PG Music Home Forums General Discussion Beginners Forum Questions Re. Thinking About Buying Band in a Box

Hi,
This is my first post here - the folks on the Cockos (Reaper) forums suggested I post some questions I have about BIAB.

Reasons for Possibly Buying BIAB
I write my own stuff (rock songs), and find it a bit laborious to do everything in Reaper from scratch, so I was thinking that I could create quick arrangements/tracks in BIAB, and export the results to Reaper for editing.

Even though I am primarily a guitarist, I am really finicky about drums (and to a lesser extent, keyboards), so my thinking is that I will probably export drum tracks from BIAB as MIDI, but I would imagine that most of my usage for BIAB will involve Real Tracks.

QUESTIONS
1. Is my assumption / hope that creating arrangements quickly, then exporting them to Reaper where I will edit them and overdub guitar and vocals, a realistic assumption/hope?

By this, I mean are there any potential problems with that as a workflow?

2. I will probably be giving myself a new computer for Christmas (to be used exclusively for tracking and video production), but until then will be using my laptop, which does not have a lot of space left on the SSD.

So, I plan to run BIAB from a USB (50 MB)

Are there any problems with running BIAB from a USB? Freezing? Latency? Anything like that? Will I be sacrificing any features if I go the USB route?

3. Is BIAB / Real Band capable of automation for volume, panning and effects - it would be nice to be able to do as much as possible in BIAB before exporting to Reaper, just to save time.

4. What Pak would you all recommend for me?

5. What are the potential pitfalls or disadvantages with using BIAB for the purposes I describe above?

Many thanks for any answers.

All the best,

drutgat

Welcome Drutgat!

Huge Reaper fan here, and spend much time on the r/Reaper subreddit (under a different user name). The workflow from BiaB/RB to Reaper is a dream, especially with the enhancements and developments made to the DAW station/section in the PG music programs.

One of the reasons that (IMHO) Reaper and BiaB work so well together is that, unlike with many DAWs, a Reaper track does not have to be pre-desgnated as audio or MIDI, so you can plonk a plethora of mixed MIDI and audio tracks right into reaper via the dropstation, or, IIRC, in RB by simply selecting a section and dragging it, and having it snap right to grid!

One word of caution, at the outset make sure to set the project tempo in Reaper to the same as the Tempo if the track you are exporting from BiaB/RB. Of course, if you forget to do this you can rectify the issue later, but then you have to mess with other settings such as "change playback rate w/o affecting pitch".. etc.

Editing to address your questions in turn:

Q 1. Is my assumption / hope that creating arrangements quickly, then exporting them to Reaper where I will edit them and overdub guitar and vocals, a realistic assumption/hope?"

A Yes.

Q By this, I mean are there any potential problems with that as a workflow?

A No

Q 2. I will probably be giving myself a new computer for Christmas (to be used exclusively for tracking and video production), but until then will be using my laptop, which does not have a lot of space left on the SSD.

So, I plan to run BIAB from a USB (50 MB)

Are there any problems with running BIAB from a USB? Freezing? Latency? Anything like that? Will I be sacrificing any features if I go the USB route?

A The version I purchased came with an external drive, IIRC maybe it costs an extra $10 to ship. No latency issues at all--just be aware that it won't work through a multi-USB hub, and needs to be plugged in directly to your laptop.

Q Is BIAB / Real Band capable of automation for volume, panning and effects - it would be nice to be able to do as much as possible in BIAB before exporting to Reaper, just to save time.

A. Absolutely. You have volume automation lanes in RB, although personally I leave them untouched because I do all that stuff once I'm in Reaper.

Q 4. What Pak would you all recommend for me?

Well that really depends on what you feel your needs are, and how much $ you're willing/able to spend. The most basic version though should suffice for what you describe...

Q 5. What are the potential pitfalls or disadvantages with using BIAB for the purposes I describe above?

A None. It's the best way to do it, IMO


If you have any more specific questions feel free to ask!

