|
Log in to post
|
Print Thread |
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 886
Expert
|
OP
Expert
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 886 |
what quality are these .wma's? What quality are the audiophile .wav's?
This becomes important when working in audio mode. I generally use .ogg files due to lossiness in mp3 and wma formats.
Moo
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,616
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,616 |
From what I've seen, the wma are 160 and 128. The wav's are the original masters that are used to make the wma's.
You probably know that .ogg files are also lossy just like the mp3 and wma.
R
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 886
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 886 |
To tell the truth I am surprised at how decent the .wma's sound.
And yes, .ogg is a lossy format like mp3 & .wma......
i5 3.20GHz, 32gb RAM, 1tb SSD OS, 12tb HDD, 4gb gForce vid card, 32" monitor, Audient id44, Win10 x64, BiaB/RB 2023, Reaper 6,IK Multimedia Total Studio 3.5 MAX, Waves 10
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,458
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,458 |
I've been using the .WMAs on production tracks for a couple of years now. No real problems. I'm sure some audiophiles will tell me at some point how bad they sound, but it hasn't happened yet.
Best, Tom SmithWin10/64 • i7-8700K • 24 GB RAM BIAB 2026 • Reaper 7.57 • Izotope MPS AKG C1000S • IK iRig I/O Pro
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 886
Expert
|
|
OP
Expert
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 886 |
Maybe I didn't ask the question properly- What is the sampling rate of the wma file real tracks? This is important. Thanks.
Moo
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,458
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 2,458 |
As Rachael said above: According to AudioShell, some are 160 Kbps, some 128 Kbps. The Holds seem to be 48 Kbps.
Best, Tom SmithWin10/64 • i7-8700K • 24 GB RAM BIAB 2026 • Reaper 7.57 • Izotope MPS AKG C1000S • IK iRig I/O Pro
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,616
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,616 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,513
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,513 |
Of the .WMA files I looked at in /Holds, the sample rate is 44,100. The bit rate is 48 kbps. They were mono files, 16-bit. They sound quite good, auditioned by themselves.
The audiophile versions of the Holds are also 44,100, 16-bit mono, except they are .WAV and are not compressed, so they are about 10 times larger than the comparable .WMA version.
BIAB 2026 Win Audiophile. Software: Fender Studio One 8, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus Quantom HD8 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 225
Apprentice
|
|
Apprentice
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 225 |
Yes, the sampling rate is probably the same as the wavs, 44.1.
OGGS are also lossy, like mp3 and wma or aac.
Most of us cannot hear the difference. Some can hear a difference, or at least think they can. To spend that much more, they must really hear or think a lot of difference!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 886
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 886 |
Quote:
Some can hear a difference, or at least think they can. To spend that much more, they must really hear or think a lot of difference!
What to try a cool effect? The next time you record backing vocals, after you have mixed them, convert them to an mp3 file...way cool effect!
There is a difference between a .wav & a .wma, mp3, or any lossy scheme, and where most folks can tell it is in the human voice, because we know what it should sound like! 
i5 3.20GHz, 32gb RAM, 1tb SSD OS, 12tb HDD, 4gb gForce vid card, 32" monitor, Audient id44, Win10 x64, BiaB/RB 2023, Reaper 6,IK Multimedia Total Studio 3.5 MAX, Waves 10
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 886
Expert
|
|
OP
Expert
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 886 |
My love of OGG is due to the ease of lining up tracks when working with collaborators online. MP3 and WMA create major timing issues when brought into Sonar and other DAWS. OGG and APE are the best for collaboration online.
Moo
If it has four legs and moos...it MIGHT be Mr Moohead.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,513
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,513 |
That's interesting about the voice and compression, JCS. I notice it most on the drums, but I don't work much with vocals.
BIAB 2026 Win Audiophile. Software: Fender Studio One 8, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus Quantom HD8 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502 |
With a real good mp3 codec, like the LAME encoder, I'd bet he couldn't pass a double blindfold test on it, vocals or not.
There are physical reasons behind my bet.
