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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2011
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OP
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I run into an occasional problem where I disagree with the way BiaB voices a chord. Like when I specify a D9 for example, and BiaB insists on "jazzing things up" and playing a D#9 instead. Well, I learned how to reel it in from doing that (Song Settings/Force Song to Simple Arrangement). Right now I'm having an issue with the way BiaB insists on playing sus2 chords, e.g., just plain 2 chords, according to BiaB's text terminology. I tried forcing it to simple arrangements with the sus2 chords, but it didn't work.
According to the music theory I recall, a suspended 2nd chord has no third. It's just the root, the 2nd and the 5th, at its simplest. But there should be no 3rd. Yet, when I type 2 chords into the BiaB text page, and play them back, they sound funny. So I go check the voicing, typically on the keyboards, and, sure enough, BiaB is sticking a 3rd in there. A D2, for example, will have a D,E,F#,A, or inversions thereof. So, not only is this incorrect chord voicing, it destroys the mood I'm trying to convey through the use of sus2 chords.
Quoting Wikipedia: "A suspended chord (or sus chord) is a musical chord in which the (major or minor) third is omitted, replaced usually with either a perfect fourth or a major second."
It is annoyingly difficult to edit, say, the keyboard track to get rid of the 3rds because you can only edit Melody and Solo tracks. So one must copy the kb track over to the solo track, edit it and then copy it back to the kb track. This is a tremendous amount of bother. It would be so much nicer to tell BiaB to play chords correctly. It would be even nicer if I didn't have to tell BiaB to do things correctly.
So what I want to know is, is there some sort of global edit function, where I can get inside BiaB's head, if you will, and tell it NOT to include 3rds in 2 chords? I tried the Chord Builder, and it's no good for this cuz you can't specify the exact components of a chord like this one.
If there isn't a global way to change BiaB's penchant for voicing, then I'm requesting to the PG Staff that they correct their mistaken voicing of sus2 chords. Sus4 chords get spelled correctly, so it's only fitting that sus2 chords get spelled correctly also.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 457
Journeyman
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OP
Journeyman
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 457 |
A brief follow-up. I sent an email to the support staff regarding this, reporting the way BiaB includes a major 3rd with a sus2 chord as a flaw that should be corrected. I'm curious about the response I will get.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Oct 2008
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Hi Michael,
BIAB does not offer and easy way around voicing chords.
With MIDI, it's possible to manually alter chords on any track using Piano Roll or Notation Mode and then to have those changes remain in place by freezing that track.
With Realtracks, however, the only way that I can think of to effect such a change is to create a Performance Wav for a particular track and then edit that wav in a pitch-shifting program such as Melodyne. (Performance Wav is a rendered audio file that linked to a particular track.)
From BIAB's perspective, X2 and Xadd9 are treated the same. This means that D2 will sometimes give Dsus2 (D E A) and sometimes Dadd9 (D F# A E).
If a user is using a mix of Realtracks and MIDI tracks, one solution for suspended seconds is to add the suspension in the MIDI voices by manually editing and freezing the tracks and with the Realtracks to use X5 chords (e.g. D5). The X5 chords are often called 'power chords' and they consist of only the root and the 5th (thus D5 = D A -- no F#) and thus will play comfortably against the MIDI chords with suspensions.
Regards,
Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2026
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 457
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OP
Journeyman
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 457 |
With MIDI, it's possible to manually alter chords on any track using Piano Roll or Notation Mode and then to have those changes remain in place by freezing that track.
Yeah, that's another way to do it, but it's still a pita. From BIAB's perspective, X2 and Xadd9 are treated the same. This means that D2 will sometimes give Dsus2 (D E A) and sometimes Dadd9 (D F# A E). Well, I submit then that BiaB is creating this confusion. If BiaB would allow one to spell a Dsus2 chord in the chord edit window (and have the chord spelled properly on the staff) instead of insisting on truncating it to a D2, this could be avoided. And your "Dadd9" -- I tried spelling that in BiaB just now to see what would happen, and guess what? BiaB changed Dadd9 to Dadd2. Okay, so I went ahead and plugged Dadd2 into a couple places to see how it was spelled on the staff. No joy. D2 and Dadd2 are the same spellings. Which annoys me even more. There are two ways to spell a "Dadd9" but no correct ways to spell a Dsus2. If BiaB is going to truncate Dsus2 to D2, then it should jolly well spell it as a Dsus2 on the staff. If a user is using a mix of Realtracks and MIDI tracks, one solution for suspended seconds is to add the suspension in the MIDI voices by manually editing and freezing the tracks and with the Realtracks to use X5 chords (e.g. D5). The X5 chords are often called 'power chords' and they consist of only the root and the 5th (thus D5 = D A -- no F#) and thus will play comfortably against the MIDI chords with suspensions. Yeah as a guitarist from way back, I'm familiar with power chords. Same difference in terms of work to get things to work, though. I suppose, once I've edited a portion of a track, I could do copy and paste to complete it. That would minimize the tedium.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 20,633
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Michael,
One thing that I forgot to mention above is that there is a musical relationship between 'sus2' and 'sus4' chords that you can use to your advantage.
Csus4 (or Csus, as it's often reduced to) = C F G
Now if I rearrange those notes to.... F G C (I have the notes of an Fsus2 chord)
Thus, to get an Fsus2, it's worth trying Csus4/F
That is, in theory, any sus2 chord can be obtained by using a Xsus4/Y where...
X = suspended 4th chord a perfect 5th above the required suspended 2nd chord
Y = the root note of the suspended 2nd chord
For your example of a Dsus2, using the above approach, try Asus/D. It may or may not work for the musical texture you need.
Regards,
Noel
P.S. I'll put this over in "Tips and Tricks" as it's a problem that arises a few times throughout the year.
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2026
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 457
Journeyman
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OP
Journeyman
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 457 |
Hey Noel, now that's the kind of thinking I can appreciate. I wonder how long it would have taken me to figure out the relationship between those two chords. Maybe never, yet now that you point it out, it's so obvious.
Well, this is a workaround I can live with and I'll give it a try tomorrow. I've retired for the evening and am posting this note on my laptop. My only concern is that with some styles the /X (specified chord element in the bass) can be somewhat de-emphasized. But I'll definitely give it a go. Still, though, I hope that this error in chord theory is something PGM will address in an upcoming build.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2003
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The bottom line is that X2 (Xsus) and Xadd9 are two different chords and should be handled as such.
Life is short so make sure you spend as much time as possible on the Internet arguing with strangers.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 457
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OP
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Joined: Dec 2011
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