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Dave, don't get me wrong...if these "artists" are able to convince starving musicians to pony up $997 for their "secrets" then they certainly have mad marketing skills! Of course this is nothing new! From the beginning of time humans have been trying to convince other humans to give them their money in exchange for the secret to success.
I recall a recent true story I read in Modern Archeology Quarterly...
Thag claimed he was an excellent woolly mammoth hunter. The best in the land! But rather than hunt woolly mammoths Thag decided he preferred to share his super secret woolly mammoth hunting techniques for the low, low price of 997 cowry shells (and stay safely inside his cave.) He told great stories of Scramp, a neighboring hunter (that no one had heard of) and how ol' Scramp was killing 326.7% more woolly mammoths since subscribing to Thag's course. And, a very small number of people, from the local seaside community of Gull Able, signed up for Thag's course. They did not ever report the kind of results Thag promised but Thag insisted they didn't follow his plan properly. When woolly mammoths started to become rare, legend says the locals boiled and ate Thag.
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John,
I have been struggling for 3 months to come up with an idea for a novel that I can sell to Netflix that will produce a period piece that will run for Six Seasons.
I was at a loss.
No more.
Thag
Gotta run. Thanks. You are the Wizard man. Everything they say true.
Wait, Netflix is calling. Really gotta go now.
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Just be sure to credit Gary Larson for the name. Oh and send me 997 cowry shells.
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"Looking at one of her testimonial poster's, Taylor Mesple's older videos were getting 20-50 views and his newer ones have thousands. 50-60 thousand plus. Something must work - Could it be her collaboration with The Starmaker Machine?" Old Taylor Mesple is running his own racket.  https://taylormesple.bandcamp.com/backstage "For $225/year, you get everything above, plus:Each year you subscribe at this level, you will also receive a PERSONALIZED ONLINE HOUSE CONCERT where I perform for you online for 45+ minutes. It will be clear in both the things we say during the concert and the decorations around the musician(s) that this is YOUR concert in your honor and that we are performing for YOU. "Bob Fest" could be the title, just saying... This will be open to the public to watch online, but you will be the reason for the event and the title of the show will have your name in it. The online platform we use allows attendees to chat in real with one another and tip the musician(s) performing (I might have special guests!) We might even sing a song for you or to you, or take a special song request. Show will be at a mutually agreed upon day and time. You will get to chat with me privately after the show via Facetime for a short while. You can invite your friends over to your place to watch the concert and be a part of the Facetime call if you'd like." As thrilling as that offer seems, I'll have to pass. I'm saving up for my annual NSAI dues.  Regards, Bob $225 is not even a fraction of prices some Dad's paid my Son in Law's DJ business for silly nonsense stuff at their daughter's wedding...... He received that much for a Gobo with a Calligraphy letter to shine on a wall... As a serious matter, I'm in David's camp on the legitimacy of this entrepreneur's free advice. First, It's all you need and the math works and second, it follows the advice my brother told me over and again for years. Third, I'm the one that introduced her to the forum. If someone is marketing $25 worth of product and can't sell a thousand units in a year, ....... as MarioD famously states, YMMV. But if they can, that's $25,000 and is more than your friendly McDonald's server or part time Walmart greeter is pulling in all the while working far more hours. Do what you're passionate about even if it's whittling wood and luck and fortune may one day come your way. Can anyone say Duck Dynasty?
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Yes, Charlie... you are probably right... I was a bit quick with that statement. There were many "bad" records in the old days too, but there are many more songs published today than in the 70s/80s, which makes the amount of recently published "bad" songs quite overwhelming.  Locally for me and available to you via streaming, is an obscure little FM radio station that is absolutely addictive for song analysis, obscurity and a library of songs inspired and written toward the 'In the Style of..' genre of music. In a span of 10 minutes you will hear three of the most obscure songs followed by one of your all time favorites. A lot of famous artists find their way to this station via side trails they took during their career steering away from the Pop genre where they are massive stars to Jazz, Blues and other genres that were major influences on them when they were young and just starting their career in music. I would like to have a listen to the stream from that radio station... what's the name of it? Also, I have never seen the movie you mentioned so I will check that out too. Thanks, Will
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Will,
Do a web search on the movie and right after do a web search on the term "Dick Clark's Caravan of Stars". Between the two, you'll learn a lot about how the music business worked until the British Invasion came along.
Charlie,
Put up a link to the radio station stream please.
