I'm glad you have had no trouble with RB. I wish I could say the same. As for you being frustrated with me and others asking questions and pointing things out, I don't know what to tell you. If you said that I'm ignorant, I would agree, even though I am trying improve. But the other people who have had problems sound like they know what they are doing.
As far as replicating the problems, I wasn't doing anything unusual. I clicked on the command, followed the prompts and had trouble.
As far as finishing the VST thread, a few days ago I posted that I finally got something to work and that I was ecstatic. Made offers to hug Jim Fogle and Pipeline.
A thread you may have missed suggested that ST3 might not work as a midi sound engine. At least that's the way I understood it. That's why I didn't go back to it.
Re the time stretch, I said it told me it would overlap but it didn't. It left a gap. And again, it always crashes my computer.
Re the Initialize Accompaniment Function, is it supposed to do this when you hit the Edit command? And is it supposed to do it more than once per session? It does for me.
This thread is here for a reason. I noticed that we have a frequent contributor who uses Mixcraft. I sent him a PM to ask about his experience. He suggested I post the questions in the Off-Topic forum.
Finally, I think PG music created a great thing when they made BB. I appreciate their efforts with RB and the help they have given me. But I can not get it to work consistently for me, even when I read the instructions and follow the prompts. At this point, I hope we can agree to disagree and move on.
@jazzmammal you put users off coming to the forum controlling what they can do, where they can do it. I've seen users come here, you come down on them and they never return. I and other users go out of our way to help anyone no matter how stupid the question may sound or what section it is in. You don't want to put them off from ever coming back. It's all you seem to do these days, maybe you just do it for all the attention, that's what trolls do..... Just feel it from the other person's perspective, don't wait till you leave this world to hit Rewind then Play and watch and experience it all back in HD Surround, experiencing it from the other's perspective as well. This may go over your head now what I say but during the Playback process it won't, you'll get it then. I just have a feeling it's the drink doing it.
Guys, I deleted my prior post. No sense in us all going there. Sometimes Bob, you are spot on with insight and your ability to articulate the complexities of working with electronic music.... and sometimes, well, not so much.
If RB really doesn't CRASH (your word, in CAPS), it would have caught and recovered from that exception that Pipeline posted. Yet there it is... graphic evidence that RB is capable of crashing.
Now, was it caused by a bug in the code?
By your definition, no. Because (unlike us) you've apparently got access to the RB design document.
Without having done root cause analysis, you made some mighty strong claims about RB having "NO" problems with VSTis. This was based on the fact that lots of people used it without problem. But most especially, it worked for you, because you had a "stock" computer (whatever that is) and the "right" drivers (whatever those are).
It reminds me a bit of the guy who argued that Microsoft wouldn't release an update with bugs, and if people encountered problems, it was because the users had messed up, not Microsoft.
Originally Posted By: jazzmammal
It ain't happening guys there is no problem with these updates unless you've completely messed with your system on your own.
After a lot of thought I am, albeit reluctantly, making a contribution to this (off-track) thread.
I have no intention of being antagonistic or to challenge anyone's point of view. Everyone is perfectly entitled to share their own opinions.
I am a software programmer and analyst in real-time computer systems with more years experience than I care to remember. Suffice to say, I know a little about software.
A long time ago we were working with another company, developing interfaces to their software. As long as our software performed to their spec's, there was no issue. During our stress testing we quickly determined that if our software made any illegal request, their software crashed. We got them to change their software to recognize that illegal requests were part of real world events. They then handled these correctly. This made their software more robust.
Because one particular VST doesn't cause a program to crash for a user doesn't dictate that the other program is invincible or even slightly robust. A properly managed and structured program needs to correctly handle awry requests, unintelligible interfaces, badly handled message structures, and much more (like an object being placed on the keyboard - yes, it happens).
Programming to handle every possible exception is hard. Harder that just writing the original code. YMMV but mine doesn't. These are just simple facts. No program should crash, even if it is not its fault. If it does, it means it doesn't handle unexpected situations properly, and improvements are required.
Unfortunately I haven't experienced that perfect world yet. I fully believe that programs mentioned here have crashed for some users - not their own fault maybe, outside influence perhaps, but they crash and if they were more robust, they wouldn't.
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
Since the thread is convoluted, I don't mind making it more so.
OP:
I second all positive comments on Real Band. There are some occasional annoyances in Real Band (small ones) that you will have to get used to until they fix them I guess, but overall it is the most user friendly DAW I have seen and a great place to record audio.
However, if it has gone wonky, there are some files you will have to delete, such as one .ini file and one .cfg file and then restart it so that it can properly configure itself. You would need to call Kent at tech support, tell him what is going on and make sure you are configured properly and also know how to delete certain files in the future to get a fresh config. Ask Kent about that and take notes. Also have a notepad handy to ask any other things you are confused about. After letting Kent help me get set up properly and explain a few things I never had another problem. That was 4 years ago.
