How did you create the mp3 from BIAB? I notice that it is 192 kbps, 48,000 Hz.
The arranger file, on the other hand is 192/44,100.
This difference in frequency might be impacting in some way. I'm not sure how but it is something to consider.
In BIAB, such a frequency difference can cause issues between MIDI and audio if the soundcard is not set so that BIAB can take control and operate it at 44,100. This is a Windows setting. (See image below -- it's #4.)
Also, rendered files in BIAB default to create an acidized loop which means that if you drop the audio into (say) Sonar, it will automatically adjust to the tempo set in Sonar. I wonder if this too might be impacting in some way?
These are a couple of things that I'd investigate just to make sure that they are not having any impact.
Both files are at 105BPM on my PC. 30 secs work in Reaper where they do match (once you know how)
I rendered them as 128 bit MP3, I also dropped the level on them to reduce the clipping.
If you want them better let me know it is easy to fix. This is as much a proof of concept.
You should be able to pull these into Sonar. But as Noel says check your bit rates are the same. Also I’d work with wav files until the final render. If the BIAB files are acidized then set Sonar so that the BPM is as per the Arranger (104.862). (There are many ways to come to a similar point).
I love problems like this. It keeps me sane.
Tony
Last edited by Teunis; 11/28/1801:02 AM.
HP i7-4770 16GB 1TB SSD, Win 10 Home, Focusrite 2i2 3rd Gen, Launchkey 61, Maton CW80, Telecaster, Ovation Elite TX, Yamaha Pacifica 612 BB 2022(912) RB 2022(2), CakeWalk, Reaper 6, Audacity, Melodyne 5 Editor, Izotope Music Production Suite 4.1
Tony is right on the money with this. That's what I was trying to get at a few posts ago when I was saying if the tempo was off just a fraction of a BPM it would sound in sync initially but would get more and more out of sync as the song progresses.
I had to go through the exact same process a while back when my songwriting partner sent me a piano track that was slightly off BPM wise; I set reaper to the BPM of her file, loaded it in, then set the project tempo to the proper BPM, reaper does the rest.
Tony, Thank you for testing! I was very persistent and developer of arranger replied this morning with note, saying he is working on Midi SYNC in. I am keeping my fingers crossed as this is a huge problem for me, that hopefully will get resolved the orthodox way.
I had forum window opened since yesterday... now I see there is a second page
Noel, Dave, Tony, thank you for taking a second look!
I have tried many (many!) ways, thinking it is related to audio settings or sound card or buffers. I tried internal / external interface. Asio card, Wasapi Exclusive, Asio4All. Running latencymon, disabling everything and recording in "airplane mode", recording live from computer to computer and some other weird approaches before posting here
I initially import WAVs from software arranger to DAW. They do not adhere to bars well by themselves. They start to drift after 4th bar... and I am not talking about jazz here. Silly Disco stuff that is pretty straight forward. Hopefully developer will keep his word and fixes tempo issues in his synth.
Tony, if developer fails, I think your approach is the easiest of all.
Tony, spot on! Reaper did the magic! I am surprised how well it came out.
When I was trying to fool around with file, it showed fluctuated tempo in Audio Snap... Not sure how Reaper did it. Was it only BMP fix or it used a more advanced algorithm, like moved transient markers to make it consistent with bars?
Will sit some more with Cakewalk tonight. There must be a similar way if it is only tempo. Good stuff to learn either way for future adventures
As I said Sonar behaves a little different. I used Melodyne to tell me the BPM of the file but I could have used Reaper (slightly differently). Then I set the Reaper project file to the speed of the worst file loaded the file and changed the project speed to 105. Job done. Then added the next file.
That was the method I used for simplicity. There is a more correct way in Reaper see Kenny Gioia videos about setting track tempos.
I know I keep on about it but I find Reaper much better than Sonar for audio tracks (stretching, altering tempos, slicing and merging) and Sonar much better than Reaper for midi (notation). There are tools in Sonar for editing midi most people are unaware of that I don’t think are available in Reaper.
I find it confusing that folk will have 10 or more compressors or EQs because different VSTs behave differently and yet try to do all in one DAW. Most DAWs have slightly different features and behaviours. Different tools for different jobs. Learning to use Reaper for example will enhance your knowledge of Sonar or RealBand or BIAB even VSTs. The same is true for any DAW I am not saying Reaper will teach you more but having multiple tools for multiple jobs will teach you more. IMHO.
Tony, good point. For the available features and price Reaper is a winner. I have to wait for a vacation, so I have a couple of full days to explore it.
The only thing Reaper is missing (I think), is a touch navigation. Believe it or not, it was a game changer for me with Cakewalk. Navigating through timeline, pinch zoom on parts, dynamic track width and other good things. I will have a friend over on weekend, he is a Reaper fan. I will ask him to give me a quick tour into workflow.
Developer of arranger confirmed that work on MIDI SyncIn started. I never used it before, but I am exited as a child before Christmas as he said it will alleviate latency issues. The only part that I do not understand is to where it should be "synced in" to? To BIAB or to DAW? Since these are only 2 types of imported (not live) Waveforms I will be using, logic tells me that it has to be synced to BIAB clock if it works in that manner...
Misha, actually I’m an idiot. I got thinking this cannot be hard in Sonar.
Ok. In Sonar - Set the project up at 105 BPM. Import both files onto different tracks.
On both tracks. Where the track shows “clips” select “Audio Transients” in the dropdown box.
Then on each track Right click in the clip and select “Enable Audio Snap” from the dropdown box.
In the audio snap box - under where it says threshold set the Resolution to whole (Whole Note). Then select the Quantize box set the Quantize to the whole note.
Job done in Sonar. Very simple, exactly as you want it.
Sorry for the angst. Marvellous what a belly full of booze can do.
Tony
Last edited by Teunis; 11/28/1811:04 PM.
HP i7-4770 16GB 1TB SSD, Win 10 Home, Focusrite 2i2 3rd Gen, Launchkey 61, Maton CW80, Telecaster, Ovation Elite TX, Yamaha Pacifica 612 BB 2022(912) RB 2022(2), CakeWalk, Reaper 6, Audacity, Melodyne 5 Editor, Izotope Music Production Suite 4.1
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