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OK, by now i'm really fed up with this: quite a few Realtracks cannot work with beat count changes within a song file ... OLD REALTRACK BUGS THAT NEVER HAVE BEEN FIXED:
see 2 quoted posts i made below, of many others i sent in over the years; one FROM way back in 2011: (subject:track rendering errors versus chord position ....) With BIAB 2011 and the first bar set to 2/4 i keep getting chord rendering errors: after a few bars the rendered track chord change comes a bar too late, re-rendering does not change this ...... Hi Supporters. After upgrading Biab from 2012 to 2013 audio edition, an old Biab bug still keeps pestering on; i complained before about it, and it still makes using the program pretty useless for my goal as tryout platform and sending out demos toward hired musicians before recording stuff for real. I really wonder if your beta testers can't do any better before a release.
THE BUG described AGAIN: If you switch to 2/4 for one bar i bar-settings, and back to 4/4 the next one, the realtrack generated happily keeps it's 4/4 counting totally ignoring the inserted bar-setting switchings, and is as such 2 beats late after that definitely. For me this is a major bug and pretty annoying, i did not use 2012 for demo building for that reason very much. Annoying yes, also regarding all the money i spent on Biab since them ole Atari days. -F.
PS i used RT130, fiddle shuffle. I posted many more similar 'complaints' since, and sent many frozen tracks with added information to support@pgmusic.com over the years, and never had replies which solved these issues; though some staff members occasionally replied, even Peter in 2013. There have apparently been no downloadable fixes with RT updates so far, and my guess must be then that they cannot, or don't want to fix matters at PG LoL .... these fixes could be very welcome, AND I DON'T NEED ANY VIDEOTRACKS, just a working BIAB doing the jobs i want it to do without annoying old bugs. If anybody wants to experiment: some RTs i use for generating backing tracks that mal-function are: 593,594,595,596, 428,429,430, in this case for me all useful fiddle stuff ......... And MANY more RTs behave in the same way. F
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Im starting to consider whether to buy the 2019 when itcomes out.One thing really bugs me,sorry for the pun,is that everything is new this,new that,more this, more that but existing faults dont get fixed.
I dont use BB to depth of some.I jst want it to work as advertised.I have moaned on about typically Rt1841 playing bizarre random unmusical nonchords but nothing seems to get done.
So PG hows about this years announcement not only saying how much wonderful NEW stuff there is but LIST ALL THE BUG FIXES.
Double dog dare you ;-)
Wendy
BiaB2022PLUS,927. every extras pack I can find ;-),Sonar7XL,Win 10
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SO hear us PGmusic .......
!!! FIX ALL THOSE OLD BUGS FIRST !!!
AND PLEASE THIS TIME BEFORE COMING UP WITH MORE AND MORE FEATURES, ESPECIALLY THOSE WE DON'T NEED !!!
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I have no intention of agitating, but in my view, bug fixing has never been a strong point  . I just don't know why. YMMV.
BIAB & RB2025 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones
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So we must keep on bugging them 'bout all them bugs ... help from a wellknown bug fixer?: 
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Im starting to consider whether to buy the 2019 when itcomes out. I was just thinking the same thing. I love the program and have upgraded every single time since my first purchase in 2012. But in that time there has been very little in the way of fixes and improvements. The only two things I can recall that excited me, minor GUI upgrade and ability to rename tracks something besides their defaults. But I quickly reverted to the old GUI and as soon as I realized the track naming is not consistent throughout the program I reverted that "feature" too. My recent upgrades have been only to get the RealTracks but I'm starting to think I have enough of those and may wait this upgrade out too unlesss they actually fix lots of the real issues.
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Hi
I agree with JOHNS post above re the Gui and the Track naming, very confusing when so many sub routines use the legacy track names.
And yes it would be nice to have some old outstanding bugs fixed,
BUT WE SHOULD NOT HAVE TO BUY AN UPGRADE TO GET BUG FIXES.
Note I am saying fixes to existing, not extra functions.
Surely upgrades are for more useful and improvement to existing features , styles realtracks etc.
Just my thoughts,
Mike
Last edited by Mike Head; 10/02/18 11:21 AM.
