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I borrowed the thread title from a new forum poster, Greg Tango. It sums up my feelings about Biab's print function nicely.
Myself and others have been talking about this for years. I'm going to be the squeaky wheel about this just like Pipeline was for the VST. If PGM can create a brand new VST then they can fix all these print issues as well.
1. Clean up and combine elements of the Notation Options window, the Print options window and the Lead Sheet Options window. They still after all these years confuse the heck out of me and I can just imagine others without my experience. Here's some examples.
You want to print a chart. Say you're in the Leadsheet window. That's a logical place to be for an experienced player used to reading charts. Also known as what? Leadsheets! Of course somebody might look there. There's an option box there so you make some changes. Does that affect printing? NO! Is there at least a popup saying if you want to print this you're in the wrong Options window? NO. Next point.
At first glance why does Notation Options change the printing but Leadsheet options doesn't? Does Notation Options indicate anywhere that these changes flow to Print? NO!. You finally figure that out, make some changes. Next point.
Now you go to Print Options and check Preview Graphics. If the preview shows the chords too close to the melody notes on the staff below you have to exit the Preview and you're back to Print options. Anything there about changing the chord spacing? NO! Why not? You're in Print Options, jeesh. You have to open Notation Options and reset the chord spacing there. Is this obvious anywhere? NO! You just have to grok it yourself or somebody explains it to you. You figure that out and reopen Print Options and see if that did it. If you don't like it then you have to do that routine again. Now, another thing...
In the Preview Graphics window that shows what the actual chart looks like, there is an OPT button in the top menu bar. You're not happy and need to make more changes. Does that OPT button go back to Print Options? NO! It opens a small pixel size window! What kind of logic is that? Next.
Every time you close/reopen the Print Options it doesn't remember what you did such as do you want to print the first chorus, last chorus or whole song. That goes away every time. Another bug that's been there as long as I can remember.
2. How 1st/2nd endings are displayed. You can change the chord spacing but can't do anything about those endings spacing. They're way too close to the staff and if there's a chord there it's impossible to read.
The problem with 1st/2nd endings could be fixed if the print function allowed individual spacing between the staves. As it is now, the whole song has to be equal spacing. The only control we have is how many staves on a page. If stave 4 is the one with the repeat endings, just allow us to put more space between staves 3 and 4 to allow the 1st ending number and the line that goes over it to be say twice as large and allow room for a chord to be placed above it. The rest of the stave spacing could stay the same if a user wanted.
There's a similar issue with the spacing between the song title and the top of the page as well as spacing between the song title and the first Stave. Many times I only need a few single line spaces somewhere to make one stave that carried over to page 2 fit on page 1. I don't want to be forced to create an equally spaced stave for that.
3. You have font size in Leadsheet Options and Notation options as percentages. Print Options has it as a default of 24. Why percentages in two of these and a simple number in one?
4. I can understand the Leetsheet is for folks who want to follow along on the screen while the song is playing so they may want a different font size or spacing from what is needed to print. Ok, when you open Leadsheet Options have it clearly say this is display only, not for printing. Notation Options would be the same. Notation Options should be for how the Notation looks when you're either looking at Notation or editing/creating Notation. Nothing to do with printing.
I just reviewed again the Print help window. No mention of these endings or codas. They are talked about extensively in the Notation Help window. When you click on the Print Preview link it does show an example of a chart. Old Folks At Home. A dead simple song with triad chords and nothing else. Yes, a song like that displays great because there's nothing beyond the most basic things in it! Try creating an example song with more complex chords like a Ebm 6/9 where the extensions are displayed vertically in parentheses that takes up more vertical space with 1st/2nd endings and a coda and show everybody what that looks like. Trust me, users won't like it.
The VST is being praised because it attracts a more professional level of user who may not have considered Biab in the past. Well, what kinds of songs will that level of user create? Old Folks At Home? C'mon guys use Biab's own song creation functions to come up with something complex and cool, and use that to demonstrate the print functions.