--Mac
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 15,944
PG Music Staff
|
|
PG Music Staff
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 15,944 |
>>> My love of OGG is due to the ease of lining up tracks when working with collaborators online. MP3 and WMA create major timing issues when brought into Sonar and other DAWS. OGG and APE are the best for collaboration online.
There are no timing issues with WMA and M4a files as we use them in Band-in-a-Box. When you drag or work with the files they are WAVS anyway, so you are not manipulating WMA's.
The files are typicaly 160kbps, 44K. They are stereo or mono, depening on the instrument (e.g. Drums, Guitars, Piano are stereo. Bass and solo instruments are usually mono.)
Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 886
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 886 |
Mac, if you are referring to the ability of our auditory sense ability to replace missing information, I understand about all of that...it is what the mp3 format is based around, this ability for our systems to replace the missing info. I have taken "blindfold" tests along with some other friends who wanted to try it out, and yes, we were not perfect. But when I can here the difference around 70% of the time (some were better, some where worse) then it is unreasonable to say it is all in someone's head, and that they "think" that they can tell a difference. It is like the arguments about how a DAW sounds, "Do the null test!" is the cry, but it is funny that folks can usually pick their favorite DAW from a list of tracks that have been played back thru several DAW's, when they all use the same Master track for all of them. It's all horses for course really, and something that will always have folks on both sides going "Oh Yea?!"  
i5 3.20GHz, 32gb RAM, 1tb SSD OS, 12tb HDD, 4gb gForce vid card, 32" monitor, Audient id44, Win10 x64, BiaB/RB 2023, Reaper 6,IK Multimedia Total Studio 3.5 MAX, Waves 10
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502 |
Quote:
Mac, if you are referring to the ability of our auditory sense ability to replace missing information, I understand about all of that...it is what the mp3 format is based around, this ability for our systems to replace the missing info.
The human voice simply does not contain much if at all above the 17KHz mp3 brickwall xeiling. Not hardly approaches it. That is the first physical hurdle I referred to above and the largest. It has nothing to do with psycho=acoustics, which is what you are referring to here. It is above 17KHz mark where the "losses" are most in an mp3 file.
Quote:
I have taken "blindfold" tests along with some other friends who wanted to try it out, and yes, we were not perfect. But when I can here the difference around 70% of the time (some were better, some where worse) then it is unreasonable to say it is all in someone's head, and that they "think" that they can tell a difference.
As an engineer, I cannot make a call on that either way. It could happen 70% of the time when throwing random answers at it also. Comprehensive testing might involve multiple, repeated tests, but really, unless you could nail it *every* time, then it is either not as apparent as you may think it to be or nonexistant. BTW -- when referring to auditory response, it is spelled, "hear" and not "here"...
If you can't identify it 100% of the time, be prepared to find out that it really isn't there to hear.
And -- be able to say out loud exactly what it is that you are listening for. Not in layman's terms, but in terms of the exact component or components.
Quote:
It is like the arguments about how a DAW sounds, "Do the null test!" is the cry, but it is funny that folks can usually pick their favorite DAW from a list of tracks that have been played back thru several DAW's, when they all use the same Master track for all of them.
Hear we go with that "usually" again...
Usually doesn't make it. Either you can hear the difference, ALL THE TIME, or you can't.
Example would be Absolute Pitch. Proven, by those who have acquired it, to be 100% accurate, 100% of the time.
The human ear system is actually quite infallible. It is that gray stuff in between that often blurs the issue.
Quote:
It's all horses for course really, and something that will always have folks on both sides going "Oh Yea?!"
And such is why companies can sell ridicuously priced "Audiophile grade" speaker cables that tout ridiculous things like the Oxygen Impregnated Copper for the high frequencies to travel on the outside of the conductor "better". Um, first of all, we are talking AUDIO frequencies here, the skin effect would not apply until the frequencies got MUCH higher than that. Physics.
There still exist a few codecs for mp3 that make hearing that it is mp3 readily apparent, though. The old "swishy" and "phasey" sound. That, too, is a dead giveaway and one should be able to nail its use 100% of the time, double blindfold or no.
