David, I had to chuckle when I read your OCD 3 backups comment. I have three backups also, two here and one in my bank safe deposit box. I must have OCD also
The fitness trainer asked me, "What kind of a squat are you accustomed to doing?" I said, "Diddly."
64 bit Win 11 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
Since this is in the 'Songwriting' thread, I assume that you are talking about songwriting and not production.
In my opinion, songwriting takes both disciplined practice as well as playful wandering. The most important thing is having some means to track your writing; a place to jot down lyric ideas, to hum a melody, to take a note to 'copy the chord progression from song xyz'. This needs to be on you all the time.
The disciplined practice means often and regular. This often means not finishing something. Sometimes it means practicing a songwriting method. For example, have you ever tried writing a song with a refrain line? No? Go try that - now!
Have you ever tried using the minor 4th chord in a song? No? The Beatles did it often; go try that.
Have you gone the 'wrong' way around the circle of 5ths?
These are exercises not unlike practicing drum rudiments, or finger exercises on piano. Practice using them, and they will eventually make their way into your songwriting.
You don't just sit down and decide you will learn Für Elise on piano in a single, unbroken session - or never play anything else until you've learned it fully.
Why would you expect to do the same with songwriting?
Take advantage of every learning resource and resolve to attempt to put to use something that you've learned. Pat Pattison's songwriting course from Berklee is a great free resource primarily for lyric development.
I've been through it twice with an on-line cohort. I have forgotten most of what I learned, but I do remember two things that have made their way into nearly every song I've written since (35 songs since):
1. The Boxes (story development) 2. Bridges or pre-choruses with odd number of phrases are almost always more interesting than those with an even number of phrases.
He gives plenty of examples of these two ideas. I HAD to put them into practice for assignments for the classes. Now they almost come naturally.
I saved the videos from the classes. I should probably review them for new stuff to make 'normal' for me.
The OP goes on to explain that he feels quality is more human voices and human players in his song arrangement rather using RTs or playing it all himself. Instead of taking the time that requires to drive to connect with others in his locality, he prefers to write more songs for variety - meaning he has time to write more short songs.
Knowing what he's saying now, I would suggest connecting with more people online for input/collaboration and learning more creative use of the RTs cut and paste abilities or midi etc. On the other hand, there's nothing wrong with short songs. I think it's possible to have both variety (lots of finished short songs) and quality (as many fully arranged as he wants).
This could've gone in either the production or songwriting forum since it's essentially about fleshing out the arrangement he'd like to have versus the good but short songs he enjoys writing more than finishing arrangments.:)
For a moment I thought that I am speaking some forgotten dead language that no one understands anymore You placed toys neatly in one basket. Thank you for encouragement!
If you've got access to musician friends (or deep pockets) why not bring them into a project for a specific thing you're looking for? Besides being more "social", it can be good for the song to get what it's in your head recorded.
Internet collaborations are a bit of a different animal. I've done quite a few of them (having neither close musician friends nor deep pockets). If you think it will give you more creative control, best to think again. It's harder to communicate a musical idea with words than to get your point across in a forum post. What will happen instead is that your partner will bring something unexpected to the piece. Humility must kick in, and with luck their ideas far outshine yours. Nine times out of ten that's been the case with me and mine.
I'll give an example. It's (I think) the only collaboration Blue Attitude Dave did with me back in the day. Working under a dead-line, I wrote a pretty weak verse and a strong chorus of what was going to be a "Oh? You're going to break up with me? I'll double down on that, woman" song in 3/4.
I asked for help with the lyric as I was in bad health at the time. My co-writer turned it into more of a ghost story. Truth be told, I sang the song and still don't know what it's about. I'm not 100% convinced even he does.
I envisioned an acoustic guitar backing with a slide guitar flavoring. Sent a very rough sketch of the idea to Dave to do the acoustic. He did a great job--precisely what I was asking and looking for. Simple and elegant. Sent that to Jay in Texas for the slide spice. Extra fine. Then all that went to England to a producer-type who I thought might add some sweetening and do a proper mix. He didn't know how to do 3/4 and the first version sent back to me placed my vocals a complete beat off--maybe even two beats. We finally got that worked out.
When the song was finished, my simple acoustic "I'm done here" song had turned into a more synth heavy something else entirely. BUT (while I was sorry Dave got so buried in the mix), I LIKED IT. Actually, I think Dave liked it too, if I recall right. Or maybe he was just being all Canadian and stuff.
