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Hi David,
If that's the case i come over, although I heard from all sources it's better being in Haarlem. Houses are very expensive, so nice if you own one (and I do).
And thinking about your and my music we get superrich. Now we only have Hiphop/rap, but are in desperate need of something more intellectual.
And we all speak some sort of English if you want. But for you Dutch won't be any problem. We have a former soccerplayer with your name. We like that!
But if you hesitate leaving Virginia because of the weather, I can tell you within some time climatechange makes the Netherlands have the ideal subtropic climate, while you all have a problem...
Let's make music!
Hans
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Her goal was to reach one thousand people that will purchase her album of the Micro Niche genre along with some other accessory such as a T-Shirt or Coffee Cup. The Album and souvenir will sell for $25.
Her goal is to sell 1000 of these units over the next year.
1,000 X $25 = $25,000 yearly income.
Did she have production costs, printing the CDs through a service or are they home computer burns? Are there CD sleeves with art work? How much does each mug and shirt cost to produce? The first 2 questions are variables, but home burned CDs vs CDBaby burned with artwork sounds kind of cheesy to me. And those mugs and shorts aren't $0 to her unless she also does ceramics and screen printing. Only point being that it isn't 1000 x $25. Reality is $25 less expenses. So it's likely more like 1000 X $13-$15. Wish her well with her dream though. With a Tshirt, mug, and CD.... after costs to produce them.... you end up with a net profit. That is taxable income and is subject to the income tax laws of the state and the nation... so.... 8% or so to the state out of the net.... 15% to 30% to the feds depending on your income tax bracket, and SS/MC at 15.2% if you are self employed which a musician would be considered to be self employed.... leaves you with a few dollars at best per unit..... and don't forget the postage if it's mailed..... and state sales taxes..... It's down right depressing.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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With a Tshirt, mug, and CD.... after costs to produce them.... you end up with a net profit. That is taxable income and is subject to the income tax laws of the state and the nation... so.... 8% or so to the state out of the net.... 15% to 30% to the feds depending on your income tax bracket, and SS/MC at 15.2% if you are self employed which a musician would be considered to be self employed.... leaves you with a few dollars at best per unit..... and don't forget the postage if it's mailed..... and state sales taxes.....
It's down right depressing. I'm not sure if you understand business. You are talking as though this person is an employee and has no tax advantages associate with owning a business. There are tons of tax incentives associated with owning a business. If you were to pay the way you outlined; you should not be in business; should learn more about it or hire someone with that skill set. "The reason more people don't swing for the fences is because they aren't on the field or even in the dugout. They are in the stands; or at home watching it on TV."
Last edited by HearToLearn; 03/18/19 04:34 AM.
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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<<< musician would be considered to be self employed >>>
Not necessarily. This is where a good knowledge of business is beneficial. It's never how many dollars you make, it's how many dollars you keep. The tax system favors those who know the multitude of ways engineered for the knowledgeable to keep the most possible of the money they garner from all the available methods to bring in income. One can become a millionaire walking dogs if they understand business and work toward the goal of earning a million dollars. So can the average musician. The product is irrelevant if one can figure out how to sell it. It can be a product or service. The relevant point is to retain received income and to generate multiple streams of income.
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We should band together and write a book, "How To Make Big Money In Music" by a bunch of guys in a forum who have never done it 
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We should band together and write a book, "How To Make Big Money In Music" by a bunch of guys in a forum who have never done it I don't think $20k a year for salary/income is "big money." I also think it is extremely achievable. Then again, you never see someone who says "it can't be done", do it.
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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We should band together and write a book, "How To Make Big Money In Music" by a bunch of guys in a forum who have never done it I don't think $20k a year for salary/income is "big money." I also think it is extremely achievable. Then again, you never see someone who says "it can't be done", do it. HTL: Man, on the 20K, I hear ya. By the way man, that 250K you let me borrow last week, can I pay you back in April? I just dropped 300K on my Amex black and that's due this week. Thanks man. Let's do that thing in Peru in May if you still can. Should be a nice weekend. J3, Man, brilliant as always. Only problem I see is there are 50 million people on You Tube already doing that. I get 100 emails a day. Can we find a new angle, something fresh? Hey, I have an idea. How to raise 6 billion in venture capital for a med tech company without actually having a product.* Should be fun. Just let me know man!!! *Maybe say we are doing blood tests or something???
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[quote=HearToLearn]
HTL:
Man, on the 20K, I hear ya. Well if the median household income is around $60k, I would say if you are at $20k isn't exactly being in the 1%. So, at 1/3, or even 2/3rds as a couple of median, I wouldn't exactly consider"big money." I'm not saying it's nothing or being snobby. I don't see anything wrong with people earning whatever they want. By the way man, that 250K you let me borrow last week, can I pay you back in April? I just dropped 300K on my Amex black and that's due this week. Thanks man. Let's do that thing in Peru in May if you still can. Should be a nice weekend. Peru? Drats! Lovey and I were jetting to the Poconos to purchase a village as a gift for an upcoming 1/2 year birthday party. Perhaps next year if I have a work day that year? As for the money, I had already forgotten about the $250k. The next time you steal one of our "Benjamins" toilet paper rolls please have the decency to ask Jeeves to replace it with one of the many from the supply room. Ta Ta for now.
