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Hi PG Music,
Please revisit Real Track 3211 (Harmonica Soloist Shuffle Fiery LD SW 130).
This new real track has some excellent slower (long drawn out) phrases which fit well into Blues Shuffles especially when you select the simplified version.
However it also has lots of phrases that are just plain wrong (not in tune) or in a completely different Genre.
It also has way way too many "stabbing" phrases which again are not suited to Blues or Rock in any time and of any variety.
There is also no space in it so the notes and phrases are not musical and just loose all meaning - they are just a big mess.
There is also no "build" in this real track - good phrases are not built on with variations - instead they are followed by utterly different phrases in a completely unrelated genre.
I also notice it plays quite differently depending on which song key you select - e.g. if you select Gb, F or E all the good long notes are gone regardless of how many times you regenerate the song.
Therefore this very promising realtrack is virtually useless.
I would really appreciate it if somebody familiar with Blues, Blues/Rock or RnB music at PG Music could take a look at this realtrack and make it a real asset for all of us.
Thanks & Best Regards
Nigel
Nigel Spiers
Christchurch, New Zealand
info@nzacoustics.com
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Not only this one, but some things about other more recent RTs i don't like. F.i. most Irish instrumental backing RTs are far too busy when put together i a mix, soundwise in the same frequency range like some slightly muddy sounding acoustic guitars, cellos and bodhrans. Nice when solo-ed, but for backing? Also there's too much of a colliding syncopation rhythm racket going on at times when used together. Nathalie Haas' cello is very nice but quite un-useful due many rhythm sycopations getting in the way of melodies. Some editing could be done there in regards of simplifying rhythms at least. But that's all IMO .....
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I find that to get the most from the real tracks, I have to pick and choose what sections I want. In other words, I don't just take the whole track and use it "as is". I use volume envelopes in my DAW to edit out the things I don't want to use.
I also find that occasionally, I hear a part I like but it's in the wrong place in the track. I use audio edit to cut it out and move it to where I want it. It takes a bit of work but it's well worth the effort.
I do understand what you say about some tracks simply don't work because they are too busy or don't fit the groove. I've deleted more tracks from projects than I wish to recall, for that reason. Somehow, it always tends to work out. I look for a different track that does work, or I simply do without. No one knows in the end but me.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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Quite often my way to work things out with the soloist type RTs too ..... But some times the generated solo parts just seem to be really off, and around totally different chords, and even totally missing when there are 4 chord changes in a 4/4 bar measure f.i.
It probably is a hellish job to get things right for the programmers.
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Hello Nigel,
It would be great if you could email us a frozen .SGU and comment on the specific bars that you hear issues, and we can see if it is fixable. I did notice a few oddities in the key of F, but I'm not sure if it's what you're hearing, and a frozen .SGU from you would be worth a thousand words.
Andrew
PG Music Inc.
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Hi Andrew,
Thanks for your reply - much appreciated.
Perhaps I did not explain myself very well. This is not a bug in your software - no it's a problem with the music itself.
I'm not sure what has gone wrong with Real Track 3211 and all the rest of that performer's real tracks - but they simply don't work.
As I'm sure you are aware good music is not about how many notes you can play per minute - it's all about the quality of the notes.
Try it yourself on any 12 bar 130 bpm shuffle - it simply doesn't work does it?
I tried my usual trick of rendering Realtrack 3211 twenty times then lining up all the renders in my DAW. In each 3 minute render I may have been able to use around 5-10 notes out of the thousands being played.
With someone like Brent on Guitar I only have to render his solos 3-4 times and I can always mix and match to get a good result.
I'd like to think you could just revisit all the musician's recordings and redo the Realtracks - but unfortunately the material just isn't there.
Such a shame as the tone and the quality of the recording is fine and we can't have enough "real" Blues Realtracks for my liking.
Best Regards & Keep Up The Great Work.
Nigel
Nigel Spiers
Christchurch, New Zealand
info@nzacoustics.com
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Hi Nigel,
I just loaded the demo for the style _GAMBLIN.STY, which contains 3211, and it played fine for me. It's a great harmonica sound.
Does the track that you have RT 3211 loaded on have "double-time" set by any chance. When I set "double time" in Realtrack Picker for 3211 in _GAMBLIN.STY, it did not sound too good. Maybe something like this has happened.
Regards,
Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2026
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Hi Noel,
No - it's not double time.
I think you and Andrew need to sit down with some of the great harp players and hear how it should be done e.g. Little Walter, Sonny Boy Williamson II and Charlie Musselwhite. This is real music.
Good Luck on your musical journey of discovery.
Regards
Nigel
Nigel Spiers
Christchurch, New Zealand
info@nzacoustics.com
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Hi Noel, .... some of the great harp players and hear how it should be done e.g. Little Walter, Sonny Boy Williamson II and Charlie Musselwhite. This is real music.