DeaconBlues09,
Many thanks for such a warm welcome to the PG Music forums.

And thanks for your wonderfully clear and helpful answers to my questions.

I have grown to love Reaper, even though I have not done as much recording on it as I had on GarageBand (I am basically a PC person, but bought a now-outdated super-duper Mac about 11 years ago for exclusive audio and video recording because PC's at that point were plagued by all kinds of IRQ problems, and the like).

I do miss the drums in GarageBand, and was getting a little weary of programming using MD Drummer in Reaper, so I am hoping BIAB will shorten the process of getting a good basic drum track into Reaper, which I can then edit to my heart's content.

I watched some BIAB installation videos earlier and I think that the hard drive option meant that you had to install more files on the computer than if one uses the USB option. However, I will double-check that.

I want to make sure that whatever Pak I get has enough Real Tracks on it because I think that the only MIDI I am likely use on BIAB is for export to Reaper. And I do get sick of the same old sounds so I want a good variety of Real Tracks.

Money is less of an issue - basically, I want to set myself up fairly well, and then dive back into recording.

Does that help in narrowing the field a little so that you can suggest an appropriate Pak?

As I said earlier, I am mostly doing rock (and some pop), but I also would like to be able to use tabla if BIAB has any North Indian Classical instruments.

Many thanks for your offer of asking you questions. I am sure that I will be in touch again.

All the best,

drutgat

Sorry, I meant to say above,
"I want to make sure that whatever Pak I get has enough Real Tracks on it because I think that the drum part is the only MIDI I am likely to use use on BIAB is for export to Reaper".

Apparently my account has to be approved in order for me to edit my posted messages, and that has not happened yet, hence this message.

Gotcha,

Look, I'd wait for the new version to come out (2019-should come out end of October beginning December) and it's always on sale at least until the end of the year. Definitely get it on PC, for like a million reasons I won't bother to get into now.

AS for styles, I can't even tell you what's possible with this program if I intend to get any work at all done today, so I say go all in (except personally I would not bother to go for the audiophile--especially if HD space is an issue).

Forget the individual PAKs, just buy the whole kit and kaboodle... You have no idea how satisfying it can be to here a bouzouki playing exquisitely along with a fretless bass and chamber string section!!!

However, w/ I'm afraid you're a little out of luck with the North Indian instruments. While there are some decent loops in that style, that's not what BiaB excels in. BUT, you can generate fantastic MIDI melodies by constricting your chords and chord progressions using the scale tones that type of music emulates, and then use Kontakt instruments to to its magic with the MIDI.

FWIW, I've purchased, and almost exclusively used, BiaB as a woodshedding/educational tool (the reason I used Reaper in the first place was for recording guitar and bass for online collabs) but recently posted my first track for a contest which was some BiaB instruments sliced and diced and plied with effects in Reaper. https://soundcloud.com/user-423212678/labor-day-pt-ii-1

Basically everything there is Real Tracks (including the vocals!) a sh*t ton of Native Instruments plugins, and a lot of editing in Reaper :-)

Welcome again, and we look forward to seeing more of you here :-)

The Audiophile version comes on its own USB HDD, so drive space is not going to be an issue. If you are really keen, you can always upgrade to the Audiophile edition later.

Do go for the best (highest) version that your budget allows. You can find the limitations with the entry level version (Pro-Pak) fairly quickly.

My recommendation is to wait until December if possible. New versions are often released just in time for Christmas, and (historically) pricing tends to be better at that time, meaning you can usually buy more BiaB for your buck.

Welcome to the neighborhood.

drutgat,

Here is a "critical" welcome.

You will get a great great sounding realtracks and very detailed way of editing your composition with BIAB.

But keep in mind:

1)Program might look good on the screen, but it is very clunky. You will feel as it was written ages ago. Developing team/owner does not communicate with customers well, so future is very unclear.

2)It is 32 bit, and not 64 bit. And might never be re-written

3) User interface is not "user friendly", not dynamic or dockable.

