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So I've been playing folk guitar for many years, and have been learning jazz guitar for the last 2.
It's difficult for me, and I can play solo for myself but am in no way ready to play solo for others. I've been using BIAB backing tracks for old jazz standards and have gotten it down to just drums and bass, with me playing melody and improv.
So I finally got the nerve to play for a group as background at an art exhibition with BIAB on my laptop for bass and drums background.
I think it went very well and I got many compliments. But in the back of my mind I feel like in some way I'm cheating, because I didn't use live musicians and I can't play that as a solo artist. I feel like I'm cheating the many fine jazz guitarists who don't need backing tracks, or the live musicians who could be backing me.
Am I being overly sensitive or is this an ok way to play for people? BTW, BIAB with real tracks makes some awesome backing tracks.
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I play solo shows using backing tracks. Some people may call it cheating but I just call it being a smart businessman. Not every place can afford to hire a full band. If you can give them the illusion of a full band at a soloist's price they are overjoyed.
On a similar note I was listening to a podcast the other week where they were saying that even the big named artists in country music are using backing tracks. They said people want to go to a concert and hear what they hear on the album. In order to do that the band will play to a track since so much of what's on the album is overdubbed and edited. So I guess if the big shots are doing it then it's not cheating.
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Thanks, I hear what you're saying. Glad there's others playing gigs with backing tracks. I think a lot of what's bothering me is that I can't play these as a solo jazz guitarist without a backing track. So I'm thinking I shouldn't be playing at all in public until I get to that level which could be years or forever.
If my laptop broke went out I'd be screwed. On the other hand, I think of some of the greatest guitar players like Freddie Green who never even took solos, they just backed up the band. But a real band.
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Well...who would not like to have a "real" band?
I want Gregg Bissonette to play drums...well he played for Ringo Starr last year
I want William "Billy" Sheehan to play bass...I know he is a old guy but younger than me...lol
I want Paul English to play B3...another old guy from Houston, Texas
I want Itzhak Perlman an Israeli-American violinist Because he is one of the nicest people you will ever meet and he can play anything
While I am wishing for stuff I can not have I want the The Memphis Horns to come back to life and send Gary Moore down from heaven to play lead guitar.
Oh, by the way, I want 250K per musician per hour to play. Well...why not?
How is it possible for one guy to "cheat" playing to a backing track? What's up with that. Is singing to a backing track cheating? You can't have a real vocal without having a real band? You can't have a real guitar solo without a real band?
This is all a bunch of nonsense. Go play your guitar to who ever will listen backed up by what ever you got at that moment and charge as much as you can get!!!
Best of luck,
Billy
“Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig?
“Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”
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I think for small gigs like you describe, if the venue knows what's up and, to some degree, the crowd too then it is def not cheating. I know some folks on this forum are able to do local gigs and use backing tracks. If the audience is coming to see art or to dance they may not care.
On the other hand, I don't think backing tracks work if folks are coming to see the performer specifically. I know personally, if I am paying to see an artist perform I definitely do not want them to play prerecorded material!
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The truth of the matter is, lots of big well known acts in today's world are using backing tracks in live gigs. Good, bad, or ugly, it is what it is.
The singer with the guitar that is buried in the mix or not even plugged in is becoming more common.
Electronics in general are being used more and more. Bruce Springsteen has been catching hell for using teleprompters so he can remember the lyrics to his own songs.
How is that any different than Jimmy Reeds wife standing on stage telling Jimmy the words to his songs?
The way money is made for big bands has changed. They use to go on the road to promote an album. Now they go on the road to make their money and they want the best sound that they can produce.
In today's world music is becoming more and more based on appearance, showmanship,visual impact, sonic impact. Walls of amps and speakers you see on stage are frequently fake. Real or memorex, who cares!! lol
This all comes down to what you personally want to be involved in. Real or recorded, there is plenty of room for both.
I personally think the issue is less about electronic support than being dishonest about it use. I would prefer bands like U2 and the Stones to just say we are using backing tracks to get a better sound, get over it!!
Cheers,
Billy
Last edited by Planobilly; 03/04/19 04:30 PM.
“Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig?
“Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”
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Yeah, I've read that Paul McCartney has a teleprompter built into his piano. And you said "Bruce Springsteen has been catching hell for using teleprompters" which just proves my point that people are looking for authenticity in a performance from a pro like Bruce! But having lyrics on a tele is a whole lot different than not actually singing, right? I mean, if you're OK with backing tracks because the quality is better, why not just lip synch to the studio version of the songs like they did in the 60s? And then, if you're gonna have that, why should the star even have to show up? Just play their CD for the concert!  Obviously there is a line there somewhere where it ceases to be a live show but we might not all agree on where that line is. For me, the second a performer starts singing and drums start playing without a drummer I'm calling *FAKE*! And as I said, I simply will never pay to watch someone "perform" with prerecorded tracks.
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This all comes down to what you personally want to be involved in. Real or recorded, there is plenty of room for both.
I personally think the issue is less about electronic support than being dishonest about it use. I would prefer bands like U2 and the Stones to just say we are using backing tracks to get a better sound, get over it!! Cheers, Billy In reading your comment above and contemplating this topic it seems to me now there's a point where a concert one spends good money to attend is actually a total performance as expected by the group or just a simulation of backing tracks?....or both? Adding lots of colorful video for the big screens to distract from any backing track perception by the critical listeners? I portend that trend (backing tracks) will become more mainstream if it isn't already. I may be revealing my ignorance here. But...I'm old and come from an antiquated perspective. In the live venue...it'a all about the band's performance. Hence, I may have a more hard line stance for my preference and what I'd spend money on. A simulation in any aspect isn't one of them.  Is it "cheating"....to each their own take on it works for me. Carry on....
Last edited by chulaivet1966; 03/04/19 07:05 PM.
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A friend is using backing tracks currently.
I have not seen anyone reacting poorly to the fact his is not using a full band.
...Deb
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as long as I am playing my bit live its not cheating. i'm a singer who plays guitar and both vocal and guitar are live. and the backing tracks i use are all created by me. harmonies are me singing in the recording too.
so its all me - just some of it pre-prepared. and the audience want entertainment not musical puritanism.
i've played live in bands in the past and you do miss the telepathy when you signal the rest of the band to 'go round again' but at least the drummer doesn't go off with strange women in the interval.................
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I have two different opinions on this depending on the venue.
1-for a duo or single performer using backing tracks in a venue that can not afford a full band then that is not cheating IMHO. That place would not have any music if it wasn't for that performer and his backing tracks.
2-I am against big name performers in large venues that charge a lot of money to get in using backing tracks, pyrotechnics, and/or distracting videos. (live videos of the performing artists are OK). I want to hear how the musicians play live, like in the good ol' days, not see a fake show.
YMMV
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It's certainly not cheating to use backing tracks. It's a matter of economics. If the venue is small, they can't afford to pay for a band. In addition, the musican's quality or talent level is top notch professional with BB tracks. You can't often find the level of professionalism with local musicians that you get from BB tracks.
I don't play live anymore, but if I did, I would not hesitate to use BB tracks. I record in the studio and more than once, when I post on a site other than here, I have had people ask me who is playing on my tracks because they are really good.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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I have two different opinions on this depending on the venue.
1-for a duo or single performer using backing tracks in a venue that can not afford a full band then that is not cheating IMHO. That place would not have any music if it wasn't for that performer and his backing tracks.
2-I am against big name performers in large venues that charge a lot of money to get in using backing tracks, pyrotechnics, and/or distracting videos. (live videos of the performing artists are OK). I want to hear how the musicians play live, like in the good ol' days, not see a fake show.
YMMV I totally agree with MarioD on this one. In addition, the majority of places that I play are very "volume sensitive", and really don't want a live band with drums, etc. I include the following when I'm soliciting a venue for a potential gig: I’m able get a full band sound by using High Quality Instrumental Accompaniments. My "virtual band" is quite popular and perfect for all venues, because I have complete control of the total volume. This works great in all settings--including “intimate” ones like restaurants and wineries--because it allows patrons to enjoy the music while still being able to converse, place orders, discuss various wines, food, etc. with the staff. Frank
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I don't think using backing tracks is cheating as long as you're representing yourself as a "one man band".
