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Oh no Bud, no way, I have a new novel to post.
WAR AND PEACE:
My Life in the BIAB Forums
By David Tolstoy Snyder
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Mr.Tolstoy, only if you do it in form of a song and post it here, in User Showcase. Please do not diminish, original writings of your great ancestor*. You are young and full of energy, you can do better than just 587,287 words! (had to google that one).
+1 for moving this topic elsewhere.
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eddie1261
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eddie1261
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Unfortunately I have to disagree with Eddie on his assumption the Users Showcase is a strict songwriting forum for several reasons. First and most importantly, his definition is so restrictive there are some of my original songs that didn't qualify to be posted. I have had several forum members 'cover' my original works and they released the song here in the Users Showcase. Other forum members have done the same with other forum members. By every definition, these songs are covers and do not qualify under Eddie's restrictive code. A cover is not constrained to a commercial hit song. I am aware that in the past some forum members have corroborated with friends or family and used BIAB to create the instrumental backing tracks of their song and posted these on the Users Showcase with the writers permission. Again, this falls short using Eddie's narrow and restrictive interpretation of proper use of the Users Showcase.
Second, It has been my understanding the entire time I have been a forum member that if one had all the rights to a song, it could be posted in the Users Showcase. Over the years, several members obtained legal license to commercially and privately record and release copyrighted material and some of those releases made it to the Users Showcase. When it has been questioned in the past, every time, inclusion of the license number was sufficient to stop any assertion the song was either improperly or illegally posted against standing Users Showcase regulations.
Third, it is my understanding the entire time I have been a forum member the Users Showcase is a song forum and not a songwriting forum. It is to showcase members use of PGMusic software in their music production. There are at least three other forums on the PGMusic site that direct focus more toward unauthorized covers of copyrighted material or songwriting subject that buttress my position in my opinion. My assessment is that Eddie's assumption and decision the Users Showcase is a songwriting forum is incorrect and not supported by the listed regulations nor past enforcement and acceptance of posted songs.
Fourth, public domain songs have always been considered the BIAB artist has all rights to the song and publishing them in the Users Showcase has been accepted the entire time I have been a forum member.
Fifth: Eddie posted this in the wrong forum...... Sixth: It's not my "code". I didn't write that rule. I read it. It's the forum's rule. Line 1. I believe in following the rules. And that's why I brought it up. Apparently different people have different rules, or immunity from following posted rules. That lucky dozen or so who are in the clique can do whatever they want, The rest of us lowly users have to follow the rules. Particularly the rule written on the very first bullet point of the forum. I thought the clique thing was over for me when I left high school 50 years ago. But I am out of the discussion now. If the mods want to kill this thread I have no problem with that.
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Eddie,
it is important discussion. People suggested moving it to proper forum section, not deleting it.
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I do mostly covers of other people's songs but I won't/don't post them in User Showcase. If this topic is directed at me then I will exit stage left and ride off into the sunset.
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Eddie,
it is important discussion. People suggested moving it to proper forum section, not deleting it. Plus 1
BIAB 2025:RB 2025, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.
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I do mostly covers of other people's songs but I won't/don't post them in User Showcase. If this topic is directed at me then I will exit stage left and ride off into the sunset. Please don't...
Jim
†=☮&♥
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Don, I'd far rather you stayed . Eddie, why do you wish to upset people and keep getting back up ? If you are so annoyed with all the cover songs, then just don't bother coming to visit the forum. Problem solved. I also totally disagree about a clique being on here. Sheer poppycock !
Last edited by furry; 02/26/19 12:06 AM.
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I just want to hear what everyone is doing musically...
So don't get your feelings hurt...
Don't get upset & leave...
Just share your musical ideas with me & others who want to listen.
Jim
†=☮&♥
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I rarely post on the user showcase, so maybe I should keep my opinion to myself. But I have been on this forum long enough to see a lot of water flow under the bridge, a lot of conflicting opinions and the occasional clarifying ruling by PGMusic.
All of the "official rulings" I've ever seen have been quite permissive compared to the user suggestions leading up to the ruling.
If I had to describe in a nutshell all of the past official rulings, they'd all boil down to "Have fun, but don't do anything illegal"
The purpose of the user showcase, I believe, is in its name: SHOW us what you are doing with PGMusic products.
Some people are writing original songs, some are interpreting public domain works, some have purchase a license to make it legal for them to post a cover. The way I see it, if what you are doing is legal, its OK.
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The purpose of the user showcase, I believe, is in its name: SHOW us what you are doing with PGMusic products.
Some people are writing original songs, some are interpreting public domain works, some have purchase a license to make it legal for them to post a cover. The way I see it, if what you are doing is legal, its OK.
+1 Nicely said. There some amazing covers/arrangements/public domain items that had been posted to Showcase. I do not want to see them gone!
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One way to achieve owning all the song rights is when you are presenting your interpretation of a public domain song, i.e., not copying another version.
Regarding the PD it is challenging but assuredly possible to research whether or not a song is in the PD and for which country that applies to. For every PD song we have posted here I did extensive research to determine that it was actually in the PD and that, consequently, we would own all rights to it. The result of this research was the production of PD songs that we have had licensed by Mood Media with no ownership issues.
