I am trying to merry midi files from arranger software to BIAB. This is what happens. I can open midi file, BIAB accepts it. Chords are recognized and I can hear that midi file. Only one mixer channel is active. I forgot what it is called when all midi channels go to one track...but the question is about realtracks. When I select a realtrack, on lets assume piano track, it would not play/follow chords. Maybe biab is not designed to do this? Or what should I look at to get this resolved. Main idea is to use immported chords and some of midi arrangement tracks from opened midi file and some of realtracks.
Because BIAB is backing software and not a DAW, when a MIDI file is loaded into the program, it can only be loaded as a multitrack MIDI file on either the Melody track or the Soloist track. The individual MIDI channels are still present in the file. The other five BIAB tracks are reserved by BIAB for creation of a backing.
What BIAB does after loading a MIDI is to deactivate the style that's loaded. You'll see X at the beginning of the name of the style in BIAB's style window. That indicates a disabled style.
To get the style enabled, right-click on the style's name and select "Style is enabled".
Noel, Thank you! Yes, I thought that X in style looked weird
I enabled the style, but I can not get tracks of BIAB (RT/RD) sync to MIDI file.
Maybe somebody would be kind enough to guide me into workflow I am aiming at or suggest something more logical...
This is scenario: I have a software arranger that can save a complete song (arrangement) with chords. That midi file and chords are recognized by BIAB. My idea is to substitute or add Real tracks to that arrangement, so they are synced to timeline, working with bar changes to get everything glued (if for example there is a break, hold or similar) Then I would export WAVs to DAW and mix them there. Naturally, it seems like a good idea to do everything in DAW, chopping everything like Japanese sushi chief, but I would like to have the luxury of auditioning various styles, tracks before settling, so I can hear how it will sound closer to final thing (with all Midi+real tracks), rather then just exporting tracks blindly to DAW. I hope that makes sense.
I would appreciate very much, if somebody can guide me with this.
Actually, I suspect the specific chords in your file are not actually recognized by BIAB, but instead, BIAB is using it's MIDI chord wizard to figure them out again (which sometimes is not always correct). Unless you are bringing it in as XML, there is no MIDI "chord" command to say "this is a chord".
If you are not syncing, what MIDI sound source are you using? Is the song tempo and time signature properly set in the MIDI file you are bringing in? Is the sync off just from the resultant file from your arranger software (you didn't say which one you use), or from any MIDI file you import?
More information may let us better help you out.
John
Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 12TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 12TB SATA
To follow on from John's post, when you say 'sync', what exactly are you meaning?
Does the midi file continuous play, for example, 2 beats ahead (or behind) of the backing? Does the midi play at a fast tempo than the backing? Does the midi play slower than the backing in some sections and faster in other sections? (etc.)
As John says, a little more detail would help greatly.
John, Noel Thank you for helping in trying to resolve this. Charlie, thank you (Lets assume chords are correct, just want to get Real Drums to be in sync for starts )
Long story about my little tech quest: Before I started using BIAB, I mainly used a program called vArranger (virtual arranger) to make "bones" for backing tracks for my songs. That program is a midi based program which is similar in a way to hardware arrangers (Yamaha Tyros, etc.) As with most of hardware arrangers it uses midi styles. Like most of styles written for arrangers it has sections for Intros, Breaks, Main Parts, Endings. Program has chord chart that you enter your chords in and position of your breaks, etc. After you arrangement is complete, you can either output it as audio or midi file. Unfortunately, taking the easy way out by exporting audio files did not work well, because internally to the varranger program it is not bound by specific "clock" (does not have Midi Sync in) so using audio files from it with files from BIAB was a pain in the butt.
I decided to take a different approach, and perhaps a more creative one. My idea was to use arrangement midi file from vArranger in BIAB as a reference to try different things, to see what works and what does not as far as using RT/RD with that arrangement. To my understanding, Midi file, unlike audio would sync to the program internal clock, in this case BIAB.
What I know so far: Original midi file is 86BPM and BIAB opens it as 86BPM. Midi file plays (more or less) as it should in BIAB. I am using Halion Sonic GM mode. It starts correctly from the first bar. Now, if I introduce Real Drum track from bar #1 it would not be in sync.
Most likely it has to do with those midi files from vArranger. I downloaded a generic midi song file from internet and in BIAB was able to add Real Tracks and they were in sync.
More....When I opened midi file from Varranger in DAW, the starting position was something ridiculous 9.xxx seconds into the timeline. When I manually matched exported BIAB exported Real Drum track, everything was in sync.
What got me confused is the "starting" position of the vArranger midi track and it might be that is where the problem lies. Again, in BIAB it starts to play "from the start". In Daw after 9 seconds...