After it's been corrected and actually made useful of course.
Many users don't want to buy a dedicated, expensive and very complex notation program just to produce good charts for band use. They're not writing full musical scores. Biab is almost there guys, fix it and it will turn into a great feature.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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I tend to agree. It's so close but just doesn't have the edge. Probably not incredibly difficult to resolve these nuances.
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
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Yes and for 15 years we've been saying that. Over and over and over...
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Journeyman
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Journeyman
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+1
I have just received a response from PGM to a problem going back to at least 2004. Using a DS al coda AND repeats still doesn't work properly. The sign is correct, the exit and entry marks to the coda are fine, but the DS al coda is lost under the repeat mark.
This is PGMs reply. It just confirms the problem.
"The DS al coda sign is there, it's just buried in the fakesheet of the 3x repeat - which is a limitation of the current programming. This means if you have the fakesheet enabled in either the chord sheet or the Leadsheet - you won't see your DS al coda."
Typically, PGM say "we have reported it to the developers as a feature to possibly redesign in the future"
Their excuse - "Repeats, codas, and endings have always been a difficult feature to program in Band-in-a-Box due to the algorithms used to generate the RealTracks " What has this to do with RealTracks? In fact, I think the problem predates RealTracks.
Peter even responded to one of my emails "Thanks for reporting it. We will look at that for sure."
For many of us, Notation is important, perhaps even more so than thousands of RealTracks and styles. Yet it still print control is really poor. Forum members have complained about the GUI being dated; Printing notation is archaic.
BIAB for Windows Version 2019 (643)
Windows 10 (1909)
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I completely agree.
However this is a common problem when software tries to be all inclusive and that is something has to give. In PGMusic's case it is notation. Notation is not a high priority for PGMusic period.
BUT if a music program includes notation it should be done right and not half @ssed. If would be better not to include notation and depend on other software like the free Musescore then to include a broken version of notation.
I hold this opinion on a lot of software, i.e. quit trying to be all inclusive and concentrate on your specialty. YMMV
Waitress "How did you find your steak sir"?
Me "I just looked next to the potatoes and there it was"!
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+1 here.
Make it simpler.
Make it work.
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+1 here.
Make it simpler.
Make it work.
Jazzmammal:
Don't suppose it would help to also post this on the WishList???
Good luck!
LLOYD S
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The thing that really frosts me is this has been an advertised feature for as long as I've used the program. Afaik, there has been only a few small additions over that time but nothing structural. They apparently created it as it is now and just left it. They must have thought that all anybody needed or wanted was basic simple charts like Old Folks At Home.
What gets me even more is back then Biab was heavily jazz oriented and jazz charts are not Old Folks At Home. Didn't the developers actually look at Real Book jazz charts? The Help file about that implies they did because it says you can create repeats, endings, codas and all that. Well look at the chart for something like Night in Tunisia and make the notation/print function recreate it. Not that stupid Old Folks At Home.
Biab is trying to modernize, attract new users, create newer, hipper Real Styles backed up by all these great new Real Tracks by new young players like the guys from Snarky Puppy. Those kids are skilled, schooled musicians. Think they know how to create good charts?
Ditch old crap like Old Folks At Home to be used as an example. Worried about copyright? A great feature of Biab is it has the ability to create brand new songs with melodies from scratch. So take this opportunity to both create a complex new song and show the chart to go with it.
Why do I have to be Captain Obvious about stuff like this? Ha, it just hit me, the way I've been writing in this thread I'm being a Snarky Puppy too. Whatever it takes.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Peter even responded to one of my emails "Thanks for reporting it. We will look at that for sure." I'm sure I've seen that exact same line before...
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
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Hi Bob, I definitely agree with your list. My main use of BiaB is to write small jazz band arrangements and print Lead Sheets (normal definition) for the whole band.
Plus, using the one BiaB file, try printing out the lead sheets in Bass Clef for a trombonist (I'm one!) and there are even more problems. Bar-Based Section Letters for instance.
