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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Hi, have been more than happy with the real tracks side of this software for producing backing tracks for my acoustic guitar/vocals but want to add some finer details to the songs with the use of midi.
My very old midi keyboard controller has crashed so looking for advice on what to look for, whether I go for on board sounds and if so, can I use those sounds with BiaB? For the main, I guess I am looking to add those recognisable riffs in some songs to make it sound closer to the tune.
For the very small time I have put into midi I am struggling to work it out but will cross that bridge again when I am up and running with something to play with.
Appreciate your thoughts.
Cheers
BIAB 2022 UltraPAK
Xtra packs 1,2,3,4,5,6,13
2019 and 2018 49pak
Asus Zen Book UX533F 1TB ssd
Windows10 pro, 16g i7 64bit
Allen and Heath Z10fx mixer
Alesis V25 controller
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You most likely will be happy with any modern, name brand keyboard such as Casio, Yamaha, Roland, Korg or Ketron. Most modern keyboards don't have 5 pin midi jacks but instead move midi over USB. I would start by looking at whatever brand your last keyboard was just because you'll have some amount of familiarity to start with.
Lots of online and brick & mortar stores sell most of their keyboards at Christmas time so if you can wait a month or two you will find the best bargains.
Yes you will be able to use the keyboard sound module with Band-in-a-Box but you may end up sending the analog signal into the computer through the line-in connection on your computer so, if that is important to you, make sure whatever keyboard you purchase has line out ports (normally round red and white RCA connectors).
There are a good number of keyboard musicians on this forum so I'm sure they will have additional advice.
Jim Fogle - 2025 BiaB (Build 1128) RB (Build 5) - Ultra+ PAK DAWs: Cakewalk Sonar - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8 Laptop: i3 Win 10, 8GB ram 500GB HDD Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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My 25 year Roland JV30 died about 6 months ago. I wanted a smaller footprint keyboard CONTROLLER only and did not need onboard sounds as I have modules. So....I went with this one which worked right out of the box and worked well with my Midisport 4x4 midi patch bay. No issues for me....judgement call for you.  https://jet.com/product/Stage-Right-by-Monoprice-49-Key-MIDI-Keyboard-Controller-Black/7d0d85803a924485b8378d5671097a50?jcmp=pla:ggl:nj_dur_cwin_arts_crafts_hobbies_a1:arts_crafts_hobbies_musical_instruments_keyboard_accessories_a1:na:PLA_785510785_46694330612_pla-293473586095_c:na:na:na:2PLA15&code=PLA15&pid=kenshoo_int&c=785510785&is_retargeting=true&clickid=69af6ee4-9120-4ffe-8fa1-dbae1bff4693&kclid=69af6ee4-9120-4ffe-8fa1-dbae1bff4693&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIoOCNv_i13QIVl4jICh3P7g55EAYYBCABEgLIo_D_BwE Good hunting......lots of choices out there to check out as Jim Fogle points out.
Last edited by chulaivet1966; 09/12/18 07:23 AM.
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If you want a board with "good" sounds built in be prepared to upwards of $1000 or so. Otherwise, If you want to stick with the software synths and RealTracks all yo really need is a good controller keyboard to input/record/edit midi. I have a Roland JUNO GI but mostly only use it to input midi. Or I simply use a iRig Keys37 for quick and simple stuff. Most of my sounds are coming from RealTracks, SampleTank and a few software synths. Selecting sounds on the JUNO and assigning midi Program Changes per track to get my DAW to play the JUNO for me and such only slowed down my creativity. I get a lot more done by keeping it simple and working inside the box.
Decent controller keyboards are what,. . . $100 - $300?
Does the noise in your head bother me ?
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Thanks for the input. If I went with just a controller keyboard do I need this ‘edrirol’ interface which I currently have?
BIAB 2022 UltraPAK
Xtra packs 1,2,3,4,5,6,13
2019 and 2018 49pak
Asus Zen Book UX533F 1TB ssd
Windows10 pro, 16g i7 64bit
Allen and Heath Z10fx mixer
Alesis V25 controller
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Thanks for the input. If I went with just a controller keyboard do I need this ‘edrirol’ interface which I currently have?
