<<< Is there a universal simple setting that would separate two things (BIAB mixer / Halion mixer) into independent sources for future songs? >>>
Not setting but setup, yes. Use the BIAB VST/Halion VST into a DAW and port each track from each VST individually to a track and output to your interface. You could also accomplish the same with a digital mixer with a multitrack interface. The Behringer XR18 would give you 18/18 in/outs for $500. Each track would be independently controlled by its software and you'd control the outputs, Fx's, levels, panning, mixing and routing with the mixer. Similar results can be obtained from a Control Surface such as the Behringer XTouch but you'd still need a separate audio interface to control everything.
Charlie, Thank you. this is not about porting to DAW or controlling them in sense "riding" things in live studio rig. I want to audition select realtracks and compare with midi tracks from imported midi side by side, before rendering tons of wavs, going back and forth between programs.
As I mentioned, it is possible in BIAB (tested!) but very cumbersome. The logical and smart thing would be to open up BIAB mixer to make it more versatile for real tracks and midi.
If this happens, the simplest way would be assign one stereo mixer track as a BUS for monitoring things that come from VST. Get the sound you are after and then render/export to individual wav files to do the mixing in DAW in one step.
I think it is a better approach than involving hardware or exporting huge amounts of data per song just for auditioning purposes. I guess if it is not there, it is a valid item for feature request.
<<< I think it is a better approach than involving hardware or exporting huge amounts of data per song just for auditioning purposes. >>>
I agree. Although the mixer is a one stop hub, in my case, it takes a lot of real estate and is not a permanent fixture in my studio making set up and tear down along with space, so it's not used very often. The situation would be the opposite in a permanent installation.
The mixer is not source dependent and audition options are one, the other, both are neither, all without any latency issues. A good mixer with good Fx would also expand your opportunities to test Fx's side by side without any additional set up. I was looking at your particular issue in the same light as Noel96.
I believe the present limitation is Band-in-a-Box is limited to one midi port and 12 of the 16 channels are assigned.
One solution would be to add multiple midi port capability to the program. Even if one midi port is added all the present midi port one channel assignments could be maintained internal to the program while opening the remaining midi port one channel assignments and an additional 16 channel assignments on midi port two.
Pipeline uses utility programs to accomplish his goals but having multiple midi port capability built-in is a much more elegant solution than creating workarounds.
Another solution would be to have an A/B switch for the one MIDI port BiaB has now. The default could be A, as it it now, and B would be all 16 channels open for MIDI, MST, Rts, RDs or any combination of them to be used at the users discretion.
Checkout person "Did you find everything OK"? Me "Why do you ask? Are you guys hiding stuff"?
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
Quote: "Even if one midi port is added all the present midi port one channel assignments could be maintained internal to the program while opening the remaining midi port one channel assignments and an additional 16 channel assignments on midi port two."
If I understood you correctly, that one extra port, I assume visually an extra mixer channel? That would act as independent midi bus, hosting 16 MIDI channels from VST or such?
P.S. Oh, how I wish this would be a two way communication with developers. If I am not mistaken similar feature(s), (of opening mixer) were requested for years. Not sure what is keeping developers from engaging in conversation?
Was just thinking about you while I was typing previous message! I remember you had good idea about this, but could not remember what exactly you proposed
I think the BIG question is how to get developers involved? Send them Flowers? Chocolate? Beg? Explain? Demand?
Ideally Options > Preferences (Ctrl + E) > MIDI Options > MIDI Settings could be expanded to include a second button called MIDI Port Settings.
MIDI Port Settings would have 20 MIDI channel settings to reflect the four midi channels not used in the default port and the 16 new MIDI port channels. Change the original port MIDI channels from their defaults and the selections available in the MIDI Port Settings four default port midi channel number selections should reflect whatever unused channels remain.
The twenty MIDI channel settings would be assigned to internal and external connections that would includes: 1) 8 permanent mixer channels, 2) 8 floating mixer channels, 3) available USB ports, 4) User defined A, 5) User defined B.
Mario,
Emulating a hardware A / B switch is innovative but limiting. As you described A / B switch emulation it would allow MIDI use within BiaB or direct all MIDI data outside of BiaB. That all or nothing approach eliminates any hybrid options like use of a VSTi in one or more tracks while also using external hardware.
I don't know how easy or difficult adding additional midi port capability is but other softwares
Was just thinking about you while I was typing previous message! I remember you had good idea about this, but could not remember what exactly you proposed
I think the BIG question is how to get developers involved? Send them Flowers? Chocolate? Beg? Explain? Demand?
I have been requesting that PGMusic open up all 16 MIDI channels for years.
Checkout person "Did you find everything OK"? Me "Why do you ask? Are you guys hiding stuff"?
