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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 18
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OP
Enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 18 |
I love the concept of the BIAB VST plugin, but there seems to be a lot of trial and error to get it to work as shown in the PGM demo video. I've tried several different DAW apps (REAPER,SONAR, Studio One, etc) and I can't get any of them to play audio through the VST plugin (when previewing styles, playing from plugin after generating the files, etc). Not until I drag and drop the files from the plugin into the DAW app am I able to finally hear anything. There seems to be a disconnect between the BIAB VST plugin and the ASIO audio drivers. Normally, a VSTi plugin will just load and play through the DAW apps ASIO drivers. When I instaniate the BIAB plugin VSTi plugin into a DAW app, I can't get any sound from the plugin. To hear any generated files I need to first drag and drop them onto the DAW app timeline. In the PGM BIAB VSTi demo video it just seems to work automatically, but not in my experience. What is the secret to getting the audio to work from the DAW plugin without having to drag and drop the files into the DAW app first?
Thanks for any help in this matter.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 37
Enthusiast
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Enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 37 |
For right now, you can hit the play button in the vst and they will play but your DAW will not....so if you wanted to hear what your generated VST sounds like with your already recorded song on the DAW you have to drag and drop the tracks from the vst.
This is apparently being worked on from what I've read in other posts.
Marcus2323
Rizen 7 2700X, Radeon RX58700 XT Video,
Presonus Studio 192,
Republic of Gaming 8350-F Motherboard,
16Gbs of ram
Windows 10 Home
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 18
Enthusiast
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OP
Enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 18 |
Thanks for your post marcus, but after doing a deep dive into what the issue is I finally figured it out on my own. I wanted to post here in case anyone else has the same issue and does not needlessly spend hours trying to find an answer. It seems the BIAB VSTi is not a normal VSTi that uses the host apps audio properties (like the selected ASIO driver in most cases), it instead relies on the default Windows Audio app for audio output. Here is the kicker, the Windows app and the DAW app MUST be using the exact same sample rate or you will not hear any audio from within the BIAB VSTi. I typically use 44.1K in my DAW projects, but the Windows audio app defaults to 48K! Once I changed the 48K to 44.1K, the audio started playing back from the BIAB VSTi. Now it works in all of my DAW apps (REAPER, SONAR, Studio One) as each one uses ASIO @ 44.1K. I have been building my own computers and using various DAW apps for over twenty years, but that was a real head scratcher for sure. This important information is not made clear in the BIAB VSTi documentation or in the BIAB VSTi video provided from PG. So PG Music, please update your documentation and video with this important info, so your users are not left in the dark as to why the BIAB VSTi is not playing back audio and getting frustrated in the process. The BIAB VSTi relys on the Windows Audio app for playback (not the DAW apps ASIO drivers) and the sample rate MUST match the DAW apps project sample rate in order to be heard. This will solve a lot of customer angst and support calls/emails to PGM support. 
Last edited by Billy Buck; 12/08/18 07:52 AM.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 37
Enthusiast
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Enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 37 |
Thanks Billy Buck.....this the first time this has been said....I’ve read where pg is aware and working on a solution but this good news...for now anyway.
Cheers!
Marcus2323
Rizen 7 2700X, Radeon RX58700 XT Video,
Presonus Studio 192,
Republic of Gaming 8350-F Motherboard,
16Gbs of ram
Windows 10 Home
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 18
Enthusiast
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OP
Enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 18 |
Yes, you need to be mindful of matching sample rates when using the BIAB VSTi plugin in your DAW app. If I decide I want to do this next project @ 96K, I need to be sure that the Windows Audio app is at 96K as well or the BIAB VSTi plugin with not work correctly. Conversely, some multi-media apps and online content (that rely on the Windows Media Player) can sometimes change the sample rate, so the next time you use your DAW app the BIAB VSTi plugin will not work until you go back in and manually change the sample rate back to match your DAW project. PGM should further explain this in detail, in it's BIAB VSTi plugin documentation & video. This will help ensure a positive customer experience using the plugin. Now that it works as advertised, I must say I really like this BIAB VSTi plugin as it was the main reason I did the BIAB 2019 upgrade in the first place. 
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 550
Journeyman
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Journeyman
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 550 |
Does this really work as advertised ? or hoped for?
Can the VST send audio in real-time for each track in the BIAB arrangement to separate tracks in the DAW host? say for further processing?