4)Poor VST support especially entering chords with MIDI controller.

5)slow track re-generation process, even on very fast computers.


Having said that, it does allow to make great sounding backing tracks.
As VideoTrack mentioned, it is better to wait till December.

I might add this: Look into their "grace" period. I believe they do have 30 day money back guarantee, maybe just get the most basic version that can be downloaded and play with it for a few days. If it is for you, just ask them kindly to honor guarantee within their timeframe and then just get the best version you can afford when / if new release is announced.

Overall, I feel it worth the money if you know what you are getting, but progress of modernizing the software is very slow. So if you have patience and are willing to accept that development might stop for what is called "technical death", process, where it is too expensive to rewrite software to new standards, go for it

Adding to Videotrack's message the Ultrapak also comes on a HD.

You will find that the MIDI drum tracks in BiaB are very good. Sometimes I will use them as is while other times I may either rewrite a small section and/or use Groovemonkee MIDI loops.

https://groovemonkee.com/

As previously stated there is nothing wrong with the way you want to use BiaB. I drag and drop MIDI and RT tracks into my DAW, Studio One Pro, with no problems. In fact I use the exact same method as you are proposing to use.

Good luck.

Welcome to the forum (I hesitate to “welcome” someone, as I've only been her 8 years or so.)


The one “critical” review notwithstanding, everything the company sells has a 30 day guarantee, so you have that advantage.


As for the program, I really don't know quite how to describe it. For me it has become a writing partner, the scope of which is only restrained by my imagination.


I've written Rock, Classical, Hip Hop, Blues, Novelty, Big Band, Dixieland, Ballads, Folk-Rock, Country, Religious, Historical, Sea Shanties, Tangos, Adult Contemporary, and several others that I fail to remember. That's not to brag, because some of them were really stinkers!

The point is – the music is right there in this “clunky”, imperfect, slow to change program. A five-piece band at your fingertips, playing virtually anything you can imagine.


Try the full program. You won't regret it.


Regards,


Bob

Previously, PG Music offered a demo version to help with buying decisions. That option has been discontinued in favor of their very liberal 30-day, no-questions-asked, 100% guarantee. They invite you to try the software for 30 days with absolute confidence. Just one of the things that sets PG Music head and shoulders above whomever is in second place in customer satisfaction.

I find the very music savvy friends I've made on these forums well worth the price of admission.

You will never be flamed for asking a question. Trolls don't stick around very long.

Soon you'll be sharing your learning with the rest of us.

Welcome again.

BTW, the tutorials have been updated and they are fabulous.

http://www.pgmusic.com/howtos.htm

You will also find hundreds of users' tutorials on YouTube.

"The one “critical” review notwithstanding..."
What is that supposed to mean, Bob?

Of course it does! And to those who are jumping on me like hungry wolves on young goat, kindly hold your urges. Lets keep it civilized. If you read my post, I actually encouraged a probable customer to try it. I clearly stated that it worth the money if you know what you getting into.

One has to make a decision, so I gave my honest opinion.

drutgat,

From what you say (in posts above)... I would recommend that you go for the UltraPAK.

Once you start using BIAB, you WILL want ALL the RealTracks. AND all the RealDrums.

The drumming available in the full complement of RealDrums is INCREDIBLE. And fairly flexible. And REAL. The variety of styles is extensive.

The full version also a LOT more electric guitar styles and soloists.

And... you will be surprised at the rest of the RealTracks that will help flesh out rock productions (pianos, organs, sax, harp...)

fj

Drutgat, you have some good answers above.

One thing that's been hinted at but I don't think stated, is that whatever package you buy, the main program is the same. What you pay for is more RealTracks, RealDrums, styles, MIDI supertracks etc.

Also, you wrote this question as your #3: Is BIAB / Real Band capable of automation for volume, panning and effects ... I will just comment that BIAB does allow you to set the volume, panning, reverb and tone for a song. However, it does not support automation curves for these. For example, if you had a Mackie Control Surface or similar, you could ride the gain on a setting but it won't be recorded by BIAB. It's better to send the tracks to Reaper or any DAW and do it there.

