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what quality are these .wma's? What quality are the audiophile .wav's?
This becomes important when working in audio mode. I generally use .ogg files due to lossiness in mp3 and wma formats.
Moo
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From what I've seen, the wma are 160 and 128. The wav's are the original masters that are used to make the wma's.
You probably know that .ogg files are also lossy just like the mp3 and wma.
R
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To tell the truth I am surprised at how decent the .wma's sound.
And yes, .ogg is a lossy format like mp3 & .wma......
i5 3.20GHz, 32gb RAM, 1tb SSD OS, 12tb HDD, 4gb gForce vid card, 32" monitor, Audient id44, Win10 x64, BiaB/RB 2023, Reaper 6,IK Multimedia Total Studio 3.5 MAX, Waves 10
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I've been using the .WMAs on production tracks for a couple of years now. No real problems. I'm sure some audiophiles will tell me at some point how bad they sound, but it hasn't happened yet.
Best, Tom SmithWin10/64 • i7-8700K • 24 GB RAM BIAB 2026 • Reaper 7.57 • Izotope MPS AKG C1000S • IK iRig I/O Pro
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Maybe I didn't ask the question properly- What is the sampling rate of the wma file real tracks? This is important. Thanks.
Moo
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As Rachael said above: According to AudioShell, some are 160 Kbps, some 128 Kbps. The Holds seem to be 48 Kbps.
Best, Tom SmithWin10/64 • i7-8700K • 24 GB RAM BIAB 2026 • Reaper 7.57 • Izotope MPS AKG C1000S • IK iRig I/O Pro
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Of the .WMA files I looked at in /Holds, the sample rate is 44,100. The bit rate is 48 kbps. They were mono files, 16-bit. They sound quite good, auditioned by themselves.
The audiophile versions of the Holds are also 44,100, 16-bit mono, except they are .WAV and are not compressed, so they are about 10 times larger than the comparable .WMA version.
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Yes, the sampling rate is probably the same as the wavs, 44.1.
OGGS are also lossy, like mp3 and wma or aac.
Most of us cannot hear the difference. Some can hear a difference, or at least think they can. To spend that much more, they must really hear or think a lot of difference!
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Quote:
Some can hear a difference, or at least think they can. To spend that much more, they must really hear or think a lot of difference!
What to try a cool effect? The next time you record backing vocals, after you have mixed them, convert them to an mp3 file...way cool effect!
There is a difference between a .wav & a .wma, mp3, or any lossy scheme, and where most folks can tell it is in the human voice, because we know what it should sound like! 
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My love of OGG is due to the ease of lining up tracks when working with collaborators online. MP3 and WMA create major timing issues when brought into Sonar and other DAWS. OGG and APE are the best for collaboration online.
Moo
If it has four legs and moos...it MIGHT be Mr Moohead.
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That's interesting about the voice and compression, JCS. I notice it most on the drums, but I don't work much with vocals.
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With a real good mp3 codec, like the LAME encoder, I'd bet he couldn't pass a double blindfold test on it, vocals or not.
There are physical reasons behind my bet.
--Mac
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>>> My love of OGG is due to the ease of lining up tracks when working with collaborators online. MP3 and WMA create major timing issues when brought into Sonar and other DAWS. OGG and APE are the best for collaboration online.
There are no timing issues with WMA and M4a files as we use them in Band-in-a-Box. When you drag or work with the files they are WAVS anyway, so you are not manipulating WMA's.
The files are typicaly 160kbps, 44K. They are stereo or mono, depening on the instrument (e.g. Drums, Guitars, Piano are stereo. Bass and solo instruments are usually mono.)
Have Fun!
Peter Gannon
PG Music Inc.
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Mac, if you are referring to the ability of our auditory sense ability to replace missing information, I understand about all of that...it is what the mp3 format is based around, this ability for our systems to replace the missing info. I have taken "blindfold" tests along with some other friends who wanted to try it out, and yes, we were not perfect. But when I can here the difference around 70% of the time (some were better, some where worse) then it is unreasonable to say it is all in someone's head, and that they "think" that they can tell a difference. It is like the arguments about how a DAW sounds, "Do the null test!" is the cry, but it is funny that folks can usually pick their favorite DAW from a list of tracks that have been played back thru several DAW's, when they all use the same Master track for all of them. It's all horses for course really, and something that will always have folks on both sides going "Oh Yea?!"  
i5 3.20GHz, 32gb RAM, 1tb SSD OS, 12tb HDD, 4gb gForce vid card, 32" monitor, Audient id44, Win10 x64, BiaB/RB 2023, Reaper 6,IK Multimedia Total Studio 3.5 MAX, Waves 10
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Quote:
Mac, if you are referring to the ability of our auditory sense ability to replace missing information, I understand about all of that...it is what the mp3 format is based around, this ability for our systems to replace the missing info.
The human voice simply does not contain much if at all above the 17KHz mp3 brickwall xeiling. Not hardly approaches it. That is the first physical hurdle I referred to above and the largest. It has nothing to do with psycho=acoustics, which is what you are referring to here. It is above 17KHz mark where the "losses" are most in an mp3 file.
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I have taken "blindfold" tests along with some other friends who wanted to try it out, and yes, we were not perfect. But when I can here the difference around 70% of the time (some were better, some where worse) then it is unreasonable to say it is all in someone's head, and that they "think" that they can tell a difference.