So close, yet so far. From one who uses BiaB just about every day - sometimes for many hours. Some of those hours are used up adding ink notes to the otherwise great print outs. My band members absolutely love the BiaB lead sheets! And those that have BiaB themselves are able to hear the arrangements and play-along with those great rhythm sections in their own practice room. So please marketing and programmers, remember when you are making changes for the solo strummers to use live, that we traditional users still want to use the program in the same way. We would also like some improvements to the program for our usage.
Grah Jive Talk
"Don't worry baby, they'll swing their arses off."
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Blackface? Lovely, just effin lovely. I see you're in Ireland, you probably don't know the trouble the governor of Virginia is in right now over him doing some blackface skits when he was in med school. Yeah, a great tune to use as an example of Biab's print function. Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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As for posting this in the Wishlist, been there, done that. Many times.
Pipeline didn't keep his push for 64 bit and a VST in the Wishlist did he? I learned that lesson from him. I've been too polite, too apologetic thinking PGM knows what they're doing, if somethings been in the Wishlist for over ten years it probably means it truly cannot be done, etc, etc. Pipeline blew that thinking out of the water and good for him. The squeaky wheel does get the grease.
I'm going to push and keeping pushing this. And I don't want everybody to simply agree, I think my suggestions are fairly good but others could easily have better ones and I would like this thread to be the place to put them. Graham has a great one about non concert instruments.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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+10.000 for simplifying and optimizing all those distributed print options!
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Hmmm, if there's only seven people on this forum including me who care about this issue, maybe this is the reason nothing has been done for 20 years? I guess most users are not musically adept enough to understand or care about notation and writing charts.
C'mon people, start posting comments, suggestions, whatever or this push will die on the vine.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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Bob,
It would be really great if PG Music stepped in with a comment of some sort. The wishlist is laden with requests for both bug fixes and improvements but we are of course not able to deliver those requests.
I agree that the suggested improvements / fixes would be extremely beneficial, but PGM ultimately decides.
PGM?
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
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I don't like Stephen Foster: also one of those so called 'composers' who actually stole a lot of existing un-registered trad and other material and claimed it to be his work and got away with it. BTW this video is sort of tragi-comedy, also makes me think of a kind of Andre Rieu type Freak show LoL.
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Hmmm, if there's only seven people on this forum including me who care about this issue, maybe this is the reason nothing has been done for 20 years? I guess most users are not musically adept enough to understand or care about notation and writing charts.
...
Bob Because I am more than musically adept and I care about notation, I use other products. I do appreciate the effort PG Music has made to support importing and exporting Music XML. And I agree with Mario that I wish music programs would stick with what they know best and not try to be all things to all users. For many years we have asked for either improvements to notation, or a solid integration with other dedicated notation programs. Since notation is advertised as a feature, it seems unlikely BIAB would remove it, but at least they have made efforts to integrate with other programs better.
BIAB 2026 Win Audiophile. Software: Fender Studio One 8, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Fender Quantom HD8 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
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I agree. Using BIAB as a notation software would save me hours of work, believe me, but I completely gave up on that many years ago. It's a shame, but it just can't be used for that.
Latest BIAB version, latest build.
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I agree. Using BIAB as a notation software would save me hours of work, believe me, but I completely gave up on that many years ago. It's a shame, but it just can't be used for that. I use BIAB for simple leadsheets; melody plus chords .... For serious printing however built into a DAW i'd use Cubase Pro. PS Still have my spare license for sale; Retail Cubase pro v10.0.15, latest, with the dongle 425 USD, shipping insured 20 extra. You can download the 30days trial fom Steinberg to get started, includes Halion Sonic 3SE and Groove Agent 5SE. https://new.steinberg.net/cubase/compare-editions/
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Band-in-a-Box® 2026 Mac Special Offers Extended Until May 31st!
Good news- we've extended our Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac® special offers until May 31, 2026!