Real Band is still my main RECORDING DAW although I mix in Sonar 2018 (Bandlab) and am expert user of Sonar. I find Sonar is very easy, but it does take patience at first to get the gist of it. It takes work, and you have to to read the manual as they say. But once you do "get it"--it is very, very easy.
Reaper is also cool. I have that as well. But in my opinion (and everyone has his or her own tastes) it is less intuitive than Sonar and for me the learning curve on Reaper is actually steeper than Sonar.
On Sonar, if you want an effect on a track you hit the plus sign for insert/add effect. Then you choose from your VST list.
If you want a new stereo bus for instruments or vocals, you click insert new bus. If you want a new synth, go to top menu and select insert soft synth. It just does it. No need to configure anymore. Just play.
If you want to send a track to an effect on a bus (like send the instrument bed or instrument bus to Waves Vocal Rider for analysis as a "sidechain") you right click on the instrument track and hit "insert send" and choose vocal rider from the drop down menu.
Piece of cake.
(Creating "buses" and sends for groups of instruments, especially to create a separate bus/bed for instruments and vocals, and creating "sidechains" are two of the most common areas of knowledge needed for mixing. In the case I described for vocal rider, the sidechain send I described allows vocal rider to analyze the volume of the instruments coming through the instrument bus so it can adjust the volume of the vocals and create an automatic fader, hence "vocal rider" during mixdown. All of these elementary but necessary skills in understanding and applying terms and techniques within a DAW require a phenomenal amount of time reading manuals or talking to people who use these DAWS and who can show you how. Or you can take a class.)
As others have said, it takes a while to learn what all of these terms mean and you have to master their definitions, study what you can, ask questions when you can't figure it out.
BUT, it takes an enormous amount of time to figure it all out, even for the most computer literate so don't get frustrated.
You simply have to make a decision on what you are going to learn and prepare for a long haul and dig in.
For me, again, what I did was:
1.) Make sure I had Real Band properly set up. (Kent had to help me.)
2.) Mastered Real Band.
3.) Began to study and master Sonar after I had mastered Real Band.
It took years.
That was my path. There are many others.
All of them take countless hours of study.
David Snyder Songwriter/Renaissance Man Studio + Fingers
2bsolo Your experience is same as mine. I worked with RB for a longtime and I still do, but for me it is get in and get out as soon as possible. Reaper on the other hand is a joy to work in. Primarily given that on my system it is and has been for years Rock-Solid.
Same experience here. I've tried RB many times, but it's so unstable in my system that I can't barely use it.
Mixcraft has a fairly tight integration with video, and a pretty cool notation editor. But the only way for you to decide is to try them both. One will feel more natural. Pick that one. Marry it. Learn it.
I can't believe how some just don't get what I'm trying to say. Here it is again and it's to you Pipeline.
You keep posting error boxes and crashes yet you never explain exactly what you did to cause that to happen. With all your experience and knowledge and I do admire you for that, haven't you ever been a beta tester for anybody? Don't you know the protocols for reporting stuff like that?
To the comment about me saying people who like to mess with or "customize" their systems with registry hacks and the like also tend to be the ones who have the most problems. That came up in a thread some months ago and Deryk I think it was confirmed that in the thread. As staff, he's trying to be diplomatic but he said basically the same thing. They have to try and diagnose a problem when they're not dealing with a stock Windows system.
2bsolo, why not start a thread in the RB forum about the time stretch? You're thinking RB is messed up, I'm thinking you simply missed a step.
For now, I'll just focus on your issues with Sampletank and you thinking because a few people, again a few not dozens, have said they can't get it to work either which makes you think there must be some problems with using it with PG products.
Yes, it's tricky but that's just digital audio so here's some basic info for you and maybe you already know this or not, I don't know. Start with your OS. Everybody who's using Win 10 is running a 64 bit system. Thousands of programs are 32 bit including Biab/RB. That's no problem, 32 bit programs will run fine on a 64 bit OS. However, speaking specifically of audio DAW's now, a 32 bit host like Biab/RB will not natively run a 64 bit plugin like ST3. ST2 was 32 bit but ST3 is 64 bit only so you need Jbridge to run it.
That's point one where some run into problems. Simply understanding all the nuances of a 64 bit OS running a 32 bit DAW host using a 64 bit plugin can just go over the heads of some people and they never get it. This goes to my oft repeated comment about needing to be a computer nerd to work with digital audio.
Point two is IKM's authorization system. That alone can cause some folks lots of grief. That and how ST installs, that's tricky by itself and has nothing to do with the host such as Biab/RB.