As an engineer, I cannot make a call on that either way. It could happen 70% of the time when throwing random answers at it also. Comprehensive testing might involve multiple, repeated tests, but really, unless you could nail it *every* time, then it is either not as apparent as you may think it to be or nonexistant. BTW -- when referring to auditory response, it is spelled, "hear" and not "here"...
If you can't identify it 100% of the time, be prepared to find out that it really isn't there to hear.
And -- be able to say out loud exactly what it is that you are listening for. Not in layman's terms, but in terms of the exact component or components.
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It is like the arguments about how a DAW sounds, "Do the null test!" is the cry, but it is funny that folks can usually pick their favorite DAW from a list of tracks that have been played back thru several DAW's, when they all use the same Master track for all of them.
Hear we go with that "usually" again...
Usually doesn't make it. Either you can hear the difference, ALL THE TIME, or you can't.
Example would be Absolute Pitch. Proven, by those who have acquired it, to be 100% accurate, 100% of the time.
The human ear system is actually quite infallible. It is that gray stuff in between that often blurs the issue.
Quote:
It's all horses for course really, and something that will always have folks on both sides going "Oh Yea?!"
And such is why companies can sell ridicuously priced "Audiophile grade" speaker cables that tout ridiculous things like the Oxygen Impregnated Copper for the high frequencies to travel on the outside of the conductor "better". Um, first of all, we are talking AUDIO frequencies here, the skin effect would not apply until the frequencies got MUCH higher than that. Physics.
There still exist a few codecs for mp3 that make hearing that it is mp3 readily apparent, though. The old "swishy" and "phasey" sound. That, too, is a dead giveaway and one should be able to nail its use 100% of the time, double blindfold or no.
--Mac
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Peter-
Thanks for the info. Now I understand why you can drag these files into Sonar. That's really good news.
Moo
If it has four legs and moos...it MIGHT be Mr Moohead.
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You are a very intelligent person, but the arrogance in some of your responses are too funny!  So let me get this straight, if you can not hear/repeat something 100%, then it does not count because it is not possible to hear/repeat it 100%?  What about allowing for the bad codecs, if everyone listen to the same bad codec (and there is a lot of music converted with them out there) , and "here" the difference between the mp3 & the wave, does that make them wrong to say that they can hear the difference? And usually does make it. I am sure that as a musician you usually play your instrument 100% dead on, but if you blow a couple parts thru out a gig does that mean you are a amateur, or do you keep your stats as a good musician because you "usually" play it 100%? Different levels of assumptions going on I reckon... I guess we will agree to disagree, spelling mistakes on a Internet Forum and all.... We hope you & yours have a Great Christmas!
i5 3.20GHz, 32gb RAM, 1tb SSD OS, 12tb HDD, 4gb gForce vid card, 32" monitor, Audient id44, Win10 x64, BiaB/RB 2023, Reaper 6,IK Multimedia Total Studio 3.5 MAX, Waves 10
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You are a very intelligent person, but the arrogance in some of your responses are too funny!
Thank you for the flowers.
But really, I think you are confusing arrogance and someone who is simply adament because he just may know something about what he's talking about.
Quote:
So let me get this straight, if you can not hear/repeat something 100%, then it does not count because it is not possible to hear/repeat it 100%?
Pretty much. Example given concerned Absolute Pitch. If you can't identify the note heard 100% of the time, it wouldn't be called "absolute" now would it?
Quote:
What about allowing for the bad codecs, if everyone listen to the same bad codec (and there is a lot of music converted with them out there) , and "here" the difference between the mp3 & the wave, does that make them wrong to say that they can hear the difference?
Of course not, but your given example also doesn't have very much to do with what we're discussing here. And if you read my entire post up there, I believe I did indeed talk about the differences in codecs. If there is any assumption on my part at all here, it is that you would have done your blindfold using a reasonably good codec, if not the best available.
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And usually does make it. I am sure that as a musician you usually play your instrument 100% dead on, but if you blow a couple parts thru out a gig does that mean you are a amateur, or do you keep your stats as a good musician because you "usually" play it 100%?
The 100% part has always been my goal, yes. Amateur or pro doesn't matter here. Matter of fact, the amateur may just have more at stake than the pro. From the French, the word means, literally, "love of the craft". A pro merely got paid to do the job. Common misconception nowadays, I once wrote a little diatribe about that on another forum, one of the moderators made it permanent, misprints and all: What's an amateur?
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Different levels of assumptions going on I reckon... [/qyote]
I try to assume nothing, which is why I will call out anyone trying to make the subjective become the objective. . Merely trying to pass on information that I know to be true. Measurably, demonstrably true.
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I guess we will agree to disagree, spelling mistakes on a Internet Forum and all....
I am hoping that you will agree to reassess. Learning is and knowledge is power.
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We hope you & yours have a Great Christmas!
The same to you and yours.
(Um, is that the Royal "we"?...)
--Mac
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I'd like to report a thread hijacking to air traffic control.....
Moo
If it has four legs and moos...it MIGHT be Mr Moohead.
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
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Band-in-a-Box 2026 for Windows Special Offers End Tomorrow (January 15th, 2026) at 11:59 PM PST!
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