This problem started a few days ago. Since I have not yet figured out how to change midi channels in the melody track for using several different VST in Kontakt, I resorted to copy the melody to the soloist track, so at least I can have to different VSTi playing the song. It works in BiaB, but when I export the song, only the melody track plays the sound of the VSTi. The soloist track plays only the sound of chosen patch in BiaB midi patches..
Any setting I overlooked here ?
Last edited by Trygve Larsen; 09/26/1811:58 AM.
Forever Grateful, BUT, sometimes pissed of. Trygve "Leo" Larsen BiaB 2020, Windows 8.1, Intel Core i5 CPU, 270GHz, 32 Gb RAM My OLD tracks on Soundcloud; https://soundcloud.com/trygve-larsen My NEW is unpublished The Universe = Uni-verse ie one song.
I don’t want to muddy the waters but you might find my post about using multiple instances of Kontakt or a single instance set up as a multi in Real band . May shed some light on getting the programme to send channel changes to Kontakt It a long post but please read it all to see where I am coming from. Especially the part from Kontakt users read on, towards the bottom of post. Here is the link http://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=63093&Number=421946#Post421946
I don’t want to muddy the waters but you might find my post about using multiple instances of Kontakt or a single instance set up as a multi in Real band . May shed some light on getting the programme to send channel changes to Kontakt It a long post but please read it all to see where I am coming from. Especially the part from Kontakt users read on, towards the bottom of post. Here is the link http://www.pgmusic.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=63093&Number=421946#Post421946
Mike
Thank's for try to help me out here Mike.. I read the other post, but since that was for RB, it did not helped me much.. Except for the KONTAKT part.. I have always wondered why there is 3 different Kntakt DLL in the plugin folder, so now I understand a little more of that.. Trying to play around with it to see what can work..
So far, it seems like BiaB cannot handle multiple instrument trough different channels in same track.. Correct me if I am wrong PG Music... And if I am wrong, please guide us trough it, because it seems like not many forum users knows it also..
The thing with KONTAKT and the VSTi plugin dialog is that it plays the track regardless of what midi channel is set on the track, if set to channel 1.. If for instance, the track is set to channel 2 and I set the Kontakt instrument to 2 also, it does not play...It plays only if set to 1... So, my question is; IF I like to take full advantage of the multi instruments ability in KONTAKT, I need to use another DAW?
Forever Grateful, BUT, sometimes pissed of. Trygve "Leo" Larsen BiaB 2020, Windows 8.1, Intel Core i5 CPU, 270GHz, 32 Gb RAM My OLD tracks on Soundcloud; https://soundcloud.com/trygve-larsen My NEW is unpublished The Universe = Uni-verse ie one song.
Hmmm well as you know the problem stems from only having one vst as the default Synth in BIAB
Midi normally get put on the melody track this uses channel 4. You can check what channels BIAB is using for what, by going to Options preferences Channels.
Any midi data on the melody track gets sent on that channel. If you are using Kontakt as your default synth and with just one instrument it will play the midi from the melody track if you select omni or port A from host ch4. If the Kontakt is a multi instrument then each instrument in the multi can have its own channel. Therefore if the midi in BIAB melody track is a multi channel midi then each track/channel in the midi file will play though the appropriate multi instrument assigned to that channel but the whole lot still gets sent to Kontakt over the melody channel 4 Also remember once you insert Kontakt as your default vsti synth that you will not be able to play the midi BIAB style parts unless you have appropriate voices in the corresponding BIAB part channels as above channel preferences in your multi.
Hope this is some help I will have a play tomorrow as it is 3 am in the morning here and time for some nod methinks, Mike
Are there multiple MIDI channels playing on the Soloist track?
Personally, if I needed more than 7 tracks, I'd just use RealBand.
Thanks Kent PG Music
Thank's for dropping in Kent.. No, there is only one midi channel on the Solo track and one in the Melodist track. I don't actually need more then 7 tracks and I don't like also Real Band much.
The only I want is to have the ability to load a Kontakt multi instrument library and let different instrument play in different chorus... Is this not possible in BiaB? I mean, if I change the channels in the Event list window, should not that send the midi in that channel to the Kontakt instrument I give that channel number? If it should by default, what do I do to make it work for me?
Forever Grateful, BUT, sometimes pissed of. Trygve "Leo" Larsen BiaB 2020, Windows 8.1, Intel Core i5 CPU, 270GHz, 32 Gb RAM My OLD tracks on Soundcloud; https://soundcloud.com/trygve-larsen My NEW is unpublished The Universe = Uni-verse ie one song.
Hmmm well as you know the problem stems from only having one vst as the default Synth in BIAB
Midi normally get put on the melody track this uses channel 4. You can check what channels BIAB is using for what, by going to Options preferences Channels.