No, MIDI controller keyboards use USB so you just plug it into your computer. But I would not remove the Edrirol. You can still use it for mics, guitars, audio outputs from hard synths/keyboards, etc.
Whenever I get something stuck in the back of my throat, I dislodge it by drinking a beer.
It's called the Heineken Maneuver.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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How many free USB ports do you have on your computer? Mine has 3. 1 is my Audio/Midi interface. 2 is my wireless mouse and computer keyboard. 3. Is the one I use to go back and forth between printer, iRig Keys and a few other things. So, in case you run short on USB ports you might consider a midi keyboard that use midi over USB and also has full midi 5 pin DIN connectors IN, OUT and THRU. Then you have more options. You can use an audio/midi interface that operates on USB but also has 5 pin midi connectors. Connect your keyboard controller to the interface via standard midi cables. Then the keyboard and interface are essentially sharing 1 USB port. It also gives you more options if you ever want to use your controller with other midi hardware. For example; I still have a hardware Edirol SD-20 Synth. I 'can' run it directly on USB but I keep it connected to my audio/midi interface via midi cables to save a USB port and also I only have to choose my interface for my hardware midi in and out in my DAW. I don't have to switch between the two, (and others).
What model number Edirol interface do you have? Does it also have standard midi connections?
Does the noise in your head bother me ?
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Thanks all for your thoughts.
My "Edirol" (generic) is pretty new as my original Blue Edirol would not work with Windows 10.
While the keyboard was working I was at least able to get sounds via this new device. This new controller as the old one, has a USB on one end and 2 x 5 pin midi plugs on the other.
Think a controller keyboard will do the job and that at least will challenge me to get the on board midi sounds working. I have purchased the Coyote software so that should be all I need to get sufficient sounds.
Cheers
BIAB 2022 UltraPAK
Xtra packs 1,2,3,4,5,6,13
2019 and 2018 49pak
Asus Zen Book UX533F 1TB ssd
Windows10 pro, 16g i7 64bit
Allen and Heath Z10fx mixer
Alesis V25 controller
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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I don't know what "Edirol" (generic) means. That's why I ask for the model number. What I'm suggesting is that your current keyboard controller does not work with Windows 10 using the USB connection because there is no driver that makes it compatible with Windows 10. However, your current keyboard controller will work fine with windows 10 as long as you connect the MIDI out and MIDI in to an Audio/MIDI interface.
Example; Behringer UMC204HD interface works with Windows 10 via a single USB connection since Behringer makes a driver that works with windows 10. The UMC204HD has standard MIDI in and out jacks. This means your computer will be reading what is happening at the UMC204HD and doesn't care what midi device you have connected to it. And "voila'" midi in and out to Band In A Box. Well, Midi in is all you really need.
UMC204HD is $80 US at amazon.com.
There are many other audio/midi interfaces that do this.
Since you are headed toward Coyote, a software synth, for your sounds maybe you don't need an external hardware synth at this time. Maybe getting your current midi controller working via midi cables might be the way to go.
For me, I rarely use external hardware synths anymore.
BTW, I think you can get the Cakewalk TTS-1 General Midi software synth for free if you install the free Cakewalk By Bandlab. It is similar to Coyote softsynth and very simple to use.
Does the noise in your head bother me ?
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Thanks Tobias, I had to buy a new midi interface for Windows 10, it wasn’t an Edirol but it worked fine. In the meantime my keyboard which is probably 15/18 years old...at least decided to cease.
Hence my question on where to go next. The interface has no name but has worked. It appears this interface is not now required with th3 USB midi keyboards.
BIAB 2022 UltraPAK
Xtra packs 1,2,3,4,5,6,13
2019 and 2018 49pak
Asus Zen Book UX533F 1TB ssd
Windows10 pro, 16g i7 64bit
Allen and Heath Z10fx mixer
Alesis V25 controller
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Joined: Mar 2004
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A midi keyboard controller with MIDI over USB only is gonna work fine for you. However, there are some I have seen that simply do dot work with windows 10 or even windows 8.x simply because the manufacturer does not make drivers that are compatible. So be sure you read up on the units you are considering.
