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As another forum member, Noel96, reminds us to run BIAB, 32 and 64 bit, in Administrator mode to help with saving songs another thing that I've noticed is that with each new update to 2019 my Admin settings revert back to the normal non-admin mode. I have to reset both programs to "run as administrator" with each new update.
Anyone else notice this?
Jeff
Last edited by MountainSide; 01/11/19 07:21 AM. Reason: renamed title to correct issue
Win11, Intel i7 7700K 4.2Ghz, 32Gb RAM, 2x1Tb HD, 500Gb NVMe, BIAB/RB 2026, MOTU 828MK3 audio, MOTU Midi Express, Yamaha Montage 7, DX7II, TX802, Motif XS Rack, Roland Fantom XR Rack, Oberheim Matrix 1000, VoiceLive3 Extreme, Kontakt 6, SampleTank 4.3
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Jeff so far I am not having any problems saving songs in either 32 or 64 bit . Have not checked the run as admin but will do so.
On a side note I just worked on a house up on lake a Keowee yesterday, it was in the reserve. Nice area. Long drive back though 2 hours.
HP Win 11 12 gig ram, Mac mini Sonoma with 16 gig of ram, BiaB/RB 2026, Reaper 7, Harrison Mixbus 11 , Presonus Audiobox USB96
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Hi Jeff,
Do you set the BBW.EXE and BBW64.EXE to 'run as administrator'? If so, when an update is loaded, these files are replaced -- I wonder if this explains losing this setting.
I set the 'run as admin' mode on the startup shortcuts for the program. In addition, I'm sometimes asked during installation (not usually the updates) whether or not I want to install shortcuts... I de-select those options if they appear because I already have shortcuts and I don't want those over-written (and thus lose my settings).
Hopefully something in the above might help you solve the annoyance you're experiencing.
All the best,
Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2026
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I think you just hit on the solution Noel. When I do the updates, I let the program generate new shortcuts and I use those and delete the old shortcuts. That must be the problem, the new shortcuts do not contain the "run as admin" option and so when I click on those, I lose the "save" function.
Good detective work there Noel!
Jeff
Win11, Intel i7 7700K 4.2Ghz, 32Gb RAM, 2x1Tb HD, 500Gb NVMe, BIAB/RB 2026, MOTU 828MK3 audio, MOTU Midi Express, Yamaha Montage 7, DX7II, TX802, Motif XS Rack, Roland Fantom XR Rack, Oberheim Matrix 1000, VoiceLive3 Extreme, Kontakt 6, SampleTank 4.3
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I guess the next update will be the test! Fingers crossed 
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2026
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I take all of this back Noel, there does seem to be a problem with the 611 update remembering patches selected on the THRU channel. Prior to the 611 update, BIAB, both 32 bit and 64 bit, would remember my selected external patches on both the Melody and the Thru tracks. Since the 611 update, the Melody is remembered but the Thru track is not.
I've double checked the "Run as Admin" functions on both the icons and the EXE..no issues there. I've "Return to Factory Settings" including MIDI drivers and Patch Maps, reinstalled my INI (patch map) files. Reinitialized my external synth, re-established all synth internal parameters and MIDI flows and verified it works in Cakewalk and Reaper.
Re-saved each of my songs with the correct Thru patch but it "forgets" them each time.
Oddly enough, everything works fine in RB.
This was not an issue until the 611 update.
Jeff
Last edited by MountainSide; 01/10/19 08:33 AM.
Win11, Intel i7 7700K 4.2Ghz, 32Gb RAM, 2x1Tb HD, 500Gb NVMe, BIAB/RB 2026, MOTU 828MK3 audio, MOTU Midi Express, Yamaha Montage 7, DX7II, TX802, Motif XS Rack, Roland Fantom XR Rack, Oberheim Matrix 1000, VoiceLive3 Extreme, Kontakt 6, SampleTank 4.3
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Interesting! Jeff, why not change back to the 610 update. All you need to do is download from the link below and install it. This will step BIAB back to the previous build. https://www.pgmusic.com/support_windowsupdates.htmRegards, Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2026
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Have continued to look into Noel. Strangely the 32 bit 2019 BIAB does not remember the midi thru patches but RB does. This did not come up until update 611.
