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Re: "the sharp keys sound brighter while the flat keys sound more melancholy" True or False? Planobilly #521178 01/29/19 08:19 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 1,740 Bynar ZeroZero Expert
ZeroZero Expert Joined: Jul 2007 Posts: 1,740 Bynar	I think all of these factors play a part, but what I would like to know is the following Under equal tempreament, each note ilt ls a compromise, or at least most of them. They can vary by different percentages. I think this may well have an effect on the 'darkness' of a key too. I don't know any source that I could use to compare though, least not one I could understand Z Win 11 64, Asus Rog Strix z390 mobo, 64 gig RAM, 8700k

Re: "the sharp keys sound brighter while the flat keys sound more melancholy" True or False? Planobilly #521193 01/29/19 09:18 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jul 2015 Posts: 2,533 Cow Country, Florida Planobilly OP Veteran
OP Planobilly Veteran Joined: Jul 2015 Posts: 2,533 Cow Country, Florida	Hi Z, Yes, I get what you are talking about. I have dug into this subject a bit in the past. The complexity of the math and the physic of sound was enough to stop me from putting the effort to completely understand the precise relationships. I started to explain what I think I know, then thought better of it. This is a link to a pretty good explanation but be prepared to put on your math hat. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_temperament Even Better some stuff from UC Berkeley...you might know someone from California would get in the middle of all this...lol https://ptolemy.berkeley.edu/eecs20/week8/scale.html What I wanted to do is find the exact frequency of all notes in a short piece of music in e major and transpose to a flat and compare the two to see if there was any difference in the frequency relationship of the intervals. If that makes any sense to anyone including me...lol The problem with all this conversation about sound is the vague examples we use to try to communicate. We would most like never agree on exactly what "happy" sounds like but we can more easily agree on what different intervals sound like. A new Samsung 1/2 TB USB SSB drive was just delivered by FedX so I need to go play with my new toy!! Damn! this thing is tiny. Cheers, Billy New location, new environment, new music coming soon Seize the moo-ment If you feel like you’ve herd all these cow puns before, you probably have deja-moo

Re: "the sharp keys sound brighter while the flat keys sound more melancholy" True or False? Noel96 #521209 01/29/19 10:21 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,597 J JohnJohnJohn Veteran
JohnJohnJohn Veteran J Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 3,597	Originally Posted By: Noel96 Whenever I change keys in BIAB, all I hear is the same music played at higher and lower pitches. I personally have not noticed that I experience any substantial emotional impact from the different keys. The emotional impact for me comes from whether major, minor or modal keys are used. That is exactly how I see it. I choose a key based on my ability to sing my part.

Re: "the sharp keys sound brighter while the flat keys sound more melancholy" True or False? JohnJohnJohn #521218 01/29/19 11:15 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 21,075 Hamlin NY MarioD Veteran
MarioD Veteran Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 21,075 Hamlin NY	Originally Posted By: JohnJohnJohn Originally Posted By: Noel96 Whenever I change keys in BIAB, all I hear is the same music played at higher and lower pitches. I personally have not noticed that I experience any substantial emotional impact from the different keys. The emotional impact for me comes from whether major, minor or modal keys are used. That is exactly how I see it. I choose a key based on my ability to sing my part. That my friends is what keys are all about. If the singer and/or lead instrument can not sing/play in the chosen key then the band will suck. In other words the key is determined by the lead singer/instrument. You know you're getting old when a recliner and a heating pad is your idea of a hot date! 64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware

Re: "the sharp keys sound brighter while the flat keys sound more melancholy" True or False? MarioD #521348 01/30/19 12:59 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Dec 2016 Posts: 1,169 Gold Coast, Queensland, Austra... Teunis Expert
Teunis Expert Joined: Dec 2016 Posts: 1,169 Gold Coast, Queensland, Austra...	Originally Posted By: MarioD Originally Posted By: JohnJohnJohn Originally Posted By: Noel96 Whenever I change keys in BIAB, all I hear is the same music played at higher and lower pitches. I personally have not noticed that I experience any substantial emotional impact from the different keys. The emotional impact for me comes from whether major, minor or modal keys are used. That is exactly how I see it. I choose a key based on my ability to sing my part. That my friends is what keys are all about. If the singer and/or lead instrument can not sing/play in the chosen key then the band will suck. In other words the key is determined by the lead singer/instrument. Amen HP i7-4770 16GB 1TB SSD, Win 10 Home, Focusrite 2i2 3rd Gen, Launchkey 61, Maton CW80, Telecaster, Ovation Elite TX, Yamaha Pacifica 612 BB 2022(912) RB 2022(2), CakeWalk, Reaper 6, Audacity, Melodyne 5 Editor, Izotope Music Production Suite 4.1