BIAB even has a setting to make all tracks dry and centered before exporting to a DAW, so you can do all the effects in the DAW on a 'clean' track, I think that's the workflow you will be using. As also mentioned, RealBand, bundled with BIAB for free, is a simple DAW that can be an intermediate step. It reads BIAB files directly, something no other DAW does. And it allows regenerating parts of a track, rather then the whole track in BIAB.

I've been using BIAB since 2006 and I wouldn't be without it.

It's a brilliant program and indispensable for my songwriting. Like those in the posts above, I recommend spending the most that you can to get the best version possible. All versions use the same engine. What varies from version to version is the number of styles, Realtracks, Realdrums, MIDI and Supermidi tracks.

Also, if you are tossing up between the Windows version of the program and the Mac version, be aware that the Windows version comes with Realband while the Mac version does not. Realband is somewhat like a DAW but it has the capabilities of BIAB.

My workflow is...

1. Write a song in BIAB.

2. Open the song in Realband and use multiriff to generate multiple tracks for some of my song's backing tracks.

3. Save tracks and load them into Reaper to create the backing.

For those tracks that I have created multiple tracks (usually solo tracks or tracks for sweetening the mix), I compile a single track from the multiple tracks using copy and paste.

Reaper is also where I use VSTs, DXis and other effects. I don't worry about setting these up in either BIAB or Realband since I use these programs to produce the raw tracks (midi and audio) for Reaper.

If you want to get an idea as to what's possible, visit Users Showcase at the below link and have a listen to some BIAB users' works.

Users Showcase

Regards,
Noel

• my latest song: Summer Moon

Something needs to be said about the quality of many users on these forums and again about the software's acceptance in the curriculum of the top music schools in the country and worldwide. You would be pleasantly surprised to learn those schools names.

Some of the modest posters on these forums could swap music theory at 100 paces but they never boast their credentials or accomplishments. They are generally the first ones to throw out a lifeline to help us.

I can name many Nashville recording artists and songwriters who are using BIAB and the list is growing daily.

DeaconBlues09, VideoTrack, Rustyspoon#, MarioD, 90 db (Bob), Donny, floyd jane, Matt Finley, Noel96,

Wow. What can I say?

This has to be the warmest, most welcoming and helpful response I have ever received on a forum.

Thank you so much.

I can see that I am not going to be short of people to interact with about BIAB, and I would like to get into some collaborations down the road a little.

I had already listened to some user tracks when I posted the above, and while I really liked what I heard and was impressed by the creativity of the songs I listened to, one of the things that worried me a little was that there was a certain sonic genericism to the BIAB tracks themselves.

Maybe this is just me.

But I am going to listen to DeaconBlues09's track, and will also check out the GrooveMonkey loops suggested by MarioD.

Thanks for those links, guys.

You all gave such sage advice, and, accordingly
1. I will wait for the new release (are they typically pretty bug free?)

2. I will spend as much as I can

3. I am definitely going PC (not Mac) this time

Thanks again.

drutgat

Thanks for this, Donny.

I am definitely going to invest in BIAB - in fact, I now have a bit of GAS about it: damn you all!

It does not surprise me that professional songwriters and recording artists use BIAB - for the same reasons all of you use it, probably, and the same reasons I am attracted to it.

Take care,

drutgat

New releases will have new features. It is not uncommon for there to be some teething problems, but do note that there is a dedicated extensive testing team and PG Music often release one or more patches after a new release when there are any items that need attention.

I don't think that you will be disappointed.

Thanks VideoTrack.

Drutgat, you're right, almost everyone here is helpful and supportive. But if it makes you feel more at home to be like some other forums, I can actually tell you to go RTFM. You can download the complete BIAB manual as a PDF and get a head start! Go here:

http://www.pgmusic.com/manuals/index.htm