In addition to the steps taken in my previous posting, I have opened previous working 32 bit song files and have re-assigned and saved patches in those songs. Upon opening those songs later the patches are not remembered. I've also duplicated this approach in the 64 bit version....same results.
By the way, in neither of these cases am I using the VSTi, the DAW plug-in nor any drag and drop, its just a plain assignment of external patches of my .PAT file to the midi through channel 5 section in the mixer.
So the 611 upgrade is effecting both the 32 bit and 64 bit programs in the same way.
As Noel suggested, I'll have to now drop back to BIAB update 610. Otherwise, BIAB has become unworkable for me.
Jeff
Last edited by MountainSide; 01/10/19 02:00 PM.
Win11, Intel i7 7700K 4.2Ghz, 32Gb RAM, 2x1Tb HD, 500Gb NVMe, BIAB/RB 2026, MOTU 828MK3 audio, MOTU Midi Express, Yamaha Montage 7, DX7II, TX802, Motif XS Rack, Roland Fantom XR Rack, Oberheim Matrix 1000, VoiceLive3 Extreme, Kontakt 6, SampleTank 4.3
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Noel, I'm going down a deep, dark hole! I've re-installed update 610. No difference on either the 32 bit nor the 64 bit BIAB program. Patches are not remembered from one song to the next. I've tested dozens of songs that until several days ago played perfectly.
Whats even worse, is that I again returned all drivers, and program settings to "factory settings' and reloaded my .PAT file again. No change.
To make matters even worse, even if I manually put in the correct patch, play the song to insure its the correct patch and then hit "save"..it shows the right patch. But when I hit play it reverts back to another completely different patch on my synth.
Just to check my own sanity, I re-initialized my external synth, my midi patch bay and my audio interface thinking there could be something amiss there....nope its all in BIAB. And whatever it did, update 610 will not correct it. Keep in mind, RB doesn't exhibit any of this behavior. It remembers dozens of patches on dozens of tracks on dozens of song.
So there you go...I'm playing songs from the Great American Song Book with lead parts being played by a grizzly analog synth patch. Tell me it ain't so !
Jeff
Last edited by MountainSide; 01/10/19 01:58 PM.
Win11, Intel i7 7700K 4.2Ghz, 32Gb RAM, 2x1Tb HD, 500Gb NVMe, BIAB/RB 2026, MOTU 828MK3 audio, MOTU Midi Express, Yamaha Montage 7, DX7II, TX802, Motif XS Rack, Roland Fantom XR Rack, Oberheim Matrix 1000, VoiceLive3 Extreme, Kontakt 6, SampleTank 4.3
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Jeff,
The ultimate "Return to factory settings" is to delete the files INTRFACE.BBW and MYSETUP.DK -- these are found in \bb\Preferences. I usually rename them by adding .old to the name.
These files that contain user settings and when BIAB can no longer see them, the program is forced to create new ones. You will need to set up your MIDI and Audio again after doing this.
The process for doing this is... close all instances of BIAB, go to \bb\preferences, delete the files, restart BIAB.
At some point, it's probably a good idea to fully shut down your computer and restart it, too. That's the best way for clearing out memory left-overs.
Regards,
Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2026
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Noel thanks for your continued help and support. I deleted the files INTRFACE.BBW and MYSETUP.DK by adding old to the file name as you suggested. Shutdown the computer for 5 minutes and restarted with BIAB 2019 32 bit. No change, the program does not remember the correct patches.
But I have a much better understanding of the problem now. Keep in mind, I rolled back to update 610 but I don't think that's the problem or the solution. The problem is in how 2019 is handling the higher banks in the .PAT file.