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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you never see someone who says "it can't be done", do it. Same logic used by every conman since Methuselah!
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you never see someone who says "it can't be done", do it. Same logic used by every conman since Methuselah! You love your absolutes, which are not even true. If you said every con man breathed air, that would be true. But what you've stated is not truth. And I don't appreciate the ad hominem attack. Don't that again and I will report you. Well, I've made my living in the music industry for 25 years supporting a wife and 6 children. That's where my belief comes from. I know plenty of others who have as well. Not everyone, and not no one.
Last edited by HearToLearn; 03/18/19 05:31 PM.
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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you never see someone who says "it can't be done", do it. Same logic used by every conman since Methuselah! You love your absolutes, which are not even true. If you did every con man breathed air, that would be true. But what you've stated is not. Well, I've made my living in the music industry for 25 years supporting a wife and 6 children. That's where my belief comes from. I know plenty of others who have as well. Not everyone, and not no one. There are always plenty of exceptions to the rule BUT many times more than that on the other side of the equation! While there is truth in your platitude it is also true that such are often used to sell shovels. I cannot even remember how many "you can do it too"/Tony Robbins type of seminars I have attended and watched 99.9% of the people walk out momentarily motivated only to fail altogether shortly thereafter. Does it mean no one can achieve the promised results? Of course not! But this is probably one of the very worst times to consider a career in music so when someone says it is easy to earn a decent living I call BS!
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I don't think it's easy. Then again, I haven't seen many things that are.
Chad (Hope that makes it easier)
TEMPO TANTRUM: What a lead singer has when they can't stay in time.
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Also, with all of the email offers I receive certainly one of them must be a real Nigerian prince with $25 million to share, right? (Hint: the answer is NO!)
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I don't think it's easy. Then again, I haven't seen many things that are. I agree with you! I just wish there was a better way to quantify odds of success IRL with these things. Many years ago when I went to college you would sit with a counselor and try and match your interests, skills, potential, etc. with the projected job market. You could get an idea of how much you would need to invest in education and then how easy it would be to find a job in your chosen field. So nowadays a conversation like that might go, "If you wanna work in the medical field without a doctor-level degree then a Dental Hygienist is a growing field that pays a median yearly salary of $74,070." If you train in that field you are almost certain to score a job and reach that level of pay in a fairly short/predictable time. Maybe you are technical and find that a Web Developer median pay is $67,990; there are plenty of positions available. Or maybe you prefer a trade such as HVAC Technician with a median pay of $47,080 and these folks are always in demand. And so on. But when someone chooses music as a career nowadays I have to believe this path is fraught with risks quite similar to those of wannabe actors out in Hollywood waiting tables for years waiting for that big break. None of this means you shouldn't go for it if it is your dream and you are willing to put in the hard work. But it strikes me as sad not to prepare yourself for the odds before dedicating yourself to that path. BTW, I also do not buy lottery tickets!
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We should band together and write a book, "How To Make Big Money In Music" by a bunch of guys in a forum who have never done it Or consider "Never be so sure of what you want that you wouldn't take something better" Chris Voss. I'm in HearToLearn's corner on this one. In less than a minute I was able to come up with 5 names of people I know personally who self produced CD's/albums that sold in excess of 1,000 units in weeks not years. I will guess not another of the 27,000 plus forum members would have heard of more than one of these people; most forum members will not have heard of any of these folks and their music. JohnJohnJohn is right. Their dream may have started to be the next Rod Stewart, Bob Dylan or Blake Shelton. The bottom line is their dream was no impediment at all to their success in earning income from music. Dreams can stay in your head forever. Money goes into your pocket. JohnJohnJohn is right again. If you think playing a 4 hour gig for $65 is all there is to be made in music, that's all he'll find. There are plenty of businessmen/women who will gladly accept your skills and pay you that $65 salary and gross $2,500 dollars off your 4 hour event. I watched a DJ develop himself to the degree he had the confidence, skill and knowledge to charge $250 to shine a monogram on a wall at a wedding. To have 7 events on a weekend running consecutively each earning him in excess of $1,200 gross income all the while paying employees who were use to earning $300 to DJ an event, $350 to work his event.... To use his contacts, opportunity and sales acumen to book local bands into gigs paying them $3,500 when they had never earned $700 at a gig on their own. He didn't accomplish this because he thought of himself as a DJ but because he thought of DJ'ing as a business. I'll skip participating in JohnJohnJohn's book.