Point three is the confusion between a DXi and a VST. ST will install both but you need to use the VST version, not the DXi version. And that's another thing, you need to know the difference between a DXi and a VST.
Point four is following Biab/RB Help files to first select a VST correctly and second to set it up as your default synth. Just writing these points out is confusing even me, I'm trying to make sure I've got this right.
This is called welcome to digital audio but just because it's confusing and it's sooo easy to misunderstand something and miss a step still doesn't mean there's something wrong with PG's software. Using VST's including ST works fine, there is no inherent problem with it.
Why do you keep denying us the details of your crashes so we can see for ourselves? I keep asking and you keep avoiding the question. All you do is post jokes. I think that's called deflection.
Am I a satisfied customer? Yes within the parameters of RB doing what the documentation says it can do. Is that enough for you, obviously not and that's totally cool btw. I have no problem with that, all I'm saying is RB works as advertised and PG advertises that it works well with VST's for example which it does.
I have a problem when you're saying to a nooby, forget RB it's crap. Name another DAW that can work with all the thousands of RT/RD's and generate multiple comp tracks of various instruments in the same song. Name me a DAW that has a chord grid that allows you to generate multiple RT's at a time by the bar, by the phrase, by a whole song, AND THEN if that's not enough you can load styles and do it all again! Then change the chord grid and generate more new tracks in the same song just to hear what some chord subs sound like. At each generation you can change the RT's so you can have up to 48 tracks of completely different RT's. Who does that? NOBODY.
And don't talk about Rapid Composer or the new Studio One Chord Track. Those are useful but they are not even on the same planet as what RB can do with Real Tracks. Handling styles and RT/RD's has absolutely nothing to do with traditional DAW functions, all of that is unique to RB yet RB has pretty decent DAW functions including midi and working with VST's in addition to all that. If you're looking at it as a DAW only then sure there are gazillions of other DAW's out there but none can do what RB does.
Am I a satisfied customer? Yes within the parameters of RB doing what the documentation says it can do. Is that enough for you, obviously not and that's totally cool btw. I have no problem with that, all I'm saying is RB works as advertised and PG advertises that it works well with VST's for example which it does.
Bob
I agree and that also is true with BiaB. Use them as intended and you will be fine.
If one is into RTs, audio recording, but using very little MIDI then RB is the way to go. But if you are heavily into MIDI as I am then there are better alternatives out there. However after saying that I always have said that if you do not have a DAW then learn with RB. YMMV
Life is short so make sure you spend as much time as possible on the Internet arguing with strangers.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
I am in the process of deciding what DAW I will change to. I like RB, but there are some things that happen repeatedly and they are annoying. Plus, I have found a few things that other DAWs have that RB doesn't.....
Originally Posted By: jazzmammal
I have a problem when you're saying to a nooby, forget RB it's crap...
If you can name one user that has used RB more than me, put more into making RB better, promoted RB more than anyone else, then I will leave the forum now never to return. Please give me a little respect, you have no idea what goes on behind the scenes but maybe some day soon you will learn.
Originally Posted By: jazzmammal
And don't talk about Rapid Composer or the new Studio One Chord Track. Those are useful but they are not even on the same planet as what RB can do with Real Tracks.
If BB/RB can do what RapidComposer can do I will get rid of it.
EDIT: RB is like WinXP it crashes and gets blue screen, can you conceive of a Win7 Win10 RB 64bit that don't crash and don't get blue screen ??? can we aim for that or force ourseleves to stick with XP and run the newer OSs down ?? (all the years and audio apps I have used the only app ever to give Win7 a blue screen "ever" is BB & RB)
All this pushing is bringing out the true reason why you are doing this, what was hidden under the surface. It seems like you want RB to stay just as it is with no improvements unless authorized by you. How do you stop this ? Attack them, drive them away never to return, you don't want to hear constructive criticism and honesty !!! Denialville all over again. It can be very fearful change.
Have you written an article on what the Mac users should do without RB 64bit ? what DAW should they use or are they allowed to even use a DAW, just as your saying 2bSolo must use RB and he is not allowed to use a DAW because if he does then it is contradicting you and it's saying to you that RB is crap and this is totally unacceptable to you, and here we go: Denialville all over again, what is the stage after denial, will you get to it in this lifetime ??
