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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I pretty much agree with what you said above! And I too have learned that, if you are going to point out BIAB problems, even if they are glaringly obvious and should never have been released that way, you always have to preface your comments with an affirmation that you love the product! And I do love the product! It is nothing short of incredibly amazingly awesome! For me the most frustrating thing about BIAB (other than the aforementioned problems) is how mute the company is about acknowledging the major issues and assuring us they will indeed be fixed. I am not one of the old-timers around here who bought BIAB when it was 1-bit and made from rocks and sand, but I have been here long enough to see features introduced and then never fixed or finished. And when PG himself asserts that everything is fine and everyone including himself is happy with how it works that seems like a direct admission that not much more is forthcoming other than basic stuff like getting it to actually work at its most basic level. But, like you, I have gone through the 5 stages of BIAB grief (well, I'm still working on that last one!) And I will just use the 32-bit BIAB 2019 and have a blast with those new RealTracks. Maybe they will fix 64-bit and VST and maybe they won't but either way I'll have fun with the 32-bit and RealTracks! There, I'm almost through step #5!
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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But, like you, I have gone through the 5 stages of BIAB grief (well, I'm still working on that last one!) And I will just use the 32-bit BIAB 2019 and have a blast with those new RealTracks. Maybe they will fix 64-bit and VST and maybe they won't but either way I'll have fun with the 32-bit and RealTracks! There, I'm almost through step #5! JJJ, you are well on your way to complete indoctrination. Just don't drink the cool-aid. 
BIAB – 2026, Reaper (current), i7-12700F Processor, 32GB DDR4-3200MHz RAM, Motu Audio Express 6x6 - My SoundCloud.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,876
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But, like you, I have gone through the 5 stages of BIAB grief (well, I'm still working on that last one!) And I will just use the 32-bit BIAB 2019 and have a blast with those new RealTracks. Maybe they will fix 64-bit and VST and maybe they won't but either way I'll have fun with the 32-bit and RealTracks! There, I'm almost through step #5! JJJ, you are well on your way to complete indoctrination. Just don't drink the cool-aid. Thanks Dan! But that kool-aid looks so refreshing...
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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This is a great thread! Good job Deacon. My "problem" or "endearing quirk" is when some here jump on me for making pretty much the same points you did and start calling me a fanboy, I'll jump back. They'll jump back and I'll jump some more until everybody is exhausted. They still think I'm a apologist fanboy. Fine, ok but like you I've pointed out and complained with the best of them over the years.
Wnen so many were pushing and pushing for 64 bit and a Biab VST I kept saying it's really not needed, accept it for what it is and I still believe that. What I never said but it's what I've thought all along is IF they ever did this it would be a total disaster because my "feeling" based on years of observation around here, is the company just doesn't have the staff who both understands the complexities of that and can implement it properly. And there's nothing wrong with that, what PG did and continues to do really well is creating and improving Biab in the first place. The VST is a whole new direction for them and it shows. I have full confidence they'll get it right but wow... I even mentioned Pro Tools several weeks ago and was told sure, no problem, it works with it just fine. Uhhhh, no.
Bob
Last edited by jazzmammal; 12/17/18 11:05 AM.
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Because of the end results BB RB is capable of with RT & RD I have stuck with it for the last 10 years, nagging and hassling PG to make how you get the end results easy. Just having the VST is a big advantage as this will bring in newer DAW only users that would not want to learn Biab, but even how the VST is now you can run it in a standalone mode and have a super simple version of Biab, though hopefully soon it will be fixed to run as a fully integrated VST/VSTi As I said before this is a Quantum Leap for PG and trying to get it all out there this year was a massive step, more beta time would of help but there was a deadline I suppose. Anyway they are working flat out to address all the issues and we will see the fixes soon. Well look at the bright side it gives you a bit of a change to all be beta testers for a while  The Mac user should be right when they get it as it's the Win user that have done the hard yards to find all the issues 
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2003
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Like Bob I am not an apologist fanboy. There are many things about BiaB that I would like changed and have said so. But I will come to PGMusic's defense when I think it is necessary. Here are a couple of things that really bug me:
1- It should be an easy fix. The only people that know if it is an easy fix are the programmers. The rest of us are just speculating. This includes things like the 255 bar limit, adding time signatures other then 2,3, or 4/4, file names etc. My take on these, right or wrong, is that BiaB is an 8 bit program that has band aid after band aid to make it 16, 32 and now 64 bit.
2-PGMusic put out a VSTi before it was ready. One can not expect PGMusic or the beta testers to have every combination of CPU, video card & drivers, audio interface/sound card or drivers, RAM combinations etc. It apparently worked their and on the beta testers systems to release. It doesn't work on mine and many other's systems but we still have the old method of using BiaB.
Virtually all of my songs start on BiaB and I am very grateful for that software. I wouldn't be playing and having so much fun learning new genres if it wasn't for BiaB.
Just my two cents. YMMV
I think my wife has started to show the first signs of dementia.
