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Joined: Dec 2014
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I'm sorry if this is redundant. I have not found the magic words for a search to find this question answered. Will "The Trumpet 3" work with BIAB to give me a realistic trumpet sound. If I load an MGU file, for edample, and use realtracks for the backup, can I get a realistic trumpet sound on the (MIDI) melody line this way? Is there a less expensive way? I simple can't stand the sound I get with the built in methods. Of course, I mute the trumpet line much of the time while practicing, but when I want to listen to the whole thing I'd like the trumpet line to sound like a trumpet and not a kazoo. Thanks much, Denver
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Short version: It depends on which version of BiaB you're running. The Trumpet v3 runs in the 64 bit Kontakt Player, so requires that the host program (BiaB) be able to run 64 bit VSTis. BiaB 2018 and prior were 32 bit, so they required jBridge to run 64 bit VSTis. So if you're running BiaB 2018 or prior, you should be able to run The Trumpet in the Kontakt Player if you have jBridge. PG Music offered it as an optional purchase with BiaB. However, the 2019 release of BiaB is now 64 bit native, which means it will be able to run 64 bit VSTis (like Kontakt) without JBridge. So if you're running BiaB 2019, you should be able to run it without jBridge. Caveat: I haven't tested The Trumpet, but I'm running other Kontakt 64 bit libraries under BiaB 2018.
-- David Cuny My virtual singer development blogVocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?BiaB 2025 | Windows 11 | Reaper | Way too many VSTis.
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Joined: Dec 2003
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Denver do you play an instrument? If so let us know what instrument. That way we can help you get more realistic horns via MIDI.
The bumper sticker said "I'm a veterinarian, therefore I can drive like an animal".
Suddenly I realized how many proctologists are on the road.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Joined: Dec 2014
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Thanks for the quick reply. I have no problem upgrading to 2019, though I do have JBridge from an earlier version. Now I am assuming that if I get The Trumpet running with the included player in BIAB what I will get is a better trumpet sound but with the artificial articulation of the current output. That is, all at the same level from attack to end of each note. If I wanted to make the line even more realistic with a real attack and "fall off", etc. what would I be getting into? Would I need to learn the full Kontakt 6 machine? or some other product from these people? I know this is getting above and beyond, but I appreciate any direction you might give. I am a total noob at this despite using (successfully) BIAB for some years as my practice buddy.
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Yes. Bach Mt. Vernon Cornet, Strad model, Bach #6 or Schilke 14 mouthpiece, depending on the sound I want. Also some piano and sometimes a Bach trumpet. Thank you for offering to help. I have used BIAB for some years but all this other is totally new to me.
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Being a trumpet player, it's going to be difficult to find a synth that sounds good to you for a trumpet.
You've heard it sound real for years (and how you like it).
There is always some give/take in this situation.
Do you plan to keep/publish any of the resulting tracks or just use for reference/practice?
I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome
Make your sound your own!
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Joined: Dec 2014
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My use in the immediate future is for reference and practice, but using it live is in the back of my mind. Publishing? I doubt I am that good!
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I agree that it will be hard for you to achieve that real trumpet sound however with the right tools you can come close. You said that you play some piano so if you have or get a MIDI keyboard controller you can add either an expression pedal or a breath controller. That will help you get a more realistic sounding trumpet. Both would be used to control CC11 which means more volume control. You can control a few more CCs with an Akai wind controller: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/589255-REG/Akai_EWI_USB_EWI_USB_Wind_Instrument.htmlIt can be set to a trumpet like fingering.It takes a little time to master but it can make a VSTi sound more realistic. I use it for all of my brass and woodwind sounds as well as many others. I was a trumpet player and the fingering is just like a trumpet so all you have to really learn is the octave rollers. I have no experience with Trumpet 3 but I do have and like the Screaming Trumpet: https://realitone.com/products/screaming-trumpetbut it needs the full Kontakt version; it will not work in the player. I hope this helps.
The bumper sticker said "I'm a veterinarian, therefore I can drive like an animal".
Suddenly I realized how many proctologists are on the road.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Joined: Dec 2014
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Thank you. That is very informative. Wayne Bergeron is one of my trumpet heroes, and not necessarily for the high notes. I'm not really a high note fan...more of a Chet Baker sound. Screaming Trumpet sounds amazing in the demos, but so does Trumpet 3. Looks like, for budgetary reasons, I should start with Trumpet 3 and the included player to get some kind of sound resembling a real trumpet in BIAB, and graduate to Kontakt 6, etc. as my budget and learning allow. Make sense or no?