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With every respect to all involved in this thread, I have a different opinion regarding fixing bugs, etc. I'm pretty sure that some problems are easier to fix than others and that some problems must also have greater priority than others. What I have noticed over the years is that with every new update that is released, Andrew always includes a list of fixes that have been made. For BIAB 2018, a summary of PG Music's list of fixes, etc., found at this page gives the following... Number of fixes = 128 Number of new additions = 12 Number of improvements = 15 Number of updates = 10 TOTAL = 165 modifications (and I suspect there are many minor modifications that just 'get done' without being noted) Regards, Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2024
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I agree and I know that some think I'm a total fanboy and do nothing but poopoo all these issues. Nothing could be further from the truth. Years ago I was writing in Fiddler's style, well almost haha. Now I know how PG handles these things and I just think it's a waste of time to keep going on and on about it, that's all. It not that I don't realize these issues still exist, oh yes I'm aware of that all right.
We all keep coming back to the fact that nothing does what Biab does in spite of the warts. You get all upset, stop using it and what are you going to do? You come back because it's SO COOL. There's always something in the newest version you like and out of all the new RT's there's always some you go oh WOW, I can really use that one! And so it goes until the hangover caused by buying the newest version wears off and it's back to these old issues not being fixed.
Then next Christmas comes around again and...
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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With every respect to all involved in this thread, I have a different opinion regarding fixing bugs, etc. ....... Number of fixes = 128 Number of new additions = 12 Number of improvements = 15 Number of updates = 10 TOTAL = 165 modifications (and I suspect there are many minor modifications that just 'get done' without being noted) Regards, Noel .... There's always something in the newest version you like and out of all the new RT's there's always some you oh WOW, I can really use that one! And so it goes until the hangover caused by buying the newest version wears off and it's back to these old issues not being fixed. Then next Christmas comes around again and... Bob Well, i wasn't saying that at PG the developers do 'nothing' about bugs, and about adding more and more useful features etc. ... This can of worms opener is about some forever sticking old and annoying RT bugs .... About BIAB; i am a paying customer since Atari days, back then even teaching all sorts of MIDI stuff including BIAB for 15 years at some University's musical course. Guess there must be a reason for me to buy BIAB then ?  Alas i get annoyed again and again when using RTs especially older buggy ones quite useful for me. With a bonus: having to spend a lot of time to repair holes and misbehavior in a DAW afterwards. ... F
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At the risk of sounding naive and maybe even creating greater angst, is it possible to change a RealTrack from 4/4 to 2/4 then back. I would have thought the RealTrack would have been recorded at 4/4 then to change it would require the RealTrack to be changed to a RealTrack recorded at 2/4 and then back to a 4/4 RealTrack. Or at least require a change to the way the 2/4 section is handled by the 4/4 recorded track rather that just a timing signature change.
I may be incorrect after all, only last week I almost made a mistake. I nearly said I was wrong.
Tony
Last edited by Teunis; 10/03/18 12:41 AM.
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At the risk of sounding naive and maybe even creating greater angst, is it possible to change a RealTrack from 4/4 to 2/4 then back. I would have thought the RealTrack would have been recorded at 4/4 then to change it would require the RealTrack to be changed to a RealTrack recorded at 2/4 and then back to a 4/4 RealTrack. Or at least require a change to the way the 2/4 section is handled by the 4/4 recorded track rather that just a timing signature change.
I may be incorrect after all, only last week I almost made a mistake. I nearly said I was wrong.
Tony If I'm understanding you, I put up a piece a few days ago (search Trunc Funk in the showcase) that used a 4/4 "style" but played a lot of 3/4 bars and a single 2/4 bar in each section. In my case, the 2/4 bar played the first two beats of whatever section of the Real Track it chose (same with the 3/4 bars playing the first 3 beats). If you try this out, you may find it is kind of style dependent as to how well the Real Track handles the odd command. But even when I was using midi-only styles, that was the case. If that's not your answer, never mind.