Have you ever watched a lounge act with someone playing an arranger keyboard and pedal bass while singing or a karaoke performance? The idea is to perform and entertain the audience.
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If you go to a Paul McCartney concert, you don't get the same as you would 20-50 years past.
If you attend an Eagles concert today, it's not the same authentic Eagles anymore. The same can be said for a Drifters concert, Four tops or Temptations. None of the original members tour and in several of those groups, none of the original members are still alive, yet you can book or attend concerts by all these groups and you'll pay the ticket price as if they are legitimate and they'll be represented as being the real deal.
A year or so ago, I posted a video of the Jason Aldean FOH engineer giving their tour setup and according to the engineer, they were running servers, tracks, VST's VsTi's, pre-recorded BGV's and more than 255 Effects on the instruments and vocals. There were a ton of vocal effects on Aldean's voice alone including 4 separate compressors. At that concert, you were not hearing the 'real' and 'raw' Jason Aldean with just a 'little' reverb added. You heard tracks playing during times he may be dancing around or playing a difficult lead fill or solo. You were hearing pitch correction and auto tune, etc.
Billy is right, all major tours have backing musicians playing along with the stars, backing tracks, pre-recorded vocal parts, Pre-recorded BGV's and such. It's nothing new. Check out David Wills of ProAudio DVD's. He was a programmer and sound engineer for Michael Jackson, Whitney Houston, Diana Ross and a ton of other major acts and even back then, they programed and choreographed every instance of every song.
Anybody that thinks it cheating likely hasn't done it and is unaware of the skill, timing and practice required to pull it off in a acceptable presentation. It's not easy to do and it requires lot's of practice and skill. It is hard work....
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The biggest hoax in the history of backing tracks was produced by Frank Farian who I think is still alive and living here in Miami.
Milli Vanilli is a pretty sad story of two European kids who got caught up in a multi million dollar lie. It resulted in the death of Rob Pilatus, one of the two "lip sink"
singers. Frank sold this idea to Arista Records and I can not imagine that Clive Davis was not well aware of what was going on. Many law suits resulted from all this. Grammys were won and given back. But at the end of the day millions of dollars were made.
You would think after all this backing tracks and fake stuff would be less tolerated. In fact, they have just proliferated. If people will buy it, someone will sell it.
Cheating... the act or an instance of fraudulently deceiving. If I am standing playing guitar and drums, bass, and piano are coming through the PA who could I possible be fraudulently deceiving?
This is not an issue about using backing tracks, only about being deceptive about there use.
My take,
Billy
“Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig?
“Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”
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If you attend an Eagles concert today, it's not the same authentic Eagles anymore. The same can be said for a Drifters concert, Four tops or Temptations. None of the original members tour and in several of those groups, none of the original members are still alive, yet you can book or attend concerts by all these groups and you'll pay the ticket price as if they are legitimate and they'll be represented as being the real deal. True but many of the groups are in fact original members! I go see The Moody Blues every other year or so and they are original except for the flute player and they have a second drummer. One of the first things I do when considering seeing one of these old groups is check to see if the original singer and guitar players are in the lineup and if not...NOPE!
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Dictionary definition of cheating: “To act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, especially in a game or examination.” Your situation certainly does not meet that definition. No worries. Enjoy your performances. Bud
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I ask does it matter almost everyone these days is using something for assistance or methods to make them sound better live. In the good old days one stood there either alone or with several mates and knocked out a tune, had a good time and hoped for the best, it worked but now it can be much better.
I can recall back about 1974 we were doing a show as the second band to a guy that had a hit on the radio. He asked could we do the song so he could say “we don’t want to show up the local band”. Later that night they had a really nice harmony coming out and there was nobody at the mikes. (That I called cheating). He was however very upset we he discovered we were in fact getting paid more than he was. We did the same show the next year he was nowhere to be seen.
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I wouldn't say using backing tracks is cheating, personally. For a small time local musician, hiring a whole band isn't possible. We have the resources now, might as well use them. If you're a big name artist though and still using backing tracks, I'll find it questionable.
Cheers,
Deryk
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