Any midi data on the melody track gets sent on that channel. If you are using Kontakt as your default synth and with just one instrument it will play the midi from the melody track if you select omni or port A from host ch4. If the Kontakt is a multi instrument then each instrument in the multi can have its own channel. Therefore if the midi in BIAB melody track is a multi channel midi then each track/channel in the midi file will play though the appropriate multi instrument assigned to that channel but the whole lot still gets sent to Kontakt over the melody channel 4 Also remember once you insert Kontakt as your default vsti synth that you will not be able to play the midi BIAB style parts unless you have appropriate voices in the corresponding BIAB part channels as above channel preferences in your multi.
Hope this is some help I will have a play tomorrow as it is 3 am in the morning here and time for some nod methinks, Mike
Thank's for stepping in here Mike.. I am a little confused by this.. Because most of the midi I import that have only one track is channel 1. So if I set Kontakt to channel 1 in the VSTi window and in the selected instrument I load into Kontakt, it will play.. So how come it will play if, as u say, all midi in the melody track will be using channel 4? I checked it and it is as u say. It send on channel 4.. But how come it is still playing when I set channel 1? That confuses me...;)
And BTW I am not using Kontakt as the default synth... For that I use forteDXi...
Forever Grateful, BUT, sometimes pissed of. Trygve "Leo" Larsen BiaB 2020, Windows 8.1, Intel Core i5 CPU, 270GHz, 32 Gb RAM My OLD tracks on Soundcloud; https://soundcloud.com/trygve-larsen My NEW is unpublished The Universe = Uni-verse ie one song.
Quote “And BTW I am not using Kontakt as the default synth... For that I use forteDXi...”
I have a song loaded at the moment. I have a default midi VST synth set to look after the style. I have use VST/DXI synth ticked, and Route midi thru to midi driver un ticked in my midi settings. I have a Kontakt electric piano as my synth on the melody channel as a plug in To hear / set this, I use the plug in tab in the mixer to allow me to click on the plug in on the melody ch and bring up its Gui here I can select Omni or PortA from host ch 4 As this is the channel that the melody track uses..
Also I have the strings track (old default name) which is part of the style with Kontakt plug in. set to play a Choir morph a-e. Kontakt is set to PortA from host ch 7, as this is the channel for the strings track from BIAB. All works well at this stage can you get this far?
One more Gotcha, If you have ever used higher bank voices from a pat file on the track that you decide to insert Kontakt plug in . it will have caused the track channels shown under the preferences channel to include the necessary bank change msb for that track, when you saved the file. Kontakt wont understand this, both msb and lsb must be 0 Simple way to do this is by choosing any Gm voice for that track that will set 0 0 As you will be choosing your voice in Kontakt .
Are you trying to get the Melody and Soloist tracks to both play using Kontakt, but with different sounds, and during different parts of the song?
Or are you trying to have the Soloist track itself use different sounds during different sections of the song, using Kontakt?
The former would be fairly easy to set up, the latter would be tricky though.
Thanks Kent PG Music
Thank's for reaching out to me Kent... Actually, I just want the melody play with one sound from my Kontakt library in chorus 1, then another sound in chorus 2, then another in chorus 3 a.s.o. OR just alternate between two sound during many chorus. But since I could not figure out how to do it, I tried to copy the melody to the soloist track, to alternate mute and set back to normal those two tracks during the song. But that did not work also...
So, since u says alternating between melody track and soloist track would be fairly easy to set up, could u guide me trough it step by step please? Using Kontakt as VSTi?
Forever Grateful, BUT, sometimes pissed of. Trygve "Leo" Larsen BiaB 2020, Windows 8.1, Intel Core i5 CPU, 270GHz, 32 Gb RAM My OLD tracks on Soundcloud; https://soundcloud.com/trygve-larsen My NEW is unpublished The Universe = Uni-verse ie one song.
Hi again Hope you don't mind me jumping in again. Well I managed to do just that
I had an Mgu with a midi melody. I copied that to the soloist track So 2 identical midi tracks. I used the plug-in dialogue to insert a separate instance of Kontakt into both the melody and soloist tracks
On the melody track under the plug in tab in the mixer I brought up Kontakt and chose a voice, as this data will be coming from the melody track I chose port A from host channel 4 as the input.
Then the same for the soloist track choosing my other voice in Kontakt but this time chose port A from host channel 8 to match the soloist tracks output channel.
After that set every 4 bars just for fun to mute one and use the other with F5 Works a treat.
I found this easier than trying to use a multi instrument in Kontakt But you are limited to the 2 tracks. Mike
^ That's exactly what you should do, have a separate instance of Kontakt on each track.