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
Wishes, wishes... Here is my amateur drawing of what would work for me. 16 channels about 9 dedicated for RT/RD (that can be also substituted for MIDI) I think PG limited number of these, because by design (at time it was designed) average computers would not have pulled more, or they would suffer. I think expanding it to about 9 possible simultaneous RT/RD channels should not cause significant pain to render.
And a secondary, independent midi bus, which would not re-assign channels and all settings (volumes/ FX etc.) would happen within VST, only to have master volume be available as control from BIAB mixer.
I know you that you and Realband are not good friends and that's a shame really because what you describe above can be done in Realband without too much effort.
Realband combines all the backing creation and generation ability of BIAB and adds to that some DAW capabilities. It also allows for 48 tracks that can be either MIDI or audio.
Misha, you're essentially asking for what we have all be requesting for too many years to remember. Noel's tip about RealBand will pretty much deliver that now. Or... you can wait...
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
Misha, I think that in the early days of BiaB GM was the biggest thing to hit the music world. (Note that GM is General MIDI and not General Motors ) People were very happy to just put a song into BiaB, do some harmonies and/or play a MIDI guitar controller and come out with good results; good results being based on that era. They could also DL a song from the Internet and have it play. Those were big things back then and people did not have to worry about assigning channel numbers, picking VSTis, etc.
But in today's MIDI world that has all changed. People have learned how to do those things. With the advent of much better sound sources like Kontakt, SampleTank, UVI, and other VSTis that contain many layers of sounds GM went mostly by the way side. GM is still around but it is not as dominant as it was back then.
PGMusic is moving in that direction IMHO. With first HQ sounds, then SFZ, and jBridge and now a 64 bit and a VSTi, although still a work in progress, things are moving fast toward today's MIDI situation.
I still advocate for an A/B switch for MIDI channels with A being as it is today and B opening up all 16 channels for user discretion. YMMV
Checkout person "Did you find everything OK"? Me "Why do you ask? Are you guys hiding stuff"?
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
Noel, Videotrack, Mario Thank you for your replies!
Mario, I was thinking about what Jim said a few posts above and your idea of A/B switch. It seems Jim's idea is more universal. If lets say one more "universal" independent midi track is opened on the mixer that can host entire VST without "stealing" channels, that should solve A/B switch, but in a different way. Because in theory, you should be able to use your VST as an independent mixer and have as many channels as you wish, layering styles etc and they would not interfere with 7 channels that are internal to BIAB.
To make this happen, in my opinion, does not require much. As it is all there, but not logical. BIAB renders tracks from VST + BIAB, so even that is solved...
Or am I missing something?
P.S. I wish people who are interested in this would come to a consensus of something universal for different tasks and appeal to Peter Gannon directly with a worked out, balanced solution. A joined, detailed proposal / request from full time loyal supporters.
I guess, no one interested in my proposal... Of jointly figuring what would be a (more or less) universal approach and apealing this as a group...
obviously did not work for years the way it was requested...
A old joke comes to mind...
A guy is casting a fishing rod and a loud voice from above rattles the air: -There's no fish here!!! Guy looks at the sky and asks: -God, is that you? Voice says: No, I am the manager of this swimming pool!
In any case, I think asking for this jointly, with a worked out solution might bring more fruit than individual requests.
I haven't read all the posts as it's so long. But I did download your BIAB ARRANGER.MGX and had a quick look, the Arranger midi tracks was a bit late and needed moving forward.
If you want to bring a lot of midi tracks into BB use energyXT Vst
pipeline, thank you for testing! It seems that some of these midi files from vArranger have issues. But most are ok and are usable in BIAB. I accidentally turned this post another topic.... of having more channels on the mixer. Particularly in my case, an independent midi channel / bus would be very useful, which would let use VST as independent mixer. Essentially adding as many channels/ layers as your hardware would allow without interfering with real tracks or the mixer of the BIAB except maybe controlling VST master volume from BIAB mixer on that "independent" midi track.
I want to persuade people who are interested, to have a discussion and come up with something that would suit most and appeal as a group request to see if that will work. To my understanding similar individual "requests" were asked for years without success.
... an independent midi channel / bus would be very useful, which would let use VST as independent mixer. Essentially adding as many channels/ layers as your hardware would allow without interfering with real tracks or the mixer of the BIAB except maybe controlling VST master volume from BIAB mixer on that "independent" midi track.
Have you tried MiniHost you can load it in the BB audio track or a midi track. You can then load energyXTvst with a 64 bridging file and have a lot of midi tracks that send out to Kontakt.
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) People were very happy to just put a song into BiaB, do some harmonies and/or play a MIDI guitar controller and come out with good results; good results being based on that era. They could also DL a song from the Internet and have it play. Those were big things back then and people did not have to worry about assigning channel numbers, picking VSTis, etc.
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