Band-in-a-Box® 2026 is packed with major new features, enhancements, and an incredible lineup of new content! The program now sports a sleek, modern GUI redesign across the entire interface, including updated toolbars, refreshed windows, smoother workflows, a new dark mode option, and more. The brand-new side toolbar provides quicker access to key windows, while the new Multi-View feature lets you arrange multiple windows as layered panels without overlap, creating a flexible, clutter-free workspace. We have an amazing new “AI-Notes” feature. This transcribes polyphonic audio into MIDI so you can view it in notation or play it back as MIDI. You can transcribe an entire track (all pitched instruments and drums) or focus on individual parts like drums, bass, guitars/piano, or vocals. There's an amazing collection of new content too, including 202 RealTracks, new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 5, two RealDrums Stems sets, and much more!
There are over 100 new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®.
When you order purchase Band-in-a-Box® 2026 before 11:59 PM PDT on May 31st, you'll also receive a Free Bonus PAK packed with exciting new add-ons.
Check out the Band-in-a-Box® for Mac packages page to find the best package for you.
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Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac - Special Offers End at 11:59pm PDT on Friday, May 15th, 2026!
Order before 11:59pm PDT on Friday, May 15th and SAVE up to 50% on most Band-in-a-Box® version 2026 for Mac Upgrade packages... and that's not all! With your version 2026 for Mac purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons FREE! Upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks... that's 222 NEW RealTracks available with version Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac!
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202 New RealTracks Released with Band-in-a-Box 2026!
With Band-in-a-Box® 2026, we've released 202 incredible new RealTracks (in sets 468-488) in a variety of genres—featuring your most requested styles!
Jazz, Funk & World (Sets 468-475):
Our new jazz, funk & blues RealTracks include a groovin’ collection of RealTracks and RealDrums! These include more requested “soul jazz” RealTracks featuring artists Neil Swainson (bass), Charles Treadway (organ), Brent Mason (guitar), and Wes Little (drums). There are new “smooth jazz” styles (4), which include a RealTracks first: muted trumpet, as well as slick new smooth jazz brushes options for drums. Blues lovers will be thrilled—there are more “classic acoustic blues” styles, including guitar (5), bass (4), and drums (10) with blues master Colin Linden, featuring understated and tasty background acoustic soloing, plus brushes drums and acoustic bass. There are also new electric blues RealTracks, including electric blues with PG favorite Johnny Hiland (3) and soulful electric slide guitar from Colin Linden (4). If you love funk & gospel, there are great new options this year, including gospel organ (3) from Charles Treadway, as well as new funk, tango, and rock ’n’ roll drums (3) and bass (1). And for big, bold arrangements, we have uptempo soul horns (4) featuring a three-part hip horn section with options for a full mix or stems of each individual horn — plus an accompanying rhythm section (4) of drums, bass, guitar, and electric piano!
Rock & Pop (Sets 476–482):
Our new rock & pop RealTracks bring a powerful mix of requested favorites, fresh genres, and modern chart-inspired styles! We have more of our popular “Producer Layered Acoustic Guitars (15)” featuring Band-in-a-Box favorite Brent Mason. We’ve continued our much-requested disco styles (10), and added new Celtic guitar (5) with a more basic, accessible approach than our previous Drop-D or DADGAD offerings. There are also highly requested yacht rock styles (17), inspired by the smooth, polished soft-rock sound of the late ’70s and early ’80s — laid-back grooves, silky electric pianos, warm textures, elegant harmonic movement, and pristine production aesthetics. Fans of heavier styles will love our new glam metal (13), capturing the flashy, high-energy sound of ’80s arena-ready guitar rock. We also have a set of rootsy modern-folk rock (18), with a warm, organic sound combining contemporary folk textures and driving acoustic strumming. And we’ve added lots of new modern pop styles (16) — the kinds of sounds you’re hearing on the radio today, featuring exciting new drums, synths, and cutting-edge RealTracks arrangements.