Jim Fogle - 2025 BiaB (Build 1128) RB (Build 5) - Ultra+ PAK DAWs: Cakewalk Sonar - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8 Laptop: i3 Win 10, 8GB ram 500GB HDD Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home
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Hey David, All kidding aside, I agree with you that this lady has some valuable info to share. Here is another person I follow who has been successful at this...Heather Dale. If you have 10 minutes or so check out her TED Talk "How to find a tribe that loves your art", https://youtu.be/f7tO-8PIR9s
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94.9 The Surf FM Radio For those requesting the Radio Station Stream, here you go. Enjoy and find you some good BIAB songs to copy. From the Home Screen , I had to click on the All Time Beach Music Top 40 Button and the Listen Live Button is on the upper left. Will, I'm sure you will enjoy "That Thing You Do".
BIAB 2025:RB 2025, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.
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JohnJohnJohn, I've had a good time 'meeting' Heather Dale. Thanks for posting the link. Her ideology closely mirrors Leah McHenry's and Heather gives more detail of her success using a system that is fun and lucrative without fame. Here is another favorite Micro Niche artist that I've followed for years and unfortunately he passed a few years ago. His niche in songwriting is that he's a great storyteller and plays guitar in Open D tuning. He also developed a large following in teaching basic home recording using Presonus Studio One. His tutorials were the first I ever found on YouTube. He focused on beginners and intermediates and let the advanced "take care of themselves". Here's my favorite song of his and I think is a good example of how he puts a story together. Simple and effectively I think. "Melissa" by Guthrie Thomas
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This is very cool John, thanks.
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Ha, that wasn't what I was expecting to read. I've read similar stats. It's the same in most aspects of the music industry and even in most professions; a small minority earn most of the money. I guess that's why it really helps to love making music, if it was done purely for the money I'm sure there would be a lot fewer songwriters. Congrats at being in the top 1% though David.
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In 2017, around 1.51 million acoustic guitars were sold in the United States.
Taken together, 2.6 million acoustic and electric guitars were sold in the U.S. last year, up 300,000 from 2009, according to the National Association of Music Merchants.
A little under 40,000 pianos were sold last year.
All of this was in just one year. Assuming the same sales for the last ten years we have something like 26 million new guitars being put in the hands of a mix of want to be to really good guitar players.
How many of those wanted to write a original song to make money? Who knows. There is also the group who acquired an instrument before that ten year period.
So...take that out world wide and you have hundred of thousands or perhaps millions of people who are trying to write a song.
A few of those people are really good at it and have the right connections with the right stuff at the right time.
Is it possible to make money playing/selling music? Yes, thousands of us have done that. Could you send your kids to university on that money? Some but not many could.
Can anyone who is "unknown" write a hit song on demand to be played by someone who is "unknown". No, no one knows what will become a hit based solely on the music.
You do have a pretty good chance of writing a hit song if you have written some in the past and the artist is current and in his prime. Yes, Bernie Taupin comes to mind. What was that piano players name??...lol
On the other hand I remember this guy...
Lawrence Wayne "Wild Man" Fischer (November 6, 1944 – June 16, 2011) was an American street performer known for offering erratic, acapella performances of "new kinds of songs" for a nickel or a dime each on the Sunset Strip in West Hollywood.[1] Most of his life was spent homeless or institutionalized, and he later became regarded as "the godfather of outsider music"
Sorry, I lived in LA much too long...lol
Billy
Last edited by Planobilly; 03/02/19 07:41 AM.
“Amazing! I’ll be working with Jaco Pastorius, Charlie Parker, Art Tatum, and Buddy Rich, and you’re telling me it’s not that great of a gig?
“Well…” Saint Peter, hesitated, “God’s got this girlfriend who thinks she can sing…”
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I agree with Shaun in this whole discussion. If music making for money is like taking part in a lottery with a winningchance of 0,000001%, you better spend your money in a real lottery. BUT... if you like making music, concentrating on that will probably gives more satisfaction than 'winning' some bugs while doing a lot of concessions to your music.
Unless of course your name is David, the richest songwriter BiaB ever had. ;-)
If I want to become a successful songwriter in the Netherlands, I have to write lyrics in Dutch and make Hip Hop music. Both I realy don't want. Stupid? I hope one day my songs become that niche. If not... bad luck, but still happy (enough.
Thanks,
Hans Berkhout
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Hans, It's true man. When I saw my streaming sales on Spotify last month, I bought a third home in your neighborhood. Why don't you come over and we can all get rich. Do you know Max Martin by any chance???
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eddie1261
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Her goal was to reach one thousand people that will purchase her album of the Micro Niche genre along with some other accessory such as a T-Shirt or Coffee Cup. The Album and souvenir will sell for $25.