I'm not trying to be didactic or self-righteous...just presenting our decision and perspective and I intend no disrespect to anybody who differently interprets the above. PG Music's leniency is obviously their prerogative.
Bud
Our albums and singles are on Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music, YouTube Music, Pandora and more. If interested search on Janice Merritt. Thanks! Our Videos are here on our website.
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Not sure if this point has been made before, but some people simply CAN'T compose music even though they may be damn good musicians and arrangers. My view is that it would be a real shame if those who CAN'T compose aren't allowed to show off their talents. Even those of us who DO compose frequently get a mental block and can go for weeks or even months without being able to compose, I found myself in this situation last year and due to illness and just not having the mental capability I was months not composing anything.
So I say we need some kind of leniency on this matter.
I apologise to you Eddie for getting a bit harsh I havn't been in the best of health myself for some time and I get wound up quite easily.
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I think Bud came closest to the correct answer. But, not close enough IMHO!  The first rule says this, The songs must be originals, no copyrighted or "cover" songs. You must have all of the rights to the songs. This seems totally unambiguous to me. And it seems PGM went out of their way to make it so. The first part of the first sentence says it all. If you didn't write it you cannot post it. You cannot cover any song, public domain or otherwise and have that be an original. Furthermore, if you wrote it but transferred rights away then the second sentence prohibits you from posting it. Sundance pointed out that Peter Gannon himself indicated it is OK to post links to covers in the "I just heard Band-in-a-Box on YouTube". So...problem solved! If you wanna post a cover put it on Youtube and link to it in that forum. If you have something you wrote and you still retain rights to then post it in the showcase. By following these simple rules you are ensuring that PGM does not get in any trouble for licensing violations.
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Just to continue that thought...why would PGM discourage posting public domain songs in the showcase? Simple! Not everyone will agree or understand or do their due diligence to ensure a song is in the public domain. Also, what might be in the public domain in your country may not be in another and this is an international website. So, if PGM allowed public domain covers they could be assuming some level of responsibility for policing it. And it is far easier for them to simply say originals only.
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A big ole FWIW: I don't consider a PD song production to be a "cover." Why? Because as PG Music states you must own all of the rights. And with your interpretation of a PD song you own it in toto. You can license it as yours and do whatever you wish with it. Millions are played everyday and posted on YouTube, etc., with no issues. PG Music's comments on covers is certainly understandable; however, unlike SoundCloud and other sites PG Music is not "hosting" the songs posted...they are only posting a link to them. Their approach encourages users to use BiaB to create songs and be creative with their product. And it has certainly worked for us! All our years in bluegrass bands we played either covers or PD songs. Were it not for BiaB we would not be writing now. Thank you. As far as what is the country of origin goes regarding the PD that's interesting. One might argue that it is where the host, e.g., Soundcloud is located? I don't know. For us we always use the USA laws which are by far are among the most stringent in the world. For us, if PD songs were to be banned about 25% of our catalog would have to be removed Not to mention that many of our blues or traditional bluegrass songs are so obscure in origin we've gone to great lengths to give the story behind them. Hey some of them date to the 1700's like the reggae version of Pretty Polly we did. Bud
Our albums and singles are on Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music, YouTube Music, Pandora and more. If interested search on Janice Merritt. Thanks! Our Videos are here on our website.
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By definition - Public Domain "the state of belonging or being available to the public as a whole, and therefore not subject to copyright."
John Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 2x2TB, 1x4TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 2x1.5TB, 2x2TB, 1x4TB SATA BB2025/UMC404HD/Casios/Cakewalk/Reaper/Studio One/MixBus/Notion/Finale/Dorico/Noteworthy/NI/Halion/IK http://www.sus4chord.com
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I don't consider a PD song production to be a "cover." But your interpretation of an existing song is still in violation of the very first thing they say, "The songs must be originals". Maybe PGM does not care but I wonder why they said "The songs must be originals" if songs that are not originals are acceptable? I'd like to hear from PG or someone authorized to resolve this. We can only be as accurate as their statement. And their statement is pretty clear.
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If I register, i.e., copyright my version of a PD song I consider it original. As much as somebody who uses exactly the same complex chord progression of a song and calls it his or her own . Yep, I know progressions can’t be copyrighted. FWIW, With our PD songs we invariably change the chords and the lyric. I think PG Music has amply demonstrated liency regarding the use of PD material. OK that’s my story and I’m sticking with it!
Our albums and singles are on Spotify, Apple Music, Amazon Music, YouTube Music, Pandora and more. If interested search on Janice Merritt. Thanks! Our Videos are here on our website.
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If I register, i.e., copyright my version of a PD song I consider it original. As much as somebody who uses exactly the same complex chord progression of a song and calls it his or her own . Yep, I know progressions can’t be copyrighted. FWIW, With our PD songs we invariably change the chords and the lyric. I think PG Music has amply demonstrated liency regarding the use of PD material. OK that’s my story and I’m sticking with it! It's a cover! 
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