Re: "the sharp keys sound brighter while the flat keys sound more melancholy" True or False? Planobilly #521403 01/30/19 07:53 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Dec 2012 Posts: 110 Goshen, Indiana Takamine Apprentice
Takamine Apprentice Joined: Dec 2012 Posts: 110 Goshen, Indiana	Great discussion on this. I remember reading a fascinating article about "Equal temperament" and "Just Intonation". Noel really explained that nicely. Years ago, when I played a lot of trumpet, I would write songs/arrangements in "standard" band keys. These keys would make playing easier on trumpets, bones, saxes, etc... Now that I'm a vocalist/guitar player, I rarely think about what key I write in. Whatever key fits me and my wife's vocal range is what I shoot for. Even then, sometimes going up or down a half-step can make a big difference in how a song feels. Rich Windows 10, 64 bit \| BIAB 2019 PlusPak \| Studio One 2 Artist

Re: "the sharp keys sound brighter while the flat keys sound more melancholy" True or False? Planobilly #521461 01/30/19 12:17 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jul 2015 Posts: 2,533 Cow Country, Florida Planobilly OP Veteran
OP Planobilly Veteran Joined: Jul 2015 Posts: 2,533 Cow Country, Florida	After a good bit experimenting with my digital piano, I just can not find a really noticeable difference in playing in C or C# or ab and E. I also checked to see if I could tell any difference if I played in a key or used the transpose button. There was none that I could hear. On an electronic keyboard whether or not something is in a flat key or sharp key does not seem to make any difference even with two very different vocals with different lyrical context. Point being, a dark angry vocal does not seem to change in a flat key or sharp key. I don't know how this experiment would be with other instruments. If I understand equal temperament correctly the ratio is the same for every note. Psychoacoustics is the study of how humans hear sounds. I am not even sure I can spell that...lol...so I am sure I have very little knowledge of the science. This idea of "brighter" or "melancholy" may very well be a hold over from the conditions that Noel talked about in his post. I don't think it is accurate in today's world of equal temperament. I also think we all tend to use words that are in essence meaningless to describe something. Meaningless because ask a hundred people to define what they mean and you get a hundred different answers.Go ask a 100 people what freedom means!! I certainly agree with Rich that moving the key up or down on the guitar can make a noticeable difference. Some songs just sound better in certain keys to me. Cheers, Billy New location, new environment, new music coming soon Seize the moo-ment If you feel like you’ve herd all these cow puns before, you probably have deja-moo

Re: "the sharp keys sound brighter while the flat keys sound more melancholy" True or False? Planobilly #521466 01/30/19 12:28 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jul 2015 Posts: 2,533 Cow Country, Florida Planobilly OP Veteran
OP Planobilly Veteran Joined: Jul 2015 Posts: 2,533 Cow Country, Florida	I only assume that Beethoven meant for String Quartet no. 14, 1st movement to be the very definitions of "melancholy" well...he wrote it in C# minor not Cb minor. I rest my case...lol...lol Cheers, Billy New location, new environment, new music coming soon Seize the moo-ment If you feel like you’ve herd all these cow puns before, you probably have deja-moo

Re: "the sharp keys sound brighter while the flat keys sound more melancholy" True or False? fiddler2007 #521986 02/02/19 06:09 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Feb 2019 Posts: 1 E Elan Newbie
Elan Newbie E Joined: Feb 2019 Posts: 1	You can thank Bill Monroe with his high lonesome tenor for the songs in B--5 sharps! Yikes.

Re: "the sharp keys sound brighter while the flat keys sound more melancholy" True or False? Planobilly #521993 02/02/19 07:29 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Sep 2001 Posts: 1,997 Essex England Bob Calver Expert
Bob Calver Expert Joined: Sep 2001 Posts: 1,997 Essex England	A,E,D with a capo on the second fret..........gives you five sharps with three chords and three fingers

Re: "the sharp keys sound brighter while the flat keys sound more melancholy" True or False? Planobilly #522015 02/02/19 09:10 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: May 2003 Posts: 8,021 Rio Grande Valley, Texas silvertones Veteran
silvertones Veteran Joined: May 2003 Posts: 8,021 Rio Grande Valley, Texas	To the guy that said A# sounds like Bb well there is no key of A#. The only sharp key with a # in it's name is F#. Sorry. How important the actual bass line is is also a factor in choosing the key. John ESI Gigaport HD+ Lenovo Turion II /4 Gig Ram/ Win7x64 be 15.6" Monitor "The only Band is a Real Band" www.wintertexaninfo.com/BANDS/JohnnyD.php

Re: "the sharp keys sound brighter while the flat keys sound more melancholy" True or False? Planobilly #522025 02/02/19 10:27 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 25,959 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY Matt Finley Veteran
Matt Finley Veteran Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 25,959 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY	Well, there is also C#, but rather than play in seven sharps, most people would probably choose the five flats of Db. [F# or Gb is a coin flip of either six sharps or six flats, respectively.] BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors

Re: "the sharp keys sound brighter while the flat keys sound more melancholy" True or False? Bob Calver #522028 02/02/19 10:42 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 18,570 Melbourne, Australia AudioTrack Veteran
AudioTrack Veteran Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 18,570 Melbourne, Australia	Quote: A,E,D with a capo on the second fret..........gives you five sharps with three chords and three fingers A little bit difficult on my grand piano ! BIAB & RB2024 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones

Re: "the sharp keys sound brighter while the flat keys sound more melancholy" True or False? Matt Finley #522041 02/02/19 11:45 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: May 2003 Posts: 8,021 Rio Grande Valley, Texas silvertones Veteran
silvertones Veteran Joined: May 2003 Posts: 8,021 Rio Grande Valley, Texas	OK Matt for my education. Circle of 5ths. C no sharps or flats,G,D,A,E,B,F#/Gb,.Isn't this really the end of the sharp keys? Then it's Db,Ab,Eb,Bb,F,C John ESI Gigaport HD+ Lenovo Turion II /4 Gig Ram/ Win7x64 be 15.6" Monitor "The only Band is a Real Band" www.wintertexaninfo.com/BANDS/JohnnyD.php

Re: "the sharp keys sound brighter while the flat keys sound more melancholy" True or False? Planobilly #522043 02/02/19 11:49 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: May 2003 Posts: 8,021 Rio Grande Valley, Texas silvertones Veteran
silvertones Veteran Joined: May 2003 Posts: 8,021 Rio Grande Valley, Texas	Once again stage lingo for me. Calling out keys to a song. Closed fist = C 1 finger up = G 2 up = D etc. 1 down = F 2 down = Bb etc. John ESI Gigaport HD+ Lenovo Turion II /4 Gig Ram/ Win7x64 be 15.6" Monitor "The only Band is a Real Band" www.wintertexaninfo.com/BANDS/JohnnyD.php

Re: "the sharp keys sound brighter while the flat keys sound more melancholy" True or False? Planobilly #522059 02/02/19 01:10 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 25,959 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY Matt Finley Veteran
Matt Finley Veteran Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 25,959 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY	No, you could go one step further and some Circle of Fifths diagrams will continue one step to show 7 sharps (and seven flats). A few then venture into double sharps or double flats, but by then my eyes glaze over! BIAB 2024 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 6.5 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6; Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus Studio 192, Presonus Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors

Re: "the sharp keys sound brighter while the flat keys sound more melancholy" True or False? Planobilly #522092 02/02/19 02:14 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jul 2015 Posts: 2,533 Cow Country, Florida Planobilly OP Veteran
OP Planobilly Veteran Joined: Jul 2015 Posts: 2,533 Cow Country, Florida	My circle of fifth chart hanging on the wall in front of me shows C# and Cb off to one side at the bottom...seven sharps or seven flats. I have seen double sharps and flats but only with really dark sun glasses on...lol I use to play with an old blues piano player who played everything in C#. He was a nice guy and a friend of mine. I was playing guitar so it was no big deal for me. When I ask Walter one day why he played everything in C# he said "Billy, I am a black man and I play on the black keys". I did not pursue the conversation any further as his answer made perfect sense to me!! I guess there are some things that just don't come in the classical training manual...lol Cheers, Billy New location, new environment, new music coming soon Seize the moo-ment If you feel like you’ve herd all these cow puns before, you probably have deja-moo

Re: "the sharp keys sound brighter while the flat keys sound more melancholy" True or False? silvertones #522108 02/02/19 04:29 PM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 21,075 Hamlin NY MarioD Veteran
MarioD Veteran Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 21,075 Hamlin NY	Originally Posted By: silvertones To the guy that said A# sounds like Bb well there is no key of A#. The only sharp key with a # in it's name is F#. Sorry. How important the actual bass line is is also a factor in choosing the key. Actually there is a key of A#: https://www.basicmusictheory.com/a-sharp-major-key-signature But give me Bb any time! You know you're getting old when a recliner and a heating pad is your idea of a hot date! 64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware

Re: "the sharp keys sound brighter while the flat keys sound more melancholy" True or False? MarioD #522202 02/03/19 02:41 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Sep 2018 Posts: 1,362 Denmark W Will Josef Expert
Will Josef Expert W Joined: Sep 2018 Posts: 1,362 Denmark	Interesting subject. Do you all know "The Signature Series" by Paolo Pietropaolo?. Here's about Eb major: https://soundcloud.com/thesignatureseries/e-flat-major Will

Re: "the sharp keys sound brighter while the flat keys sound more melancholy" True or False? Will Josef #522205 02/03/19 02:46 AM Band-in-a-Box for Windows
Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 18,570 Melbourne, Australia AudioTrack Veteran
AudioTrack Veteran Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 18,570 Melbourne, Australia	Yes, I agree. I already knew that Eb is way up there. BIAB & RB2024 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones

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