I can honestly say that in my forty plus years of making my living working in music, this is the first time I have ever heard of bands and club owners having to pay ASCAP for doing covers in the clubs.
We were a cover band - classic Country/old Rock and Roll. All of the other local bands were/are cover bands as well. In all my years, nobody ever approached us about the need to pay royalties for all the songs were were doing/covering. Nor any other band. As I said, it was never heard of.
I DID get tagged for not keeping up with my musican's union dues many, many years ago.
I am the Raleigh Chapter Coordinator for the Nashville Songwriter's Association International. (NSAI.) We meet once a month (the third Wednesday) at Sam Ash. Some really talented people around here (in all genres) are a part of NSAI.
We would love to have you drop by our group sometime as a guest speaker, if you want, to share what you know about the industry. People would eat it up with a spoon.
You may even find a songwriting buddy, and I will be happy to answer any questions you have about Band in Box. I will send you a PM with my email, but I am pretty easy to find. It is hard for me to be a troll because I am all over the Internet. Too late for privacy now. My whole life is out there so I have nowhere to hide.
People VERY close to me work with the lawyers and other folks at NC State Government so looks it like we have a few things in common.
Happy Thanksgiving.
David Snyder Songwriter/Renaissance Man Studio + Fingers
As with about anything, there are invisible under currents clouding the issues of copyright in the USA. And, as is almost typical, the trails lead back to the congressional dome. How many remember Sonny Bono of Sonny and Cher? Remember when he became a US Representative? Some of the copyright "reforms" Sonny was able to push through were actually laughable. Here's a reasonably educated article: https://harvardmagazine.com/2012/07/a-radical-fix-for-the-republic
I can honestly say that in my forty plus years of making my living working in music, this is the first time I have ever heard of bands and club owners having to pay ASCAP for doing covers in the clubs.
We were a cover band - classic Country/old Rock and Roll. All of the other local bands were/are cover bands as well. In all my years, nobody ever approached us about the need to pay royalties for all the songs were were doing/covering. Nor any other band. As I said, it was never heard of.
I DID get tagged for not keeping up with my musican's union dues many, many years ago.
You live in Canada. ASCAP and BMI are American PRO's. Canada has it's own equivalent and it's own laws regarding intellectual property.
Many restaurants locally in NC-USA have ASCAP or BMI stickers on their doors. I've played in many bars also with the sticker on the front door. One place, a private club where we were the house band, had a visit from the PRO rep and while they never came to us to ask questions, the owner informed us they did speak to him and he wanted us to provide a set list of the songs we played over the last several months.... the further back the better. They don't speak to the bands because the bands rarely own the venue. It's the owner who has the liability and responsibility to pay the royalties and license fee. Shortly after the PRO was there and we provided the set list to the owner, a BMI sticker was proudly placed on the front door glass.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.com Add nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both.
The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
I agree, Pat, but either way, the cost gets pushed along to the venue.
Thank goodness none of those regulations were in effect, or least not employed during the time I was coming up through the ranks.
Now, at my advanced age, I'm settling for writing and recording my tunes with no thought of using those home-brewed songs for anything but my own pleasure. But, I guess there's really nothing wrong with 'Still trying to hold on to a dream that's long gone' (lyrics from one of my latest songs).
I've made it a point to notice, and so far all the commercial places I've played have had ASCAP stickers, not on the front doors, but mostly at the manager's office.
I feel good about that.
But I can't help feeling sorry for the non-profit condominium that is paying.
But I don't agree with the 25mph speed limit on Indrio Road either, but I obey it. I'm sure the people with children on that street appreciate it.
Insights and incites by Notes
PS. JohnJohnJohn I guess we will just have to agree to disagree on that subject. Everyone has a right to an opinion, and friends don't have to agree on everything.
Notes, the music cops, not a good thing for small or private menu's, and strong DWI laws, a good thing all around, have been the causes for closing many places for bands to play around here.
I haven't lost all of my marbles but there is a small hole in the bag someplace!
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
Notes, the music cops, not a good thing for small or private menu's, and strong DWI laws, a good thing all around, have been the causes for closing many places for bands to play around here.
The strong DWI laws have definitely taken their toll on our business. But driving drunk should not be tolerated. It is never OK to endanger the lives of innocent people.
That's why I moved from the lounge business to the private party business back in the early 1990s. The people in the retirement community can drive their golf carts home. The people in the condominium can take the elevator. The people at the yacht and country clubs come out for dinner with dancing afterwards and leave the club with the legal limit in their bloodstreams.
As the lounge business got worse for musicians, I see more and more competition for the private gigs. That doesn't bother me though, we are better than the majority, and our gig schedule proves it.
I know this is drifting off topic, but IMHO the biggest thing hurting our business is Television.