Country, & Americana (Sets 483–488):
Our new country & Americana RealTracks deliver a rich collection of acoustic, electric, and roots-inspired styles! We have new country pop (9) with legendary guitarist Brent Mason. There is also a potpourri (14) of bouzouki, guitars, banjo, and more, perfect for adding texture and character to contemporary acoustic arrangements. We’ve added funky country guitar (5) with PG favorite Brent Mason, along with classic pedal steel styles (5) featuring steel great Doug Jernigan. There are more country songwriter styles (8) that provide intimate, rootsy foundations for storytelling and modern Americana writing. Finally, we have “background soloing” acoustic guitar (12) with Brent Mason — simpler, but still very tasty acoustic lines designed to sit beautifully behind vocals or act as a subtle standalone solo part.
Check out all the 202 new RealTracks (in sets 468-488)!
And, if you are looking for more, the 2026 49-PAK (for $49) includes an impressive collection of 20 bonus RealTracks, featuring exciting and inspiring additions to add to your RealTracks library. You'll get new country-rhythm guitar styles from PG Music favorites Johnny Hiland and Brent Mason, along with modern-pop grooves that capture today’s radio-ready sound! There are also new indie-folk styles with guitar, bass, 6-string bass used as a high-chording instrument, acoustic guitar, and banjo. Plus, dedicated "cymbal fills" RealDrums provide an added layer that work very well with low-key folky styles with other percussion.
The 2026 49-PAK is loaded with other great new add-ons as well. Learn more about the 2026 49-PAK!
2026 Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!
With your version 2026 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons for FREE! Or upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
- The 2026 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 27 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 25 new RealTracks and 23 new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 12 new RealStyles.
- MIDI Styles Set 92: Look Ma! More MIDI 15: Latin Jazz
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 46: Piano & Organ
- Instrumental Studies Set 24: Groovin' Blues Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 19: Songs with Vocals 9
- Playable RealTracks Set 5
- RealDrums Stems Set 9: Cool Brushes
- SynthMaster Sounds Set 1 (with audio demos)
- iOS Android Band-in-a-Box® App
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2026 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
- 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyle.
- FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
- MIDI Styles Set 93: Look Ma! More MIDI 16: SynthMaster
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 47: More SynthMaster
- Instrumental Studies 25 - Soul Jazz Guitar Soloing
- Artist Performance Set 20: Songs with Vocals 10
- RealDrums Stems Set 10: Groovin' Sticks
- SynthMaster Sounds & Styles Set 2 (sounds & styles with audio demos)
Learn more about the Bonus PAK and 49-PAK for Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Mac®!
XPro & Xtra Styles PAK Sets On Sale Now - Until May 15, 2026!
All of our XPro Styles PAKs and Xtra Styles PAKs are on sale until May 15th, 2026!
It's the perfect time to expand your Band-in-a-Box® style library with XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs. These additional styles for Band-in-a-Box® offer a wide range of genres designed to fit seamlessly into your projects. Each style is professionally arranged and mixed, helping enhance your songs while saving you time.
What are XPro Styles and Xtra Styles PAKs?
XPro Styles PAKs are styles that work with any version (Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition) of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). XPro Styles PAKS 1-10 includes 1,000 styles!
Xtra Styles PAKs are styles that work with the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). Xtra Styles PAKs 1-21 includes 3,700 styles (and 35 MIDI styles)!
The XPro & Xtra Styles PAKs are not included in any Band-in-a-Box® package.
The XPro Styles PAKs 1-10 are available for only $29 ea (reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Listen to demos and order now! For Mac or for Windows.
The Xtra Styles PAKs 1-21 are available for only $29 ea (reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the Xtra Styles PAK Bundle for only $199 (reg. $349)! Listen to demos and order now! For Mac or for Windows.
Note: XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 19 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version as they require the RealTracks included in the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
Supercharge your Band-in-a-Box today with XPro Styles PAKs and Xtra Styles PAK Sets!
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