the Kurzweil unit from your Scarlett, since it only has one stereo input. So you can only do one at a time.
That way the routing for recording MIDI will be:
MIDI data on a track in the DAW software --> out to the Kurzweil unit --> which creates the MIDI sounds in the Kurzweil unit --> and sends it out the audio output of the Kurzweil --> and into the audio input of the Scarlett --> and from there the audio can go back into the computer to record and/or be played back out the speakers of the Scarlett.
Hope that made sense.
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