I hope you guys did not fall asleep reading this and maybe can suggest something to get things in sync. If somebody is brave enough, here is BIAB MGX file with that midi test file from arranger loaded: MGX /google drive
I do not want you to have this "puzzle" as your "birthday gift" Please enjoy your dinner and evening without extra homework, this is not urgent at all.
One thing I've figured out is you need to set the RealTracks to double time in this instance.
As the midi song presently plays the RealTracks are playing at half speed as measured against the sound generated by the midi tracks. I'm thinking Band-in-a-Box and vArranger are counting tempo differently.
Right click on one of the RealTracks > (1) Track Settings > (2) Track Timebase > (3) Double Time to change the track timebase and then regenerate (I tested with Guitar 1). The RealTrack playback is at the same tempo as the midi file; however the midi and RealTracks still do not play in sync with each other.
I believe the midi and RealTracks are not in sync because Band-in-a-Box reserves the first two (2) bars for count-in. I bet if you add two bars to the beginning and set the RealTracks to double time the song will play fine.
PS: Another program you might want to look at is +++ ChordPulse +++ It is also a software based midi arranger and has some really nice styles!
Jim, Thank you for your time in trying to figure this out. The "double time" did not help. I tried another style and I had some success. I believe one of the problems is that real tracks do not follow chords same way as midi does with synthesized sound. Maybe I am hallucinating.
I will experiment with other styles from vArranger, maybe some are just buggy. I wonder if there is a way to sync first note of midi to RT in BIAB. As I mentioned, I can align individual exported tracks from BIAB manually in DAW to the midi files from varranger and they play like good boys in the sandbox. The purpose of having things happen in BIAB is to be able to experiment with different real tracks with arrangement from vArranger without the need of exporting until I get it right.
P.S. I have Chordpulse (I follow these types of things too ) I had it for several years now. It is written well and is very solid. The problem with Chordpulse, it has limited styles and all "in house" made. Developer refused to adopt common format (I asked on more than one occasion), such as Yamaha sty or similar. vArranger can use imported styles and there are thousands of them available free and paid. Chorpulse has its unique place, but honestly you can not compare the two.
To those folks who tried to help and thinking of helping.
Kindly put your troubleshooting energy on hold. I think I might be on the right path. Seems it is related to how and which styles are saved in VArranger and conversion to MIDI files. I got some arrangements to work nicely in BIAB just now. I will experiment in the next 2-3 days and will report back if I solved this or not.
In any case, thank you! I am grateful to know there are people here who are willing to help.
I loaded your file and discovered several interesting things. Mine loaded using the MIDI style ZZBOPBAL - I hope that's the one you selected, otherwise there are more problems.
First of all, if you haven't, you need to look at the melody track using the BIAB Sequencer feature. There you will see all the tracks from your MIDI file. That also includes a MIDI drum track. If you mute all the other BIAB tracks, you will then just hear your MIDI rendition, as you did when you had the track disabled.
When I loaded your file, I noticed that the RealDrum selected is an Even feel drum style; however, the the MIDI drum part in your song is in Swing feel. When you add the RealDrums, you get both playing together and that doesn't sound good.
And for the RealTracks guitar, I think that even though it is swing, it is a different swing feel than your MIDI arrangement (I think your imported MIDI file is more of a 16th note swing, but the RealTracks guitar is more of an 8th note swing). So those just aren't going to work well together.
One troubling thing is that I had to keep reloading the file, because the melody track kept disappearing (BIAB told me there was nothing there, when clearly a moment ago it played). Don't know if this is an issue with v2019 - I'll have to look further.
Another thing to keep in mind is that by enabling the style, you enable all the instruments of the style, you run the potential for channel conflicts. Your default MIDI device only supports 16 channels (mine is playing through the TTS-1 synth). With imported MIDI files, it is easy to get channel conflicts with the channels used for the style tracks. You can end up with notes from both a style track and your imported MIDI track playing on the same channel, but using whichever instrument patch was loaded last. So for example, if a piano track (on channel 3) was set for electric piano, but an imported MIDI file had an organ on channel 3, you would get both parts playing together using whichever instrument was sent last to the synth (either piano or organ).
In your file, I see the following:
Channel 5 - Finger Electric Bass Channel 6 - Electric Piano Channel 7 - Brass Channel 8 - Muted Electric Guitar Channel 9 - Trumpet Channel 10 - Room Kit Channel 11 - Alto Sax Channel 12 - Slow Strings
BIAB tracks use the following channels by default (using their legacy names, but any instrument can be assigned to them):
You've got RealDrums enabled, so that overrides the drums track, but had you not you could have had a conflict on channel 10.
With the style enabled, you have two different basses playing on channel 2 (from the style) and channel 5 (your MIDI file). You have strings on the BIAB strings track (channel 7) and your brass on channel 7 from your MIDI file (although you wouldn't hear it because the strings only come in on "B" part markers, which you don't have in your file).