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Tangmo, that is also my understanding of how this works. It’s also why you must choose a style that has as many beats per measure as you will require even if the first measure uses fewer beats.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Hi, what I was getting at was the comments by Fiddler2007 at the start of this thread about not handling timing changes being a fault. The way I see it one would have to manipulate a track recorded at 4/4 to play 2/4 maybe it chops the bar in half or in the case of 3/4 three quarters but I would not have thought it would sound natural without some extra attention. Some styles might do it but the emphasis on the beats would not necessarily be correct. I guess I don’t explain things too well. For example (and I hope this make sense) a 4/4 count going 1, 2, 3, 4 might work going to 2/4 but a count going 1, 2, 3, 4 would sound wrong. In either case it could sound as if the beat comes back in backwards depending on the tunes needs. The second beat emphasis would almost certainly not be nice in 3/4 timing.
I just don’t see it as a RealTrack fault. To me if it is recorded at 4/4 then that is what it is designed to do. It maybe possible to change the timing but if the change does not sound right is it a fault. (Not by my way of thinking)
Just a thought
Tony
Last edited by Teunis; 10/03/18 01:49 AM.
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Tony, an example of this that’s quite pronounced is Latin music played to a clave. Drives the percussion guys nuts to hear it, but I just played a big band chart arranged by Michael Phillip Mossman that did this intentionally (and they don’t come better than him in the genre).
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Tony, an example of this that’s quite pronounced is Latin music played to a clave. Drives the percussion guys nuts to hear it, but I just played a big band chart arranged by Michael Phillip Mossman that did this intentionally (and they don’t come better than him in the genre). Hi Matt, what I am getting at is if you have a 4/4 RealTrack and you change the time signature for a bar (or several bars) and the RealTrack does not handle it too well is it the fault of the RealTrack. I really don’t think it is. Tony
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I'm not going to tell you it sounds "natural". It depends on what you are going for. Yes, a strong 2 beat in a 4/4 measure cut to 3/4 would sound odd in many styles. But if you chose a Funk style (where the accent is always on 1) or many "country" styles, you can get some pleasing results.
However, I think most styles would handle a 2/4 measure very well...assuming you didn't have a lot of them stacked up.
The question was would Real Tracks handle it. The answer is "yes" at least in many cases. Set your "structure" and audition your styles and/or Real Track soloist and follow your ears.
I have no comment on technical issues. We're asking BIAB to do something that it wasn't really and primarily designed to do. The tracks (thank Goodness) don't appear to be absolutely strictly quantized, so stuff happens when you make it "stop". I hope it's good stuff, and in my limited experience so far, it has been.
Last edited by Tangmo; 10/03/18 02:29 AM.
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Tony, I think you are correct that it works technically, but whether it sounds acceptable is very much dependent on the style. By ‘style’ I mean what the individual RealTracks play musically, not the style you select for each BIAB song. Playing to a strict clave is an example. I also agree with what Tangmo wrote.
Let’s say I went into the studio and recorded a trumpet solo in 4/4. My employer edits that to take out every fourth beat because he or she decided to change the song to 3/4. Will it work? Maybe, but some measures definitely won’t and will require tweaking. Now let’s consider a comping piano or guitar. What are the odds that truncating what they played will sound good? Even lower. I think it’s remarkable that this works at all - musically - in BIAB. Now, if I had gone into the studio knowing that my playing might get chopped up like this, I suppose I could play differently, but it would severely hamper me to play well.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Fiddler, I've just had a play around with RTs 593 and 596 where I started a song in 4/4, changed to a single bar of 2/4 and then back to 4/4. The generations worked fine for me. Am I missing something? I am aware of the misalignment of generation that you mention. In earlier versions of BIAB, I found that when there were changes like the one above (4/4 to 2/4 to 4/4), it was necessary to put a chord on the beat 3 of the 2/4 bar. Even though this chord would not generate and play, it somehow 'kicked' the Realtrack generation into alignment. With BIAB 2018, I have no longer found it necessary to add this non-playing chord to align the RT generations. I interpreted this to mean that PG Music have addressed this behaviour. With this in mind, are you still having problems with the 4/4 to 2/4 and back to 4/4 alignment with BIAB 2018? Regards, Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2024
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