Her goal is to sell 1000 of these units over the next year.
1,000 X $25 = $25,000 yearly income.
Did she have production costs, printing the CDs through a service or are they home computer burns? Are there CD sleeves with art work? How much does each mug and shirt cost to produce? The first 2 questions are variables, but home burned CDs vs CDBaby burned with artwork sounds kind of cheesy to me. And those mugs and shorts aren't $0 to her unless she also does ceramics and screen printing. Only point being that it isn't 1000 x $25. Reality is $25 less expenses. So it's likely more like 1000 X $13-$15. Wish her well with her dream though.
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Yes, she is talking about gross income and of course there are expenses. As you allude, expenses are malleable and somewhat controllable. Her point is exactly as stated; 1,000 units at $25 is a gross amount of $25,000. The $25 product can be a single item or consist of multiple items to generate the $25 sum. It's just an example but it's to show how uncomplicated it is to generate income from music without being a star. Even if she fails to reach her goal of 1,000 and only makes sales of just over half that amount, 636 units at $25, the $15,900 will match the gross income of a McDonalds Production Manager's gross national average salary of $15,896. The point is one can make an income off music the same as they can making hamburgers.
Last edited by Charlie Fogle; 03/17/19 09:42 AM.
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It's just an example but it's to show how uncomplicated it is to generate income from music without being a star. Even if she fails to reach her goal of 1,000 and only makes sales of just over half that amount, 636 units at $25, the $15,900 will match the gross income of a McDonalds Production Manager's gross national average salary of %15,896. The point is one make an income off music the same as they can making hamburgers. This is true in the same way saying any kid can grow up to be president is true. Granted, making 15k in music will be an easier accomplishment but it is still highly unlikely the vast majority can pull it off. And for sake of argument let's say you do manage to do it once, what about next year and the year after, etc.? Unfortunately there are far more people willing to pay for a Big Mac week after week, year after year than will ever buy your $25 music package even once. I admit it might be possible but it is more like lottery than working at MickeyD's! At least the clown pays regularly and on time and if you don't work out there is another one 10 feet down the road!
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<<< This is true in the same way saying any kid can grow up to be president is true.>>> No, not the same at all. Since the creation of the US, there have been only 44 people achieve the status of President. (Grover Cleveland was President twice and Trump is number 45) In 2016 there were a total of 26 candidates on the ballot. 24 had no chance of winning. The opportunity to run for president only comes up every four years. The opportunity to run on any presidential election has limits and requirements that not every kid will grow up to the circumstance of meeting the presidential candidate requirements. The odds of a musician creating and releasing a record that becomes a hit song are astronomically better than any random child growing up to be president.
My late brother (a successful musician and producer) made his living his entire adult life in the music business. He made it clear to me that one only has to manage to have a huge hit once to ensure a lifetime income that the person can live off of. Plenty of people actually earn enough money in music to live comfortably but are unable to manage money in a way to keep it and spread it out over a lifetime.
<<< far more people willing to pay for a Big Mac week after week, year after year than will ever buy your $25 music package even once. >>> True. You also have to sell 6 big macs for every CD. It's impossible to find a 10 year old big mac for sale at any price. However, it's not unusual at all to find a 10 year old CD, Vinyl album, or even older still available to purchase today. The Beatles Sgt Peppers album released in 1967 is still widely available at all of the music media outlets. That's 52 consecutive years it has been available world wide to purchase if you wanted to. If you kept your CD current with whatever media format for audio is, your CD content could be available for purchase for 50 + years too. There are literally hundreds of thousands of recordings released over the last 50 years and more still available. Is it common? Not for the less commercially viable releases but not unheard of either.
I'm as ordinary person as exists here on the forum and I sold a song that had set dormant for 44 years to a record producer that's received two Grammy nominations since 2009. To be honest, the sell price was more than the entire album sales did back in the day. The bottom line is your CD has zero chance if you don't put it out there but it does have a greater chance of earning you substantial income than your child has of one day becoming president....
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your CD has zero chance if you don't put it out there but it does have a greater chance of earning you substantial income than your child has of one day becoming president.... And neither is any more likely than winning the lottery! 
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Now J3, how quickly they forget. Just go back a few years man. Remember, remember...the poppies will put you to sleep, you will wake up, turn on the t.v., and... BAM. It could happen to you dude!!!!!
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Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
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- Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster,
- Instrumental Studies Set 23: More '80s Hard Rock Soloing,
- MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster
- Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8
- RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®!
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Mac!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Mac!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
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