If you are a piano player you might want to get one with 88 keys. Or you might be okay with 61 keys.
As far as connecting to your computer to record midi tracks, the song characters you mentioned, if that's all you want to do a 49 key controller is probably sufficient and takes up far less space on a desk.
Alesis, M-Audio, Neckar, Akai, Korg, Novation, Edirol, These are all reputable manufacturers. Like I said, be sure to check if they have drivers for windows 10 and read some reviews. I good return policy might alleviate hesitation to make a purchase.
Does the noise in your head bother me ?
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Thanks againTobias, appreciate your post.
Mainly play guitar although I went through 4 years of classical piano at High School,
Hated it but the best thing the folks did for me. Just want to do fills and riffs on the keyboard so I will take your thougts on board when buying this week.
Cheers
BIAB 2022 UltraPAK
Xtra packs 1,2,3,4,5,6,13
2019 and 2018 49pak
Asus Zen Book UX533F 1TB ssd
Windows10 pro, 16g i7 64bit
Allen and Heath Z10fx mixer
Alesis V25 controller
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Joined: Mar 2004
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The way I got the iRigKeys was a few years ago someone on this forum posted info about a sale at IK Multimedia where you get SampleTank 3 free when purchasing one of their iRig Keys. The iRig Keys is pretty flimsy but it works for a lot of what I need. It's very light and small. The keys are very small too. However, I use SampleTank 3 all the time. It has a whole lot of really good sounds in it and is quite easy to use. Since you seem to like RealTracks and are headed for use of software instruments you might check out SampleTank 3. Maybe the have another deal or something.
Does the noise in your head bother me ?
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 223
Apprentice
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OP
Apprentice
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 223 |
BIAB 2022 UltraPAK
Xtra packs 1,2,3,4,5,6,13
2019 and 2018 49pak
Asus Zen Book UX533F 1TB ssd
Windows10 pro, 16g i7 64bit
Allen and Heath Z10fx mixer
Alesis V25 controller
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,173
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Just last week purchased a Novation Launchkey (my olde M-Audio would often lose notes when pressed and I got fed up fixing them). The Launchpad 61 mk2 seems very good. Unfortunately as a control surface one has to configure Sonar by hand but then I don’t use it that way. It does all I want and then some at a very good price less than $300 in Australia. Has quite a bit of software comes with it also including your choice of one of the Addictive Keys programs. In my case Electric Grand as I already had the others. It also has Ableton Live Lite which the keyboard speaks to natively. (Not my cup of tea as I have other DAWs that I prefer.)
It seems one can even use the Launchkey with an iPad.
Tony
Last edited by Teunis; 09/23/18 06:10 PM.
HP i7-4770 16GB 1TB SSD, Win 10 Home,
Focusrite 2i2 3rd Gen, Launchkey 61, Maton CW80, Telecaster, Ovation Elite TX, Yamaha Pacifica 612
BB 2022(912) RB 2022(2), CakeWalk, Reaper 6, Audacity, Melodyne 5 Editor, Izotope Music Production Suite 4.1
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Thanks Tony, will have a look at that option.
BIAB 2022 UltraPAK
Xtra packs 1,2,3,4,5,6,13
2019 and 2018 49pak
Asus Zen Book UX533F 1TB ssd
Windows10 pro, 16g i7 64bit
Allen and Heath Z10fx mixer
Alesis V25 controller
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Wish sent you a PM re the purchase it might help.
Tony
HP i7-4770 16GB 1TB SSD, Win 10 Home,
Focusrite 2i2 3rd Gen, Launchkey 61, Maton CW80, Telecaster, Ovation Elite TX, Yamaha Pacifica 612
BB 2022(912) RB 2022(2), CakeWalk, Reaper 6, Audacity, Melodyne 5 Editor, Izotope Music Production Suite 4.1
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Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: VST3 Plugin Support
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