She said she can't remember what she ever saw in me!
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 1,173
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Some time back for a number of years I was employed by an ISP (Australia’s biggest at the time). We supplied services to businesses and to other ISPs. The number of times I’d get calls say “your system is broken” I cannot count. The number of times I would say you are one of only a few with the particular issue you have, so logic would tell me the issue is elsewhere not in my system. Something might not work for a small percentage does that mean the product is broken. I recall one chap very heated who said our product stinks, it worked fine until he changed his systems and now out product is broken and we need to fix it. I had the guy repeat what he said about 5 times he finally screamed at me. When I got him to say it slowly, he saw, he had made changes not the supplier. This sort of stuff we saw daily.
That is not to say there are no issues with PG products, clearly there are, but in the past few weeks I almost find the Forums depressing. The number of times we see people having issues that few others have or others have addressed and still going on about the issue being a bug is unreal.
At what point does a “work around” become a workflow or workflow naturally include a number of “work arounds”.
I agree with the need for a bug reporting Forum, but, will it just become a complaints area or an area to vent frustration. I also had a frustrating issue that got under my skin. Then along came Noel with the correct method for what I was doing and all was sorted. I had in fact broken BB worse by implement my solution before getting the answer to the correct way.
We each of us have a PC or Mac configured our way. There are many configurations therefore “bugs” can occur, but, are they bugs in the PG products or our systems. We have different ways of working and using the products therefore we may see different issues but is the issue the way we do things.
Sorry I feel this way but I think there has been a fair bit of unfair beat ups in the past few weeks. Let’s work together to fix or address issues. Looking for cause and effects fixes issues. Looking for blame only puts up shutters.
My vented views
Tony.
Last edited by Teunis; 12/17/18 01:09 PM.
HP i7-4770 16GB 1TB SSD, Win 10 Home,
Focusrite 2i2 3rd Gen, Launchkey 61, Maton CW80, Telecaster, Ovation Elite TX, Yamaha Pacifica 612
BB 2022(912) RB 2022(2), CakeWalk, Reaper 6, Audacity, Melodyne 5 Editor, Izotope Music Production Suite 4.1
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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I think as the years have rolled by I have spent a lot of time in this forum, as well as the old cakewalk forum. I have seen a lot of people unhappy due to what they deemed “broken software” and many times it was pilot or system error. I am not suggesting that all the complaints are also pilot error, but it is far more likely to be a system error than a program error. Still we know some of this is legitimate program issues. I hope they solve most of the VSTi issue here soon. But even if it is patched properly it will still be a problem for some. I am aware that my pc is not perfect and that some issues are mine. I think that most bugs will be worked out, some will linger and system oddities will persist. No software is perfect.
I just know for a fact this stuff is fun, let’s all remember that this is why we buy it to be entertained and creative. I hope all of you (all Y’all) here in the south have a ball creating cool stuff with this software and look forward to as many bugs getting exterminated as possible.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB/RB 2026, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 11 , Presonus Audiobox USB96
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 464
Journeyman
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Journeyman
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I agree with a lot in Deacon's post (including his love of Steely Dan). I've always wondered why PG Music releases the software with the bugs still in it. Maybe they can't test for them before the new release goes to users.
That said, it doesn't seem to matter much to the community because they keep buying the new releases as soon as they are available. And in spite of the problems, there seems to be a lot to like about the new version. I will be waiting a while though, even if I do have to pay full price.
Have fun, y'all.
2b
i5-3210 laptop. Win 10 Home. 2.5ghz, 64 bit. 6gb RAM. Focusrite Scarlet 2i2.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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For those people here suggesting that most of the complains are due to user error, have you checked this, this this, this, this, this this, this this, or this reports (just to name a few) in your systems? Would you say that all of them are are "pilot error" or rather legitimate issues that need to be fixed? Blaming the users for reporting obvious software bugs / issues / limitations / oddities / farts / whatever you want to call them without even bothering to check these reports is a long tradition here. I've seen this attitude many, many times, is still here, and, in my opinion, is part of the problem, becauses it transmits the idea that wrong is right, right is wrong, and that everybody here is happy with that. What we need instead is honesty, constructive criticism, more people reporting issues and PG Music fixing them!
Latest BIAB version, latest build.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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For those people here suggesting that most of the complains are due to user error, have you checked this, this this, this, this, this this, this this, or this reports (just to name a few) in your systems? Would you say that all of them are are "pilot error" or rather legitimate issues that need to be fixed? Blaming the users for reporting obvious software bugs / issues / limitations / oddities / farts / whatever you want to call them without even bothering to check these reports is a long tradition here. I've seen this attitude many, many times, is still here, and, in my opinion, is part of the problem, becauses it transmits the idea that wrong is right and that everybody here is happy with that. What we need instead is honesty, constructive criticism, more people reporting issues and PG Music fixing them! Well said!
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The office will be closed for Christmas Day, but we will be back on Boxing Day (Dec 26th) at 6:00am PST.
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