As us MIDI users are aware, the program uses three bits of info to use the higher banks: the patch number, the MSB bank number and the LSB bank number. The problem is in the LSB bank number....its off by one digit! In other words, when 83.63.4 is saved, it actually saves 83.63.3
I thought at first this my be the old Roland - Yamaha 1-based patch numbering issue (which can be temporarily changed in BIAB or permanently changed in the .PAT file. Nope, makes no difference as the 1-based issue effects the first number not the MSB or LSB.
Then I though my .PAT could be corrupt. So I recreated those new from my Cakewalk .INI files and actually downloaded new .INI files just to be sure mine weren't bad. Loaded the new .PAT file, no change. Compared to my original .PAT file, no difference...a mirror image of one another.
When I select the correct patch that I want to use for a song on the THRU channel or the melody channel they play correctly at that time, its only when they are saved and later pulled up do I see the LSB difference.
So I'm at a complete loss now...any ideas?
Last edited by MountainSide; 01/11/19 07:14 AM. Reason: chnaged LSB to correct number
Win11, Intel i7 7700K 4.2Ghz, 32Gb RAM, 2x1Tb HD, 500Gb NVMe, BIAB/RB 2026, MOTU 828MK3 audio, MOTU Midi Express, Yamaha Montage 7, DX7II, TX802, Motif XS Rack, Roland Fantom XR Rack, Oberheim Matrix 1000, VoiceLive3 Extreme, Kontakt 6, SampleTank 4.3
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A further update to this issue. The melody track saves fine, it only the Thru track that is not saving the correct MSB / LSB info. And its always the same, it saves an LSB value one digit lower that the correct number.
I hope PG is seeing this. Has any of our beta testers seen issues like this?
Jeff
Win11, Intel i7 7700K 4.2Ghz, 32Gb RAM, 2x1Tb HD, 500Gb NVMe, BIAB/RB 2026, MOTU 828MK3 audio, MOTU Midi Express, Yamaha Montage 7, DX7II, TX802, Motif XS Rack, Roland Fantom XR Rack, Oberheim Matrix 1000, VoiceLive3 Extreme, Kontakt 6, SampleTank 4.3
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Hi Jeff,
I've passed a link to this thread on to the developers. You've put a lot of effort into this and have uncovered some important information.
I haven't seen any issue like this with the Thru channel.
If I have any more ideas, I'll pass them on but, at the moment, it looks like there is something that's just not doing the job correctly.
I'm sorry that my suggestions haven't helped. That standard procedures that work most of the time.
Regards,
Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2026
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By default Thru track settings do not save in song files. You can change the setting here:
1. go to File > Save Special > Save Song with Patches & Harmony
2. check Save/Load Thru Settings with songs
3. click [Close]
With factory settings, Save/Load Thru Settings with songs is disabled.
Blake
PG Music Inc.
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Thanks, Blake. That's handy to know.
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2026
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I didn't realize that, either.
BIAB 2026 Win Audiophile. Software: Fender Studio One 8, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Fender Quantom HD8 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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I learn something new about BiaB everyday.
OK, a random thought;
Why does toilet paper need a commercial? Who's not buying it?