Anyway...try to work with artists, not artistes. Usually just one per song is preferable, unless you're very specific. Everybody is going to hear the end result differently. Be prepared to go with where the song is heading. But don't let it get ruined by having your vocals come in on the wrong beat.
Tangmo! This is great write. I truly enjoyed it. Thank you for sharing insight story!
My access to musician friends is limited as most of them are in cities and I am on a mountain with big bears (not a joke). I have a couple of people in my area that I can speak about music freely, but they are distant from the type of music I like to flirt with.
I have met some people in my ventures that can be on my "frequency", not pulling things to their side, like a child, screaming: ME,ME,ME.., but working as ONE. Some of them are far away now, some of them gained 60 pounds and TV is their best friend, some are no longer among us. Nevertheless, I consider myself lucky that I met such people and know they exist/existed.
Chances are, I might never find such person (or people) again, but on the other hand I might. Not trying to sugar things up, but this forum had been an inspiration for me. A few folks helped me greatly with technical aspects, some with creative and one member even volunteered to help me proof read my text and done great job of not "breaking bones" but very gently polishing lyrics. I will not abuse his kind gesture, but if I feel that a tune's lyric is special, I will likely to approach him again.
I am tempted to at least try "online" music collaboration, to see where the "wind in blowing". But before I do that, I guess I have to write something that is sort of universal, so it would not too confusing for the partner on the other end of the wire.
I remember recording that guitar part for you but don't remember the song, too many years ago! I do however own the CD that it ended up on, I'll need to pull it out and give it a spin soon
Misha,
I prefer going forward with new songs, that is the fun part for me. But sometimes I will revisit older songs and tweak the mix.
One of the disadvantages I have found with doing everything from writing, performing, producing and then mixing and mastering the song yourself is you tend to get too close to the project, can't see the forest for the trees sort of thing. And then when you listen back a few weeks after the fact you might hear things that you missed the first time around.
I keep a WIP folder: "works in process". Some of them are really good ideas, but I don't have the skill, talent, resources, etc. to 'realize' them (make the idea 'real'), so some are destined to stay in that folder. Some of the things in that folder are partial really good ideas, but not enough to create a whole (like a song with a great hook, but nothing else; or a song that needs a lyric, but I could never put a correct one together). Sometimes I go back and resurrect older work, after gaining new knowledge and tools...I have a couple that I'm working on right now...they are very good concepts, but have been waiting for RT's or other tools to get them from 'the idea in my mind' to 'that sounds pretty good!'.
I agree that it is easy to sketch...there are so many wonderful combinations of music/words/ideas that one could spin up. My philosophy is that I need to just focus on a few, apply myself to making them into creations that I really like, and accept the fact that not all the 'great ideas' will emerge as finished works--just some of them!
Windows 11, Intel Core i5-8600T 2.3Ghz, 16 gig ram, BIAB 2025 MegaPak, SampleTank 4, Keystation49 Kybd, Neewer NW-800 mic
Just as I thought the post has exhausted its potential, got 2 nice posts. Thanks Dave, Tano!
Dave, I can relate to your last paragraph 100%. It is a curse and a blessing. A blessing in a way that you do not have to rely on somebody to fix things and sometimes "repairs" come with ease (sometimes not) I usually try to change things within a month of initial recording, before lichen starts grow over these tunes.
I misspoke when i said "sketches"... My sketches are more like raw demos. With structure, lyrics everything is there, but not ready for "prime time" one way or another. I have recorded over 100 of these demos. To be realistic, I am hoping to re-mix, re-record or change lyrics on about 20-30 of these when I have more time on my plate. For now, I feel that I still have potential of writing new things, so probably that is what I should do. At least my guts are telling me to do just that
Tano, Thank you for the input! It gave me an idea. I will start going through my stuff, pulling things that I want to re-do and finding their project folders. Thankfully I kept most of Cakewalk files from 20+ years back till recent. Probably now it is a good idea, to gather them from old dusty hard drives into something sexy, such as USB3 flash drive. And you are absolutely right about: "new knowledge and tools" that is my hope as well. That when I finally get to them I will know more and things will have a much better workflow.
XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs Special Extended Until August 31st!
XPro & Xtra Styles PAKs Special Extended Until August 31st!
The XPro Styles PAKs and Xtra Styles PAKs special offers are now available until August 31st at 11:59pm PDT!
Ready to take your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 experience to the next level? Now’s the perfect time! Expand your style library with XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs—packed with a wide variety of genres to inspire your next musical creation.
What are XPro Styles and Xtra Styles PAKs?