By The Way, 2bSolo. What computer system are you using? Can you give some details about what it is. Example; I open the Control Panel and click on System. It shows me these details. Intel Core i5-3230M CPU 2.60Ghz 8.00 GB Ram 64-bit Etc... I'm trying to stay on your original topic. The computer system you are using might have a bearing on what programs you can or can not use. I'm thinking maybe you get crashes because your system might not be adequate or something. Not enough RAM. Or, maybe you have some software conflicts going on. Or, maybe a virus or something. If this is the problem then you might get similar issues with any DAW you change to. I'd hate to see you go through a change to a different DAW just to have more issues. I know I used to have issues until I removed/uninstalled iTunes. It was a few years ago and I don't remember exactly what it was but it was something frustrating right after I installed iTunes so I figured that was the problem. It took me a few weeks to finally trace my steps back to when the trouble began. I deleted iTunes, restarted and all was back to normal. Maybe you have something like that going on. So, tell us what you are working with there. Also, I noticed someone mention the difference between 32 and 64 bit. A 64 bit machine will run either 64 or 32 bit programs and plug ins. And, a 64 bit DAW program on a 64 bit machine will run 64 bit and 32 bit plug ins. It will run both. But, a 32 bit machine won't run a 64 bit program. A 32 bit program won't run 64 bit plug ins regardless if it is on a 64 bit machine. If you are trying to run 64 bit plug ins on a 32 bit version of RB it's not going to work. jBridge is suppose to remedy this in most cases but I imagine a big plug in like SampleTank might struggle once you start loading its channels with instrument samples. Anyhow, I commend your patience as the PG forum congress attempts to settle their differences.
Tobias, I agree with you about things running in the background. That is why many many times I have said turn off everything running in the background like your anti-stuff. Also in device manager disable your Ethernet card. That way your computer clock is only running your music generating software. This is why my music computer is off-line 99% of the time; the only time it is on line is for updates, both Win 10 and software.
I have a 64 bit, Intel i7, 16 gigs of ram computer and I have had RB crash. However I very rarely use RB so the problem could have been me. Because I rarely use RB I have no desire to determine what caused the crashes. YMMV
Life is short so make sure you spend as much time as possible on the Internet arguing with strangers.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
I am going to try and reply to all of these comments.
First, I am not a PG Music basher. Without their products, I would not be able to record my songs the way I hear them. My impression,strictly an impression, is that BB is the primary product and that it gets more attention than RB from the company.
I like many things about RB, particularly the interface.
Jazzmammal is right about getting started with ST3. It is difficult. If hadn't had trouble with other VST's, I wouldn't have brought it up. But I did. I love being able to use RT's. Changing DAWs won't change that. However, I can't record my songs without midi. For that, I need to be able to use VST's. If I can't get them to work consistently with RB, I need something else.
As far as the crashes on Time Stretch, why should I try to recreate it when I am following the prompts? IMO, if you follow the prompts, it should work and the computer shouldn't crash. And you shouldn't have to do special setups or delete files that come with the program. If that's the trick, PG should take those out and do an update.
One thing about the Time Stretch feature: It seems you can stretch the track by dragging it. When I read the instructions for Time Stretch on RB, I don't see that feature. Did I overlook it?
As far as my computer, it is an i5 running Win10. It has 6gb of RAM. Processor speed is 2.6ghz. 64 bit. Works fine on BB. Tobias, I am going to try to find out if something else is causing this. Thanks for the tip.
As far as another DAW crashing: I am starting a song with Reaper. I haven't paid for it yet. I will look for crashes as I do that. So far, it has not balked or crashed once. Other users on this forum have had similar experiences with RB and solved them by moving to Reaper.
Finally, a word to Jazzmammal. I appreciate your perspective and I have told you so. I have asked you if we could just agree to disagree. If you have other comments for me about this issue, would you send me a PM rather than post them to the forum?
2bSolo, your computer looks more than adequate for BIAB, as you say. If you want to be sure, you could download and run the free Geekbench 4 and report your single-core speed here. I'm guessing you will get 3500 or so, and anything above around 2000 is fine (my numbers - not official standards).
For others, I am the one who suggested 2bSolo post his question here, in the Off-topic Forum. We have often had great discussions about non-PG Music software here, including what DAW to use. His question was Mixcraft vs. Reaper. Not RealBand.
I apologize to you, 2bSolo, for all the angst some posters added to this topic and for getting you into this situation. You did nothing to cause it.
BIAB 2026 Win Audiophile. Software: Fender Studio One 8, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Fender Quantom HD8 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyle.
FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
MIDI Styles Set 93: Look Ma! More MIDI 16: SynthMaster
MIDI SuperTracks Set 47: More SynthMaster
Instrumental Studies 25 - Soul Jazz Guitar Soloing
Artist Performance Set 20: Songs with Vocals 10
RealDrums Stems Set 10: Groovin' Sticks
SynthMaster Sounds & Styles Set 2 (sounds & styles with audio demos)
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One of our representatives will be happy to help you on our Live Chat or by email. Our hours of operation are from
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