( EQ , compression, reverb, mixing in the DAW )
I asked a PG Music tech support person about this and it was confirmed this is not what the VST does.
The previous post that mentions that the "VST" - which for sure deserves to be in scare-quotes relies on the default Windows Audio app for audio output of the generated tracks. This is correct. In essence there is no real-time pipeline of audio from the VST to the DAW via the VST API at all.
Nor is there a MIDI pipeline either ( for example so we could play MIDI super tracks thru a piano hosted in the DAW.
This release seems - if i were to put a positive optimistic spin on it - ( rather than calling it a disingenuous con ) seems to be releasing PART of a not-fully-completed project.
I suspect that EVENTUALLY we will get a VST ( and AU ) which supports sample-accurate MULTI-CHANNEL output of all separate tracks - and most likely - optimally the mixed stereo track. And the MIDI too if it exists.
The technical challenges with doing this are that the audio streams have to first be streamed in real-time from the BIAB App itself into the VST - from which the VST can then pipe the audio/midi to the DAW host via the VST or AU API.
If all the code in BIAB were put in the VST itself - rather than being in the old app then it wouldn't be so complicated streaming wise but this would involve a huge reworking of the code. So my guess is the VST will stay as a "CLIENT" of the BIAB app.
It would be pretty neat to have the entirety of BIAB as a plugin though. But better deferred to when ( hopefully ) some big pro-audio corporate with the cash to invest ( YAMAHA anyone ? ) can buy PG out and put in the investment required to give BIAB a much needed overhaul.
Imagine if BIAB and CUBASE worked seamlessly?
MacOS Sequoia, M4 Pro Mac Mini , 64GB RAM 512GB SSD ,
BIAB, Cubase, Ableton, Logic Pro, SCALER 3, GigLad, AnyTune, Synthesizer V Pro,Vienna Ensemble Pro, Audiofuse, Fractal FM3, KOMPLETE 15, StreamDeck, iReal Pro
White beard, beer belly, bald patch
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,876
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,876 |
Does this really work as advertised ? or hoped for? So far, it is certainly not what I had expected in a VST version of BIAB. Can the VST send audio in real-time for each track in the BIAB arrangement to separate tracks in the DAW host? say for further processing? My understanding is, No! It appears that all it is is a stripped-down implementation of the BIAB application that will appear inside your DAW as a VST to allow for dragging and dropping tracks into your DAW. Once they are dropped in your DAW they are just audio tracks with no connection to BIAB or the VST whatsoever. This release seems - if i were to put a positive optimistic spin on it - ( rather than calling it a disingenuous con ) seems to be releasing PART of a not-fully-completed project.
I suspect that EVENTUALLY we will get a VST ( and AU ) which supports sample-accurate MULTI-CHANNEL output of all separate tracks - and most likely - optimally the mixed stereo track. And the MIDI too if it exists. I wish we knew for sure if this is the case but they do not share their product roadmap (assuming they have one.) Some really promising features like UserTracks (and less-promising features like VideoTracks) have been introduced with a splash and subsequently received little or no further attention.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 49
Enthusiast
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Enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 49 |
I don't care about multi-outs from the plug, but I do want the "Master" pair from the plug output thru the DAW channel instead of an interface outside of the DAW.
Once I was to further process the tracks from the plug, I'll happily drag them out. Before then, I want to be able to control the output level right there with the tracks the plug audio is being auditioned with.
64 bit and the VST plug are the only things that compelled me to upgrade this year. 64 bit is the only "real" feature out of the two, AFAIC.
Win10Prox64/i7-6700@3.8G/32G / Studio One Pr 4.1.1
TASCAM US-16x08 / FaderPort / Fishman TriplePlay / Nektar LX61+
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,427
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,427 |
I can't even get the plugin to show up in CbB's browser. The VST scan shows it's been picked up and Plugin Utilities shows it sitting there in VST Instruments. But it's not available in the Browser to open into a project.  John
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 10,970
Veteran
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Veteran
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 10,970 |
Skyline,
What DAW are you using, what version is it and is the DAW 32 or 64 bit? The VST is 64 bit so it can not be used in a 32 bit based DAW.
I have two 32 bit DAWs, Cakewalk Music Creator 6 and Sonar Home Studio that are 32 bit. Neither will let me use the BiaB VST. However I also have a 64 bit DAW, Cakewalk by BandLab, that is able to use the VST.
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