Since most of the memory used by Kontakt would be taken up by the samples rather than the plugin itself, I wouldn't expect two instances of Kontakt, with one sample set loaded in each one, to use much more system resources than one instance of Kontakt with two sets of samples (though I haven't used Kontakt in a while so might be mistaken).
If you don't want to have to worry about which MIDI channel each track is on, you can select "Forced MIDI Channel = 1" in the second drop-down menu in the Plugins window, that'll force any notes on that track to channel 1 before they reach the plugin, then just select the sound you want on the first slot in Kontakt, which uses MIDI channel 1.
That "Forced MIDI Channel" option is handy, as it saves you from having to remember the channels, or refer to Options - Preferences - Channels to figure out which slot to use.
Hi again Hope you don't mind me jumping in again. Well I managed to do just that
I had an Mgu with a midi melody. I copied that to the soloist track So 2 identical midi tracks. I used the plug-in dialogue to insert a separate instance of Kontakt into both the melody and soloist tracks
On the melody track under the plug in tab in the mixer I brought up Kontakt and chose a voice, as this data will be coming from the melody track I chose port A from host channel 4 as the input.
Then the same for the soloist track choosing my other voice in Kontakt but this time chose port A from host channel 8 to match the soloist tracks output channel.
After that set every 4 bars just for fun to mute one and use the other with F5 Works a treat.
I found this easier than trying to use a multi instrument in Kontakt But you are limited to the 2 tracks. Mike
Hi again Mike.. No, I don't mind it at all.. I appreciate it.. Did u try to save it? Because that is the problem. In BiaB, it works, but when saved, it does not. Only the melodist track give the sound in Kontakt. The soloist gives the selected BiaB patch... So must be some setting I overlook if u make it work when saved.... I have done the same as u with the channels. Melody on 4 and solo on 8...
Forever Grateful, BUT, sometimes pissed of. Trygve "Leo" Larsen BiaB 2020, Windows 8.1, Intel Core i5 CPU, 270GHz, 32 Gb RAM My OLD tracks on Soundcloud; https://soundcloud.com/trygve-larsen My NEW is unpublished The Universe = Uni-verse ie one song.
Hi No problem with the saved MGU here just a normal save as , because I worked on a previous simple version, that I still wanted.
I now have a song mgu with three separate instances of Kontakt inserted .using a different patch in Kontakt for each instance.
One is on, one of the midi style tracks the string track (old default name) this uses ch 7 One on the melody track and one on the soloist track using ch 4 and 8 respectively. Switching between them with the bar settings mute and back to normal functions alternating. Mike
Hi No problem with the saved MGU here just a normal save as , because I worked on a previous simple version, that I still wanted.
I now have a song mgu with three separate instances of Kontakt inserted .using a different patch in Kontakt for each instance.
One is on, one of the midi style tracks the string track (old default name) this uses ch 7 One on the melody track and one on the soloist track using ch 4 and 8 respectively. Switching between them with the bar settings mute and back to normal functions alternating. Mike
A little unclear to me here.. U did not say that u saved it as Wav og other sound out, then played it back in a mediaplayer, and the different Kontakt sound was all there?
Forever Grateful, BUT, sometimes pissed of. Trygve "Leo" Larsen BiaB 2020, Windows 8.1, Intel Core i5 CPU, 270GHz, 32 Gb RAM My OLD tracks on Soundcloud; https://soundcloud.com/trygve-larsen My NEW is unpublished The Universe = Uni-verse ie one song.
Hi I have just tried that , And it works fine just Export song as audio file under the audio menu I chose wav played fine in media player. Here is a link to the Audio wav file first you get organ and piano from the soloist and melody tracks then later it alternates between piano and organ, returning to both for the end,
Also done it again with the one file for each track option, and imported into Cakewalk Fine here as well, and you can clearly see in the Cakewalk tracks where the different instruments come in and out. Between the melody and soloist track See pic. If you Zoom your browser you should be able to see the track names in the image.
