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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,335
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Yes there are many skills to have in music. Reading is one, theory is one, big ears are very important, improvisation is another skill, and the list goes on and on. Every skill we acquire as a musician enhances what we can do to reach a listener emotionally. And for me, that's what it's all about.
Insights and incites by Notes Yep.... Personally... I was a music major back in the mid 70's. I took some classical guitar classes and an arrangement class. That's where I learned to actually read music. Was I a great sight reader?....NO, not by any stretch. Although, I could read and figure out how to play something. Being as how I had been a long time song writer by then and was in a working rock band I gravitated much more to theory and arrangement than being a proficient sight reader. If I desire to improve my music skills/abilities, interact/engage and learn from other musicians far better than myself it's incumbent of me to learn_the_language of music.....IE: theory. Not to dismiss the importance of learning the language of music by parroting....."oh Bill Bland & The Chandeliers didn't read music or know theory....so, I don't need to either". Buuuuut....that's just me. Carry on....
Last edited by chulaivet1966; 01/29/19 08:05 AM.
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Joined: Aug 2009
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I was working briefly with a bunch of guys trying to get the into a lace where they were passable enough to take their little blues band (We have at least 100 bands here that do what they do) out to play it. During one rehearsal, the singer missed the timing on a pickup note AGAIN (6 straight rehearsals he made the same mistake) and I went OFF on him. I told him that he kept making that same mistake every week, and every week I corrected it, and he did it right. Until the next week when he did it wrong again.
I tried to explain the concept of "anticipation", where sometimes a syllable comes before the downbeat.
Deer in the headlights.
Then I asked the million dollar question. "Don't you know what the downbeat is?"
He didn't know that! How do you play guitar and sing and NOT know what "downbeat" means? Had this guy cared enough about the craft that is music he would have invested 2 hours per night 2 nights a week for 9-10 weeks and learned BASIC BASICS. I don't ask that anybody can score a 16 staff symphony. Learn what rhythm is. Learn the circle of 5ths. Learn how to read time signatures. Learn the steps of a scale, the difference between major and minor, how to build chords. I don't expect anybody to suddenly become Mozart and write manuscripts perfectly the first time to where there is no backup copy. Just learn basic basics.
We had a discussion here once about chord structure and how I was taught the concept. Everybody dismissed the way I learned it by half step count to tell me "Any major chord is 1-4-5." Great.
What does 4 mean? What does 5 mean? 1-4-5 calls for the person to know scales and scale structure. Where the half steps and whole steps are. To a newbie, 1-4-5 means what downbeat meant to that singer.
As far as that band, I called the guy who was running the band and business side of it that night and said I wouldn't be back. I can't fit into a group of people who call themselves musicians and don't speak "music". I told them that with what he had to work with, which was a young hot guitar player and a bunch of guys named Joe, that they would never be more than a "wives and girlfriends, friends and family" type band and that I wasn't interested in playing for 20 people. They played 6 gigs, the guitar player bailed to move to Nashville, and they got a new guitar player who was yet another "wing it" player. They lasted 6 more gigs and disbanded. At the root of it was that the guy running it was the drummer and he was possibly the worst drummer I ever tried to play in front of. I turned on a click track at that same final rehearsal and he was already off time after 4 bars. You can hide anything on stage except the drummer. The drummer has to be great. When I was in the Motown band and we were auditioning for a new drummer, it came down to 2 guys. We called them both and said that we were going out that night to drink some beer and hear some music and they should join us. When they got there we all sat around and didn't talk about the band AT ALL. What I DID do was have one of the band's girl followers "just happen to be there" and get them both to dance. One was smooth as could be on the dance floor. The other looked like a badly animated stick figure. We hired the good dancer, because he had a better natural feel for rhythm.
And he knew what quarter note triplets are. (Theory.)
Awww Guess that would have ruled me out of your band too Eddie, I'm a terrible dancer! 