When my parents grew up, TV was 3 channels in black-and-white with tinny sound. In my younger days TV was a half dozen stations with grainy color, low rez picture(525 lines), and tinny sound (it was a function of the analog bandwidth devoted to the audio part of the signal). In order to see and hear live music, you had to go out where live music was being played.
Now you have a zillion channels, super HD screens that can be more than 50 inches, and up to 7.1 high fidelity digital sound. You can have The Rolling Stones, Slash, Nicki Minaj, or Ariana Grande in your living room. No need to go out. And with a Cable or Satellite monthly subscription payment that can easily climb to $300, who can afford to go out?
To get back on topic. I think the ASCAP people should leave the private party people alone. I know it's the letter of the law, but I think it oversteps the intent of the law. But that is just this layman's opinion.
I was particularly interested in seeing settlement data from the elderly people who know nothing about computers yet were taken to task for the actions of their grandchildren.
A true story, the CPA firm I work for has some Hollywood actors as clients. One is now in his late 80's and while not a big star was in tons of shows 30 odd years ago as a costar including a few iconic movies. He's been a member of the Academy for years. He was sent a confidential DVD maybe 8 years ago to watch and vote on. His grandson got hold of it, ripped it and posted it online. It had an embedded code to identify where it came from and our client lost his Academy membership over that.
Notes, I was in wedding bands for years so we personally was not really affected by the DWI laws. However a number of my friends quit playing because one, there were fewer and fewer places to play and two, some bands lowered there price to what I was making playing rock in bars back in the 60's, and that wasn't much back then!
I haven't lost all of my marbles but there is a small hole in the bag someplace!
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
I don't want to do weddings, unless they are second or third marriages, but it's a good gig and there is decent money there.
In South Florida there is much more business in the 55 year old and up market, and ever since the 1990s that's where my focus has been. Like weddings the DWI laws are not a factor.
Playing yacht clubs has another advantage, I've been take out for the day on some pretty nice boats that I could never afford to even think about.
The strong DWI laws have definitely taken their toll on our business.
Yup.... NC was .12 and moved to .10 and there really wasn't a big change.... but when it was dropped to .08... people started to get scared. You lose your license automatically for 10 days and perhaps longer after the judge gets done with you.
The .08 started on January 1 of that year... and I was in a house band at the time. The crowds were noticeably smaller instantly. The NC HP used to set just down the road from the club and pull people over who they saw coming out of the parking lot. I was followed numerous times but wasn't concerned because I had stopped drinking on the job long before the DUI level changed because band members were considered employees of the bar...even though we were sub-contractors .... and the ABC law enforcement was a bigger threat than the NCHP. They could also bust us and the bar.... so we curtailed the drinking to prevent issues.
But I could tell some stories on this before the band learned our lessons.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.com Add nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both.
The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
Band-in-a-Box 2026 for Windows Special Offers End Tomorrow (January 15th, 2026) at 11:59 PM PST!
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Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows® Special Offers Extended Until January 15, 2026!
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There are over 100 new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®.
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Band-in-a-Box 2026 Video: The Newly Designed Piano Roll Window
In this video, we explore the updated Piano Roll, complete with a modernized look and exciting new features. You’ll see new filtering options that make it easy to focus on specific note groups, smoother and more intuitive note entry and editing, and enhanced options for zooming, looping, and more.
Band-in-a-Box 2026 Video: AI Stems & Notes - split polyphonic audio into instruments and transcribe
This video demonstrates how to use the new AI-Notes feature together with the AI-Stems splitter, allowing you to select an audio file and have it separated into individual stems while transcribing each one to its own MIDI track. AI-Notes converts polyphonic audio—either full mixes or individual instruments—into MIDI that you can view in notation or play back instantly.
Bonus PAK and 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®
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MIDI Styles Set 92: Look Ma! More MIDI 15: Latin Jazz
MIDI SuperTracks Set 46: Piano & Organ
Instrumental Studies Set 24: Groovin' Blues Soloing
Artist Performance Set 19: Songs with Vocals 9
Playable RealTracks Set 5
RealDrums Stems Set 9: Cool Brushes
SynthMaster Sounds Set 1 (with audio demos)
Android Band-in-a-Box® App (included)
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FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
MIDI Styles Set 93: Look Ma! More MIDI 16: SynthMaster
MIDI SuperTracks Set 47: More SynthMaster
Instrumental Studies 25 - Soul Jazz Guitar Soloing
Artist Performance Set 20: Songs with Vocals 10
RealDrums Stems Set 10: Groovin' Sticks
SynthMaster Sounds & Styles Set 2 (sounds & styles with audio demos)
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I will send you a PM with my email, but I am pretty easy to find. It is hard for me to be a troll because I am all over the Internet. Too late for privacy now. My whole life is out there so I have nowhere to hide.
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