Hm... Just to show u guys why I am very confuded about this channel things, I wrote down step by step what I am doing and the result of it;
1. Open Biab fresh 2. Generate melody including chords 3. Checking sequencer. It shows melody generated on channel 1. 4. Checking Midi monitor. It shows melody sending on channel 4. 5. Inserting VSTi Sforzando without choosing any forced channel and chose flute. It plays the flute sound. 6.. I select forced channel 1. It stills play the flute sound. 7. Checking midi monitor again. It shows midi is sent on channel 4. 8. I try forced channel 2-8. It still plays the flut sound on all.. 9. I go in the sequencer and change the channel to channel 4. Still sound even the VSTi are on forced channel 8. 10. I generate a solo in the soloist. Checking the sequence and the solo is generated on channel 4. 11. I select again the Sfotzanto VSTi for the soloist track and chose flute with out any forced channel. The solo plays the flute sound.. 12. I check the Midi monitor and the solo is played on channel 8, despite sequencer says channel 4. 13. I try all the forced channel from 1-8 and it plays the flute sound on all of them.. 14. I save the track as Wav, and observe it says on the top of the windows; Writing DXi to disk, or something. Listen to the rendered track and only the melody gives the flute sound from VSTi. The soloist gives a trombone sound... Is the culprit here? 14. I change the VSTi on the melodist track to Kontakt. When try to load a instrument from my library, a window popping up, saying; Kontakt 5 has encountered a major problem and has been terminated. A crashlog file has been created and blablabal... I click ok and another window popping up and saying auxhost64exe has stopped working.. 15. I load another VSTi in the melody track, and it plays the right sound. Without changing anything. I do the same for the soloist track, and it also plays the VSTi sound... 16. I save the song again as Wav and same result a point 14... 1 I went to the soloist track and clicked track action and set track to default setting, then save track as Wav file. The result is still no VSTi sound... I shutted Biab down again...
So what is all this mess about Channels about? Seems like it does matter at all.. Is this different result then u other guys have by doing exactly the same? Or is it my BiaB that is messed up somewhat?
Forever Grateful, BUT, sometimes pissed of. Trygve "Leo" Larsen BiaB 2020, Windows 8.1, Intel Core i5 CPU, 270GHz, 32 Gb RAM My OLD tracks on Soundcloud; https://soundcloud.com/trygve-larsen My NEW is unpublished The Universe = Uni-verse ie one song.
Yes indeed It sounds as if you have made the VSTi Sforzando the default synth by inserting it In the top slot on opening the window,
You must choose the melody or soloist track on the left hand side of the window
By default the window comes up with the default track selected, but you should leave this as your usual default synth in the top slot
To get single instances of synths on some channel for say melody and soloist Next click on melody or soloist track button on the left, and the top slot will be empty this is where you put the vsti that you want to use for the melody Then do the same for the soloist track again the top slot will be empty insert your synth.
This now means that all tracks except the melody and soloist will go to the default synth, and the melody and soloist tracks will go to their individual instances of you your selected vsti synths,
All channels will be as shown in the midi channel under options channels,
I have to come back to this topic. It was just to much that did not made any sense to me.. So I decided to reformat my desktop and reinstall everything again, to make sure it was not my computer that messing things up for me.. It will probably take a few days before I am back in the ride... But thank's a lot for trying to help me out here Mike...
Forever Grateful, BUT, sometimes pissed of. Trygve "Leo" Larsen BiaB 2020, Windows 8.1, Intel Core i5 CPU, 270GHz, 32 Gb RAM My OLD tracks on Soundcloud; https://soundcloud.com/trygve-larsen My NEW is unpublished The Universe = Uni-verse ie one song.
Hi again Sorry you are still having problems and have decided to re install good luck with that. However as this post has become a bit long and fragmented I have pulled it together as a single sheet of instructions for inserting Kontakt on Melody and Soloist .
First set up BIAB for normal; every day use, under the midi settings page. Tick the box for, use vst /dxi synth Un tick the box, route midi through to midi driver Choose your default midi synth this needs to be a GM synth with all the basic midi voices available so at least the coyote wave table if you have no other favourite GM synth that you use. I am assuming you have the Audio side set up re drivers and interface etc.
You should now be able to play any all midi style, and hear all parts. It will also play any general midi voices that you have set for the melody or soloist parts via the default Synth at this stage, (as I say a normal set up)
I find it easiest to do the next bit under the Plugins dialog . All the tracks are down the left hand side of the pop up window.
Just to check all is well click on the bottom one, “Default synth” you should see your chosen default in the top slot.
Now click on the melody track the top slot will be empty but at this stage it will still play the default synth. Now insert KONTAKT 5 in its top slot Load a single instrument into KONTAKT select the Kontakt input channel to Port A from host channel 4 , channel 4 is the one that BIAB sends its melody data out on.
Now click on the Soloist track and insert another instance of Kontakt in the Soloist top slot, choose your Kontakt instrument and set the input to Port A from host channel 8, channel 8 is the one that BIAB sends its Soloist data out on.,
Ok if you now have your midi data on melody track it should play with the Kontakt voice for the melody track as set in Kontakt.
If you were to have another copy of your melody data on the Soloist track that will play with the Kontakt voice for the soloist track as set in Kontakt. You can now switch them in and out with the mute and back to normal functions of the F5 bar settings in BIAB.
You may also set other instances of Kontakt to play any style part with a Kontakt instrument instead of the default synth.
I have put a printable doc and pdf copy of this on my web site in My Technical Articles section here:
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