--Mac
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 886
Expert
|
|
OP
Expert
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 886 |
Peter-
Thanks for the info. Now I understand why you can drag these files into Sonar. That's really good news.
Moo
If it has four legs and moos...it MIGHT be Mr Moohead.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 886
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 886 |
You are a very intelligent person, but the arrogance in some of your responses are too funny!  So let me get this straight, if you can not hear/repeat something 100%, then it does not count because it is not possible to hear/repeat it 100%?  What about allowing for the bad codecs, if everyone listen to the same bad codec (and there is a lot of music converted with them out there) , and "here" the difference between the mp3 & the wave, does that make them wrong to say that they can hear the difference? And usually does make it. I am sure that as a musician you usually play your instrument 100% dead on, but if you blow a couple parts thru out a gig does that mean you are a amateur, or do you keep your stats as a good musician because you "usually" play it 100%? Different levels of assumptions going on I reckon... I guess we will agree to disagree, spelling mistakes on a Internet Forum and all.... We hope you & yours have a Great Christmas!
i5 3.20GHz, 32gb RAM, 1tb SSD OS, 12tb HDD, 4gb gForce vid card, 32" monitor, Audient id44, Win10 x64, BiaB/RB 2023, Reaper 6,IK Multimedia Total Studio 3.5 MAX, Waves 10
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502 |
Quote:
You are a very intelligent person, but the arrogance in some of your responses are too funny!
Thank you for the flowers.
But really, I think you are confusing arrogance and someone who is simply adament because he just may know something about what he's talking about.
Quote:
So let me get this straight, if you can not hear/repeat something 100%, then it does not count because it is not possible to hear/repeat it 100%?
Pretty much. Example given concerned Absolute Pitch. If you can't identify the note heard 100% of the time, it wouldn't be called "absolute" now would it?
Quote:
What about allowing for the bad codecs, if everyone listen to the same bad codec (and there is a lot of music converted with them out there) , and "here" the difference between the mp3 & the wave, does that make them wrong to say that they can hear the difference?
Of course not, but your given example also doesn't have very much to do with what we're discussing here. And if you read my entire post up there, I believe I did indeed talk about the differences in codecs. If there is any assumption on my part at all here, it is that you would have done your blindfold using a reasonably good codec, if not the best available.
Quote:
And usually does make it. I am sure that as a musician you usually play your instrument 100% dead on, but if you blow a couple parts thru out a gig does that mean you are a amateur, or do you keep your stats as a good musician because you "usually" play it 100%?
The 100% part has always been my goal, yes. Amateur or pro doesn't matter here. Matter of fact, the amateur may just have more at stake than the pro. From the French, the word means, literally, "love of the craft". A pro merely got paid to do the job. Common misconception nowadays, I once wrote a little diatribe about that on another forum, one of the moderators made it permanent, misprints and all: What's an amateur?
Quote:
Different levels of assumptions going on I reckon... [/qyote]
I try to assume nothing, which is why I will call out anyone trying to make the subjective become the objective. . Merely trying to pass on information that I know to be true. Measurably, demonstrably true.
Quote:
I guess we will agree to disagree, spelling mistakes on a Internet Forum and all....
I am hoping that you will agree to reassess. Learning is and knowledge is power.
Quote:
We hope you & yours have a Great Christmas!
The same to you and yours.
(Um, is that the Royal "we"?...)
--Mac
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 886
Expert
|
|
OP
Expert
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 886 |
I'd like to report a thread hijacking to air traffic control.....
Moo
If it has four legs and moos...it MIGHT be Mr Moohead.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Update to Build 10 of RealBand® 2026 for Windows®!
If you're already using RealBand 2026 for Windows, download build 10 to get all the latest additions and enhancements.
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® users: Build 904 now available!
If you're already using Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®, make sure to grab the latest update! Build 904 is now available for download and includes the newest additions and enhancements from our team.
Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows® users: Build 1237 is now available!
Already a Band-in-a-Box 2026 for Windows user? Stay up to date and download the build 1237 to get all the latest additions and enhancements.
PowerTracks Pro 2026 for Windows is Here!