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You seem to be saying a music career is easy to do if you only do the right things and buy the right shovels from the genius stay-at-home-mom. Of course it is possible to make a living in music but it is NOT easy or even likely for the vast majority of people! To suggest otherwise is just silly!
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I'm not exactly sure if this has anything to do with the conversation about making a living with music but Roger Miller had an humorous take about "star power" with his song, +++ Kansas City Star +++.
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You seem to be saying a music career is easy to do if you only do the right things and buy the right shovels from the genius stay-at-home-mom. Of course it is possible to make a living in music but it is NOT easy or even likely for the vast majority of people! To suggest otherwise is just silly! For the sake of silliness, let's re-visit "Never be so sure of what you want that you wouldn't take something better" Chris Voss. If I'm to guess, I'm speculating you think a music career is mainly performing. That not everyone can write a song, record a record, brand their self, market their material and so on. You're thinking you have to be discovered by some big record executive or win American Idol. If that's the case, you're confusing fame and fortune with making a living in music. Here's a "Never be so sure of what you want that you wouldn't take something better" scenario for you. There are likely many forum members who fit into this profile. Music is their hobby and over the years they've created a nice home studio, collected various instruments and equipment. Repurposed their garage for a 'home studio' and in short have $10,000 total invested in their hobby of music. A nice mixer, several amps, two Mackie subs, two tops, 6-8 dynamic mics and a 24 channel snake they got from their church when the Sanctuary was updated to digital three years ago. They have everything they need to set up a five piece band. They can't find reliable players and no club wants to pay any 'real' money to bands anymore. That's your world of music... What you want is to perform playing music. What might be better? Your real job is working for a prominent fortune 500 company. You're at work and on break several of your co-workers are discussing the upcoming annual spring employee and family appreciation picnic day. Because you know it's hard to make it in a music career, and even more unlikely for someone like you, it never occurs to you to ask what the sound budget is for the day and to offer your services and equipment for the job. Later you learn the budget was $1,200. You've missed a great opportunity and excellent chance at repeat business. The same thing could happen at your children's school play, awards ceremony, athletic events. Same thing at the town festival, church festivals, Uncle Bob's and Aunt Mary's 50th anniversary. Most of these types of events are too small and won't have the budget or need for a professional sound crew and equipment and don't want to pay $700 or more for a DJ but would gladly pay you $350 for a two hour gig rather than pulling that 6 channel peavey mixer head and those old stereo speakers from the conference room and Ms. Betty from the kitchen crew to serve as MC. Corporate gigs can easily pull in over a thousand dollars for a half day and it's very likely you have better gear and skills than the Marriott offers in their conference room. And another: Maybe cousin Larry talks you into going to hear a hot new Gospel group. While there, it's not your favorite type of music but you're impressed with the group's talent. Everything is tight but the whole performance it doesn't seem they every really get their sound dialed in. You tell yourself and cuz Larry you've got better equipment than they do and you certainly could improve their sound with what little you know about running sound. You mingle with the folks and group after the performance and during small talk learn they do over 100 shows a year - making their living performing. It never occurs to you to offer your services and equipment and become their sound engineer and pick up a gig of 100 shows. Making a living in music is not hard. It is easy if you know what opportunities exist, where they are and have a willingness to work. You may think $350 is silly and beneath your musical talent but not me. There are literally dozens of different ways to 'make a living' with music. Consider maybe part time teaching 40 students 30 minute lessons a week at $20 is $800 gross per week for 20 hours work... Offer a BIAB generated practice CD for $10 per student for an additional $400 and $1,200 per week career in music... I know, that sounds nearly impossible for an average person to do, silly me.
Last edited by Charlie Fogle; 03/19/19 12:36 PM.
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Well, we'll just have to agree to disagree! All of your examples are anecdotal and not based on actual overall market conditions one should assess before embarking on a career choice. Yes, I'm sure there are music biz opportunities out there but your odds of finding something steady that will consistently deliver a decent living are worse than ever before.
I understand there are even whole communities where a fellow can still make a living building horse-drawn buggies. He might need to convert to being Amish but it is possible! Now to be clear, those opportunities are far and few between. Mainly because society has mostly moved beyond horse-drawn buggies!
Last edited by JohnJohnJohn; 03/19/19 01:20 PM.
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The 2025 49-PAK is loaded with other great new add-ons as well. Learn more about the 2025 49-PAK!
Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Mac!
With your version 2025 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons FREE! Or upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
- The 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 33 new RealTracks and 65+ new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 29 new RealTracks and 45+ new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 20 new RealStyles.
- Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana
- Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano
- Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7
- Playable RealTracks Set 4
- RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark
- SynthMaster Sounds and Styles (with audio demos)
- 128 GM MIDI Patch Audio Demos.
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyles,
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster,
- Instrumental Studies Set 23: More '80s Hard Rock Soloing,
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster
- Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8
- RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®!
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Mac!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Mac!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
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