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Hi Yes indeed good catch I found that out a while back. Another thing to consider re one number lower . This will happen if the synth is Yamaha as they count the patches from 1 not Zero based as normal midi, Biab takes care of this and deduct one from the patch number so say for Choir ahh Yamaha patch (voice) 53 you get 52 the normal midi patch number for Choir ahh, this way you still hear the intended voice. Such thing are done in Pat files in Biab and ini files in Cakewalk and instrument scripts in Cubase, Just a thought sorry if you all ready know this. Mike See below for extract from Yamaha ins def, for Cakewalk [XG lite Bank 0] 0=1 Grand Piano 1=2 Bright Piano 2=3 Electric Grand Piano 3=4 Honky-tonk Piano 4=5 Electric Piano 1 5=6 Electric Piano 2 6=7 Harpsichord 7=8 Clavi 8=9 Celesta 9=10 Glockenspiel 10=11 Music Box 11=12 Vibraphone 12=13 Marimba 13=14 Xylophone 14=15 Tubular Bells 15=16 Dulcimer 16=17 Drawbar Organ 17=18 Percussive Organ 18=19 Rock Organ 19=20 Church Organ 20=21 Reed Organ 21=22 Accordion 22=23 Harmonica 23=24 Tango Accordion 24=25 Nylon Guitar 25=26 Steel Guitar 26=27 Jazz Guitar 27=28 Clean Guitar 28=29 Muted Guitar 29=30 Overdriven Guitar 30=31 Distortion Guitar 31=32 Guitar Harmonics 32=33 Acoustic Bass 33=34 Finger Bass 34=35 Pick Bass 35=36 Fretless Bass 36=37 Slap Bass 1 37=38 Slap Bass 2 38=39 Synth Bass 1 39=40 Synth Bass 2 40=41 Violin 41=42 Viola 42=43 Cello 43=44 Contrabass 44=45 Tremolo Strings 45=46 Pizzicato Strings 46=47 Orchestral Harp 47=48 Timpani 48=49 Strings 1 49=50 Strings 2 50=51 Synth Strings 1 51=52 Synth Strings 2 52=53 Choir Aahs 53=54 Voice Oohs 54=55 Synth Voice 55=56 Orchestra Hit 56=57 Trumpet 57=58 Trombone 58=59 Tuba 59=60 Muted Trumpet 60=61 French Horn 61=62 Brass Section 62=63 Synth Brass 1 63=64 Synth Brass 2 64=65 Soprano Sax 65=66 Alto Sax 66=67 Tenor Sax 67=68 Baritone Sax 68=69 Oboe 69=70 English Horn 70=71 Bassoon 71=72 Clarinet 72=73 Piccolo 73=74 Flute 74=75 Recorder 75=76 Pan Flute 76=77 Blown Bottle 77=78 Shakuhachi 78=79 Whistle 79=80 Ocarina 80=81 Square Lead 81=82 Sawtooth Lead 82=83 Calliope Lead 83=84 Chiff Lead 84=85 Charang Lead 85=86 Voice Lead 86=87 Fifths Lead 87=88 Bass & Lead 88=89 New Age Pad 89=90 Warm Pad 90=91 Poly Synth Pad 91=92 Choir Pad 92=93 Bowed Pad 93=94 Metallic Pad 94=95 Halo Pad 95=96 Sweep Pad 96=97 Rain 97=98 Sound Track 98=99 Crystal 99=100 Atmosphere 100=101 Brightness 101=102 Goblins 102=103 Echoes 103=104 Sci-Fi 104=105 Sitar 105=106 Banjo 106=107 Shamisen 107=108 Koto 108=109 Kalimba 109=110 Bagpipe 110=111 Fiddle 111=112 Shanai 112=113 Tinkle Bell 113=114 Agogo 114=115 Steel Drums 115=116 Woodblock 116=117 Taiko Drum 117=118 Melodic Tom 118=119 Synth Drum 119=120 Reverse Cymbal 120=121 Fret Noise 121=122 Breath Noise 122=123 Seashore 123=124 Bird Tweet 124=125 Telephone Ring 125=126 Helicopter 126=127 Applause 127=128 Gunshot
Last edited by Mike Head; 01/11/19 12:03 PM.
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Wow Blake, you solved the problem! Good job! Your solution was much easier than the LSB / MSB rathole I was chasing down. I was looking at .INI file modifications with Zerobased patch mapping.
You guys really know this software despite the hundreds, maybe thousands, of configurations that us Users have with our software, synth and VSTi collections.
My sincere appreciation and thank you,
Jeff
Win11, Intel i7 7700K 4.2Ghz, 32Gb RAM, 2x1Tb HD, 500Gb NVMe, BIAB/RB 2026, MOTU 828MK3 audio, MOTU Midi Express, Yamaha Montage 7, DX7II, TX802, Motif XS Rack, Roland Fantom XR Rack, Oberheim Matrix 1000, VoiceLive3 Extreme, Kontakt 6, SampleTank 4.3
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