PowerTracks 2026 is here—bringing powerful new enhancements designed to make your production workflow faster, smoother, and more intuitive than ever.
The enhanced Mixer now shows Track Type and Instrument icons for instant track recognition, while a new grid option simplifies editing views. Non-floating windows adopt a modern title bar style, replacing the legacy blue bar.
The Master Volume is now applied at the end of the audio chain for consistent levels and full-signal master effects.
Tablature now includes a “Save bends when saving XML” option for improved compatibility with PG Music tools. Plus, you can instantly match all track heights with a simple Ctrl-release after resizing, and Add2 chords from MGU/SGU files are now fully supported... and more!
Get started today—first-time packages start at just $49.
Already using PowerTracks Pro Audio? Upgrade for as little as $29 and enjoy the latest improvements!
Order now!
Band-in-a-Box 2026 for Windows Special Offers End Tomorrow (January 15th, 2026) at 11:59 PM PST!
Time really is running out! Save up to 50% on Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows® upgrades and receive a FREE Bonus PAK—only when you order by 11:59 PM PST on Thursday, January 15, 2026!
We've added many major new features and new content in a redesigned Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®!
Version 2026 introduces a modernized GUI redesign across the program, with updated toolbars, refreshed windows, smoother workflows, and a new Dark Mode option. There’s also a new side toolbar for quicker access to commonly used windows, and the new Multi-View feature lets you arrange multiple windows as layered panels without overlap, making it easier to customize your workspace.
Another exciting new addition is the new AI-Notes feature, which can transcribe polyphonic audio into MIDI. You can view the results in notation or play them back as MIDI, and choose whether to process an entire track or focus on specific parts like drums, bass, guitars/piano, or vocals. There's over 100 new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®.
There's an amazing collection of new content too, including 202 RealTracks, new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 5, two RealDrums Stems sets, XPro Styles PAK 10, Xtra Styles PAK 21, and much more!
Upgrade your Band-in-a-Box for Windows to save up to 50% on most Band-in-a-Box® 2026 upgrade packages!
Plus, when you order your Band-in-a-Box® 2026 upgrade during our special, you'll receive a Free Bonus PAK of exciting new add-ons.
If you need any help deciding which package is the best option for you, just let us know. We are here to help!
Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows® Special Offers Extended Until January 15, 2026!
Good news! You still have time to upgrade to the latest version of Band-in-a-Box® for Windows® and save. Our Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows® special now runs through January 15, 2025!
We've packed Band-in-a-Box® 2026 with major new features, enhancements, and an incredible lineup of new content! The program now sports a sleek, modern GUI redesign across the entire interface, including updated toolbars, refreshed windows, smoother workflows, a new dark mode option, and more. The brand-new side toolbar provides quicker access to key windows, while the new Multi-View feature lets you arrange multiple windows as layered panels without overlap, creating a flexible, clutter-free workspace. We have an amazing new “AI-Notes” feature. This transcribes polyphonic audio into MIDI so you can view it in notation or play it back as MIDI. You can process an entire track (all pitched instruments and drums) or focus on individual parts like drums, bass, guitars/piano, or vocals. There's an amazing collection of new content too, including 202 RealTracks, new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 5, two RealDrums Stems sets, XPro Styles PAK 10, Xtra Styles PAK 21, and much more!
There are over 100 new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows®.
When you order purchase Band-in-a-Box® 2026 before 11:59 PM PST on January 15th, you'll also receive a Free Bonus PAK packed with exciting new add-ons.
Upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows® today! Check out the Band-in-a-Box® packages page for all the purchase options available.
Happy New Year!
Thank you for being part of the Band-in-a-Box® community.
Wishing you and yours a very happy 2026—Happy New Year from all of us at PG Music!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forums57
Topics86,086
Posts799,999
Members40,031
| |
Most Online44,367
Mar 4th, 2026
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dansk
Deutsch - Windows
Español
Français - Windows
Italiano - Windows
Nederlands
Polski
Português
Svenskt
русский
Japanese
Simplified Chinese
Traditional Chinese
Korean