XPro Styles PAKs are styles that work with any version (Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition) of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). XPro Styles PAKS 1-9 includes 900 styles!
Xtra Styles PAKs are styles that work with the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). With over 3,500 styles (and 35 MIDI styles) included in Xtra Styles PAKs 1-20, the possibilities are endless!
Get the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Listen to demos and order now! For Windows or for Mac.
Note: XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Get Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 19 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Listen to demos and order now! For Windows or for Mac.
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 19 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
Don’t miss this chance to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box setup—at a great price!
Mac 2025 Special Upgrade Offers Extended Until August 15th!
It's not too late to upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® and save! We've extended our special until August 15, 2025!
We've added many major new features to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®, including advanced AI tools like the amazing BB Stem Splitter and AI Lyrics Generator, as well as VST3 plugin support, and Equalize Temp. Plus, there’s a new one-stop MIDI Patches Picker with over 1,100 MIDI patches to choose from, all neatly categorized by GM numbers. The MultiPicker Library is enhanced with tabs for the SongPicker, MIDI Patch Picker, Chord Builder, AI Lyrics Generator, and Song Titles Browser, and the tabs are organized into logical groups. The Audiophile Edition is enhanced with FLAC files , which are 60% smaller than AIFF files while maintaining identical audio quality, and now ships on a fast 1TB SSD, and much more!
Check out all the new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® here:
Purchase your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac during our special to save up to 50% off your upgrade purchase and receive a FREE BONUS PAK of amazing new Add-ons. These include the 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK, Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana, Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes, MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano, Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7, Playable RealTracks Set 4, RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark, and more!
Upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and add 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and 20 RealStyles, FLAC Files for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks, Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster, MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster, Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8, and RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe.
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs!
We’ve expanded the Band-in-a-Box® RealTracks library with 202 incredible new RealTracks (in sets 449-467) across Jazz, Blues, Funk, World, Pop, Rock, Country, Americana, and Praise & Worship—featuring your most requested styles!
Jazz, Blues & World (Sets 449–455):
These RealTracks includes “Soul Jazz” with Neil Swainson (bass), Mike Clark (drums), Charles Treadway (organ), Miles Black (piano), and Brent Mason (guitar). Enjoy “Requested ’60s” jazz, classic acoustic blues with Colin Linden, and more of our popular 2-handed piano soloing. Plus, a RealTracks first—Tango with bandoneon, recorded in Argentina!
Rock & Pop (Sets 456–461):
This collection includes Disco, slap bass ‘70s/‘80s pop, modern and ‘80s metal with Andy Wood, and a unique “Songwriter Potpourri” featuring Chinese folk instruments, piano, banjo, and more. You’ll also find a muted electric guitar style (a RealTracks first!) and “Producer Layered Guitar” styles for slick "produced" sound.
Country, Americana & Praise (Sets 462–467):
We’ve added new RealTracks across bro country, Americana, praise & worship, vintage country, and songwriter piano. Highlights include Brent Mason (electric guitar), Eddie Bayers (drums), Doug Jernigan (pedal steel), John Jarvis (piano), Glen Duncan (banjo, mandolin & fiddle), Mike Harrison (electric bass) and more—offering everything from modern sounds to heartfelt Americana styles
And, if you are looking for more, the 2025 49-PAK (for $49) includes an additional 20 RealTracks with exciting new sounds and genre-spanning styles. Enjoy RealTracks firsts like Chinese instruments (guzheng & dizi), the bandoneon in an authentic Argentine tango trio, and the classic “tic-tac” baritone guitar for vintage country.
You’ll also get slick ’80s metal guitar from Andy Wood, modern metal with guitarist Nico Santora, bass player Nick Schendzielos, and drummer Aaron Stechauner, more praise & worship, indie-folk, modern/bro country with Brent Mason, and “Songwriter Americana” with Johnny Hiland.
Plus, enjoy user-requested styles like Soul Jazz RealDrums, fast Celtic Strathspey guitar, and Chill Hop piano & drums!
With your version 2025 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons FREE! Or upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
The 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 33 new RealTracks and 65+ new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 29 new RealTracks and 45+ new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 20 new RealStyles.
Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana
Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes
MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano
Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7
Playable RealTracks Set 4
RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark
SynthMaster Sounds and Styles (with audio demos)
128 GM MIDI Patch Audio Demos.
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyles,
FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster,
Instrumental Studies Set 23: More '80s Hard Rock Soloing,
MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster
Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8
RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Mac!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Mac!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
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