Good Luck on your musical journey of discovery. Regards Nigel Allways wondered why a harmonica is called a harp ... enlighten me ? 
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Hi Fiddler2007,
There is not a definitive reason why the Harmonica is commonly referred to as a Harp.
However here are a few snippets from my browsing on the subject:
The name "harp" is not a replacement for "harmonica."
The instrument was called a harp before it was called a harmonica.
And harmonica was already the name of another instrument.
The first harmonicas were called Aeolina - which refers to a harp
whose strings are excited to sound by wind. Here the reeds replace
strings. Other early harmonicas were called "mundharfe" - mouth-harp.
I'm not sure when the harmonica name was first borrowed to refer to
our instrument.
Meanwhile, the name "harmonica" referred to at least one other
instrument, the most recent of which was the glass harmonica, which
operated by the friction of the fingers against wet glass. Benjamin
Franklin is said to have invented a form of this instrument that
resembled a treadle-operated lathe, with several glass discs of
different sizes (and pitches) rotating in a trough of water.
Mouth organ is perhaps the most technically accurate, as free reeds
are also used in organs and harmoniums.
Best Regards
Nigel
Nigel Spiers
Christchurch, New Zealand
info@nzacoustics.com
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Thanks .... heard music from Laos once, i think the thing was called sheng or cheng; sounded just like a blues harp, also the way in was used in a song ... Makes one think it should be called sharp then, as the sheng instrument seems to be much older. sheng
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I'm not sure what has gone wrong with Real Track 3211 and all the rest of that performer's real tracks - but they simply don't work.
Try it yourself on any 12 bar 130 bpm shuffle - it simply doesn't work does it?
It just so happens I'm working on a 12 bar 130 bpm I-IV-V shuffle at the moment, using mostly _COOKIN.STY. I dropped in that realtrack 3211 and you are right, it doesn't work. Maybe the part of the realtrack that determines what riffs to play for each chord is wrong??
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Hi Andrew,
Thanks for addressing the problems with the LD Harmonica soloist Realtracks so quickly with Build 625 - much appreciated.
I installed 625 today and immediately tested out the LD Harmonica Realtracks.
I tried them with both Blue and Green Part markers and also Simplified mode.
Unfortunately there is no difference at all - they all seem completely out of tune to me and also still playing all those weird staccato phrases which are totally unrelated to Blues Music or any other Genre that I can think of. They are so out of tune that I had to keep muting the harmonica Realtrack to make sure that something weird was not happening to the bass and piano parts.
Maybe it's because my test song is a 12 bar in Gb and with a timing of 105 BPM SW. I know this is not ideal for use with a 130 BPM SW Harmonica Realtrack but timing is not one of the the issues here.
Please advise what I am doing wrong.
Nigel Spiers
Christchurch, New Zealand
info@nzacoustics.com
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I followed Icelanders advice on using the Soloist generator instead. You can adjust quite some perimeters at maybe a little confusing sub- and sub-sub menus BIAB-wise, and got slightly better results, but it takes a bit of experimenting. Some soloist tutorial video, Callie, for the next one?
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Hi Fiddler,
Thanks - I am aware of but not familiar with the Soloist feature in BIAB.
Is this based on Midi instruments or Realtracks?
Best Regards
Nigel
Nigel Spiers
Christchurch, New Zealand
info@nzacoustics.com
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Both IMO, and eachtime i tried it over the years it sort of acts like an unbranded untrained horse going places never seen before. Rarely coming up with something (melodically) interesting for me. Food for Jazzers i guess mainly. MIDI delivers more variation than RTs, RTs only some slight variations. PS interesting site on harp: INFO
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fiddler2007 and NigelSpiers, Both of you may find +++ THIS +++ post by Alyssa of PG Music interesting. Her post provides a link to +++ THIS 11:45 YouTube Video +++ with an overview of the Soloist settings.
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Ah, Thanks ... oops, me and me ole loudmouth ....
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Hi Jim,
Thanks - yes that Video was very interesting.
I tried adjusting all the settings within the BIAB Soloist for the LH Harmonica Real Track solos and NO significant improvements were audible.
I've given up and will get a friend to play the harmonica solos.
Topic closed - thanks all forum members for your suggestions.
Best Regards
Nigel
Nigel Spiers
Christchurch, New Zealand
info@nzacoustics.com
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LD Harmonica soloist (FIXED)
I have finally worked out a solution:
You include this harp soloist in the first two bars, mute them in the next two bars.
Include them in bars 5-6, mute them in 7 & 8.
Include them in bars 9 & 10, Mute them in bars 1 & 12.
Then you render the song 30 times.
Then you edit in DAW to mute all phrases where the harp gets totally out of control.
50 hours work!
Bingo - you have yourself a song!
Nigel Spiers
Christchurch, New Zealand
info@nzacoustics.com
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