Also, the ZZPOPBAL style is an Even 16th style, which would not be a suitable choice for your MIDI file.
So, at least on my machine (other than the weird intermittent disappearance of the melody track), everything plays as it is supposed to, it's just that the mixing of channels and tracks and style feel (even versus swing versus 8th note versus 16th note) and MIDI channel conflict needs work.
To my mind, this is something that would be better handled in RealBand (or another DAW where you could also use the new VST plugin to generate your additional RealTracks. That way, you can reassign MIDI channels and avoid any conflicts there. Be sure to set other tracks to the same feel and note resolution as your MIDI file (unless you are explicitly going for a different kind of sound).
I hope that helps. Let me know if you have any other questions.
John
Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 12TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 12TB SATA
John, Thank you for testing and trove of interesting info! Reading and re-reading. Many things to explore and learn.
I had better luck with a couple of other styles from my vArranger software in BIAB. I am getting closer to grasping workflow. Unfortunately Real band is a no go for me. I tried it several times (oh, believe me , I did) It just does not sit well with me. BIAB should do this just right.
I am not going for "particular style" from BIAB with this. The style and chords are more or less complete in my vArranger program. With BIAB I am looking to substitute 2-3 tracks for Real Tracks or double them up MIDI + RT if it sounds interesting. It is a bit awkward, because of mixup in the channels, but it is much more convenient than anything else. (Style picker, fast re-generations etc.)
P.S. I believe Mario proposed opening mixer to 16 channels... It would be so much more convenient to have it all laid out in a mixer tracks with clearly defined what is playing in what track. Real track or Midi or both.
If you do anything, you should open the Melody track in the sequencer Window and uncheck the "Play" box for the instruments you are substituting, and also mute any other BIAB tracks from the style that duplicate any tracks you are keeping in the imported MIDI file.
John
Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 12TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 12TB SATA
It's a pity that Realband and you are not on friendlier terms because what you want to accomplish is much easier in Realband.
Because BIAB is not a DAW, it's quite clumsy when it comes to working with multichannel MIDI files and adding Realtracks to the MIDI mix.
Have you had a look at the Realband videos found at the below link? If you want to get the most out of combining you arranger files with Realtracks, it is worth persevering to learn RB (in my opinion).
John, good thoughts. Thank you! This was a very strange experience because midi tracks were not aligned to BIAB mixer. I opened Halion Sonic VST on second monitor, so I can pinpoint what channel in which mixer is playing what, so I can adjust things properly, otherwise it was a huge bowl of spaghetti
As soon as I got it close enough to what I wanted, I just exported everything (Midi / RT) as individual WAV files. Seemed to do the trick.
Noel, Thank you for trying to encourage me to use R.Band, but this quest is probably the last piece of puzzle for me as far as composing software goes... To merry vArranger to BIAB. I am 65% there. I am happy I got this far I feel that learning RB would be a distraction. I better use this time to master BIAB.
P.S. Many things had been suggested for BIAB mixer... If it was open to more channels and added functions, I believe it would solve many issues related to GM Midi / Midi + Realtracks.
Hi folks, Sorry to revive this post. Got another question. Would appreciate if somebody could answer.
Here is workflow I am after: Open midi file in BIAB. Have realtracks/ realdrums on BIAB mixer and have everything midi, from the file opened controlled only from VST mixer, so the tracks (like drums, or any other) are not overtaken by BIAB. So if I want to play 2 drums (midi from file through Halion and Realdrums) at the same time, I would do that.
So that controls of BIAB mixer do not touch mixer of Halion and wise versa.
I know it is possible to move channels and juggle things around...to make it work, but it would be a pain to do it every time.
Is there a universal simple setting that would separate two things (BIAB mixer / Halion mixer) into independent sources for future songs?
Is there a universal simple setting that would separate two things (BIAB mixer / Halion mixer) into independent sources for future songs?
If I'm interpreting your question correctly, you would essentially like to have two easily available mixers that work for separate sections of what's loaded. BIAB does not do this.
It is possible, to have it semi-independent. Arrangement is on melody track. I solo melody track, and all channels from H.S. will play on that melody track and can independently tweak Halion tracks. + choose, for example real track bass from BIAB mixer and soloing it too. Both will play. I can audition two at same time or chose either. So to make a point, it is possible, but very clumsy and not intuitive. So that is one way of isolating instruments, so they play independently.
With this post, I wanted to know if there is a simpler way of doing that.
The only true solution to this (and far not only to this) would be open up mixer to 16 Midi channels.
Or simple and dirty method, to have what I described above happen in more logical workflow.
P.S. BIAB would render all tracks on its own mixer + the ones on the VST, except for original midi drums from midi file. I successfully rendered 11 tracks in one "render" operation.
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