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Joined: Jun 2003
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I was taught banjo without notes nor tab. All I can say is that is one ornery instrument. Timing was non-existent for me. I fought with it... and fought... and fought.
...Deb
Earl Scruggs felt that it was impossible to teach his 3 finger style of picking banjo without tablature. Considering that his picking style requires hitting a specific string for a given note, and tab s the only efficient way to do that, I agree with him.
Keith
2026 Audiophile Windows 11 RYZEN THREADRIPPER 3960X 4.5GHZ 128 GB RAM 2 Nvidia RTX 3090s, Vegas,Acid,SoundForge,Izotope Production,Melodyne Studio,SONAR,3 Raven Mtis
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Everyone should feel free to make music in anyway they see fit.This is one of the really great things about music. You can be super well educated and make great music. You can be more or less totally uneducated and make great music.
There are many benefits to being able to read and write music. It is a pretty direct way of communicating a musical idea to someone.It is a great way to get new ideas.
There are no real disadvantages to being better educated. Educated folks can break rules just as easily as anyone else.
I have spent a ton of time in the blues world and I can tell you there blues players who can read, write, and run circles around many people with university music degrees. And don't assume because a blues player is playing a 1/4/5 that is all they know how to play.
I don't read very well or have a university education in music. No one on this site has ever been unkind to me as a result of my less than stellar abilities. I have never felt looked down on here. Actually, many very well educated people have really gone out of their way to help me learn new things.
I think BB is a really good tool to use to create music. I also score out many things I create in standard notation and will use any trick in the book to get what I want, to include hiring the best studio musicians I can get my hands on.
I will try to say it in a polite way...To be exclusionary is illogical at best....at worst....well....
Cheers,
Billy
BTW...I ASSUME anyone reading this knows what a 1/4/5 is...if not just ask!!...lol
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Joined: Dec 2003
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............
BTW...I ASSUME anyone reading this knows what a 1/4/5 is...if not just ask!!...lol Yes I know what 1 divided 4 divided by 5 is! It's 0.05!  Ducking and running for cover!
Life is short so make sure you spend as much time as possible on the Internet arguing with strangers.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Joined: Jul 2000
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There is more than one right way to make music.
And you can study music all your life and never run out of new things to learn.
Some very educated musicians can be great technicians and lousy musicians, or they can be great technicians and great musicians.
Studying music is a way to learn how to use the tools of music. If you know the tools well, you can usually express yourself better.
Great talent can overcome lack of education, but if that great talent is educated I would think he/she would be even better.
That isn't to say that you are lousy without the education, it's just that you can get better with it.
At least that's how I feel about it - YMMV
Insights and incites by Notes
Bob "Notes" Norton Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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eddie1261
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eddie1261
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Everyone should feel free to make music in anyway they see fit. Did you totally miss the concept here? Nobody said that not learning music means borders or limitations., The entire thread is full of people essentially saying "Yes you can hack around and play by ear and learn a song every 2 weeks or you can invest 10 weeks of your time, learn the basic basics of music, and learn 10 a day. You can also stumble your way though building a big brick barbecue with no masonry skills, but wouldn't it go faster, and end up better, if you took a class? Particularly when you consider that trying to learn as you go means that the lowest courses of brick, the foundation of the whole thing, is where you have the greatest potential for errors. But how solid would all those courses of brick above be of you had a good foundation? By the top courses you would be laying that brick faster and better. I have never seen a group of people with such tunnel vision. The people who don't read are the ones becoming defensive about their own skills set and jumping to the defense of other non readers by pointing out THREE people who can't read and succeeded. Do you people get the concept of "specifics" versus "generalities"? Wow. Nobody is saying you are a lesser player or a lesser person. Just that knowledge is power in every situation, so why not gather as much knowledge as you can in a field you obviously have some passion about?
Last edited by eddie1261; 02/07/19 04:30 AM.
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eddie1261
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eddie1261
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That isn't to say that you are lousy without the education, it's just that you can get better with it.
Faster, too. Maybe it's the goal of some of these people to start playing gigs in 2025.
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