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Not so quick. The webpage Pipeline linked to is from 2005. We regret to report that production of the MDT has been discontinued. webpage is the USA distributor, Patchman Music. Check out their page for used midi gear!
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Joined: Dec 2014
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Pipeline, OMG James Morrison, another of my trumpet heroes. Thanks so much. I will have to take some time to sit down and digest this info. This is great! I had no idea this stuff existed.
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Joined: Dec 2014
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Shucks. Thanks,Jim Fogle, I'll check it all out.
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Joined: Dec 2014
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Hold everything. Looks like if I buy Screaming Trumpet at the curremt sale price of 99 dollars I can get the Kontakt 6 as a crossgrade for 249. Anyone see a catch to this?
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Native Instruments just had their thanksgiving sale 50% off so I think at that price you are still doing good.
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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I ended up getting Kontakt via crossgrade and the 50% sale last summer. Having the full version of Kontakt opens a lot of options for you. Having a breath controller for The Trumpet is probably the best route, as you've played trumpet before. You can drive it with an expression pedal or a mod wheel, but I think you'll find the breath controller a lot more natural. You might also have a look at WIVI Band, which is in the same general price range. But I suspect that you'll like The Trumpet a lot better, based on what I've heard. But it's got a free trial, so you can get a feel for the instruments. The main advantage of the WIVI route is that it doesn't require the Kontakt player, but I don't think it's as realistic an instrument. I've had my eyes on the SWAM Saxophones myself... maybe next year I can justify the purchase. But the demos for The Trumpet sound sweet. 
-- David Cuny My virtual singer development blogVocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?BiaB 2025 | Windows 11 | Reaper | Way too many VSTis.
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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I have seen this before and I would love to get this but the price makes it impossible right now. {edit} oops never mind. It looks like a lot of people couldn't afford it either!
Last edited by MarioD; 12/06/18 05:05 AM.
The bumper sticker said "I'm a veterinarian, therefore I can drive like an animal".
Suddenly I realized how many proctologists are on the road.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 24,512
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David is right in that a wind controller is the way to go for a trumpet player or actually any wind instrument player. I tried the expression pedal, mod wheel as well as routing different sliders to emulate breath and they just didn't work all that well. They may for a keyboard player though.
One of the options of the full Kontakt is that you can take any patch and make it a wind controlled patch. Thus you are not limited to those companies that make wind controlled patches.
David I have the Swan Saxes and they are the most realistic saxes that I have found. I wish all wind instrument patches used the Swan interface. It is so easy to change attributes with it. Also you can change between various keyboard and wind controllers with a click or two.
The bumper sticker said "I'm a veterinarian, therefore I can drive like an animal".
Suddenly I realized how many proctologists are on the road.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
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Joined: Dec 2014
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So I'm downloading the WIVI trial right now. It looks like "Screaming Trumpet" requires Kontakt full version but does not require registration with Kontakt which is a requirement for the crossgrade. Soooo...looks like the best route is to buy "Trumpet 3" which does require registration with Kontakt and hope that it qualifies for the crossgrade. If it doesn't, at least I'll have a decent back end for BIAB midi trumpet. Any thoughts?
Clearly I have a lot of learning to do...can someone direct me to a good resource for MIDI, VSTs, Samplers, etc. I don't even have a good handle on the order I should approach this in. Thanks so much to all of you. This community is amazing! I have been on boards where noobs are simply ignored or trolled. Not here? Thanks again to all. Denver
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Assuming you're a decent keyboard player, I think you'll be best served by The Trumpet and a breath controller. Although you'll really need a breath controller to get the most out of both instruments, you've got other options. You can use the Modulation wheel to control the amplitude/timbre of The Trumpet and WIVI instruments. And if you want, you can go into the BiaB Piano Roll Editor and draw in the CC curves to manually create the dynamics. Heck, you can even do that with the GM trumpet patch you're currently using, and see if you can get better results that way. By the way, Embertone has their Chapman Trumpet, which is a sampled trumpet, so it won't have the dynamic timbre changes of The Trumpet 3. But it's got lovely sampled legato transitions - you need to practice to get used to the delay in moving from one note to the next, but it's a gorgeous sound. It requires Kontakt full, but it's only $30.
-- David Cuny My virtual singer development blogVocal control, you say. Never heard of it. Is that some kind of ProTools thing?BiaB 2025 | Windows 11 | Reaper | Way too many VSTis.
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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