|
Log in to post
|
Print Thread |
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,040
Veteran
|
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,040 |
I love the blend of the flugelhorn and flute together. Otherwise, with a trumpet, I would generally use a cup or harmon mute (no stem) to play with a flute.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 7,693
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 7,693 |
I'm still not getting it. All I'm talking about is changing the name of the notes or scale as it applies to other instruments. The Bb horn plays an Eb scale (to him) but it's F concert. If you simply changed the name to F nothing else changes. The notes are the same, the fingering is the same, the horn player no longer thinks of that sequence of notes as a Eb scale, that's all. It's an F scale.
Obviously this is just an intellectual exercise, no way are all of the music colleges all over the world going to change that convention. I've had this conversation before over the years and frankly no one can give a clear explanation as to why it really has to be this way. I boils down to what Mac said, basically all the people who figured this all out hundreds of years ago got it right. That's fine but not an explanation. What does the fundamental note the instrument plays have to do with it? If that fundamental note happens to be a G concert, so what? It's still a G. It's only a name. The C trumpet was mentioned along with the fact it is built differently and has a different sound. What's the problem with playing the C pitch on a regular trumpet and simply calling that note what it is, a C?
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,439
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,439 |
G'day Bob, Quote:
All I'm talking about is changing the name of the notes or scale as it applies to other instruments. The Bb horn plays an Eb scale (to him) but it's F concert. If you simply changed the name to F nothing else changes. The notes are the same, the fingering is the same, the horn player no longer thinks of that sequence of notes as a Eb scale, that's all. It's an F scale.
Actually, it isn't really the same when you take into account that many musicians that play so called "tranpsosing" instruments also double on other instruments.
Sax players: Mostly Eb and Bb and occasionally C, add clarinet in Bb and A...
Trumpet/Cornet players: A, Bb, C, D and Eb
& etc. Lots of instruments fit the category.
So. Take the Trumpet. Concert C (3rd space) on a Bb horn is 1st valve, 4th partial. On an Eb horn it's 1st and 2nd valve, 3rd partial. On an A horn it's 2nd valve, 4th partial. On a D horn its 1st valve, 3rd partial and on a C horn it would be NO valves on the 3rd partial.
Confused yet? I sure am and I play the things... When I'm not on my 'bone or Eupho.
By doing the transposition in the music, I can pick up the trumpet the music is for and the written C is no valves, 3rd partial - very consistent - lets me concentrate on playin' the dots.
All same for the sax, move from Bari to Tenor to Alto to Soprano. Eb to Bb to Eb to Bb. Transpose the music and the player just plays the dots. No worries about octave shifts or fingering changes. Oh yeah, don't forget the C melody sax - just to confuse things even further.
It may seem odd to someone who plays a concert tuned instrument but believe me, it's MUCH easier for those of us who play transposing ones.
--=-- My credo: If it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing - just ask my missus, she'll tell ya  --=--You're only paranoid if you're wrong!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 8,333
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 8,333 |
Trombonists are a tricky bunch in a lot of ways. The instrument seems to 'match' the personality. We stuffy horn players might bend or lip a note, they dick about slurring and trying to hit you with the slide, or tickle your ear. If their bell is big they can't see what's going on, so they keep playing. And playing. And then some of them want treble clef with the part for Bflat. Others for C. Then some of them want bass clef, in either Bflat or C. And some are just good enought that you can give them the eb tuba part and they can transpose it on the fly. And the double bass trombones can make the back of your head shake for 5 minutes.
Don't get me wrong, I will go out after and have a stout with them, but the only issue in the baritone sections is we fight over the 1st and 2nd parts. As there are 3 of us and it's my wife and the director's wife guess who loses that argument.
When orchestras of the entire world do things one way, right or wrong it's right.
John Conley
Musica est vita
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,439
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,439 |
Quote:
Trombonists are a tricky bunch in a lot of ways. The instrument seems to 'match' the personality...
Why thank you John. It's so nice to be understood... 
--=-- My credo: If it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing - just ask my missus, she'll tell ya --=--You're only paranoid if you're wrong!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 8,333
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 8,333 |
LOL, hey every Wednesday night I sit in front of 8 to 10 of the 20 or so who play trombone with us and I often have tears in my eyes from laughing. They do have a good time. The tuba players on the other hand are all so serious.
John Conley
Musica est vita
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,439
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,439 |
Quote:
... They do have a good time...
NEVER trust a man whose instrument changes shape while he's playin' it 
Say, wanna know the trick for playing an Eb part on the 'bone (or baritone)? Read it as concert BASS clef and add 3 flats.
--=-- My credo: If it's worth doing, it's worth overdoing - just ask my missus, she'll tell ya --=--You're only paranoid if you're wrong!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,040
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 27,040 |
Hey Bob, don't feel badly if you don't get it. It is confusing. In your example, if the Bb horn plays an Eb scale, it will be sound as a Db concert scale, not F. Since the horn is pitched one full step below concert pitch, the notes it plays when reading concert pitches will be one full step below concert pitch. If you want it to sound a concert pitch, you have write a note one full step above concert pitch to compensate. To hear a concert Eb scale from a trumpet, you write an F scale.
The reason I chose to write about the fingering issue, and not the tube length and fundamentals etc., was that there are a few exceptions. The trombones for the most part read bass clef and are taught that the open fundamental is indeed C, rather than Bb, even though the horn is pitched an octave below the Bb trumpet. So it can be done the way you say. Similar thing for baritones. Some learn bass clef and pitch it in C because they started out as trombone players. Some (like me) learn treble clef and Bb, because they started out on trumpet. When I write a part for a baritone horn, I first ask them which clef they want, and that tells me how they interpret the horn. Usually.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 7,693
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 7,693 |
Quote:
As there are 3 of us and it's my wife and the director's wife guess who loses that argument.
When orchestras of the entire world do things one way, right or wrong it's right.
There we go, now I get it! Thanks, guys
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 8,333
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 8,333 |
In a 'true' brass band (English style) everything is supposed to be in Treble clef. Doesn't happen much unless the music was printed there and intended for brass band.
American (Sousa type) brass bands don't follow that as a rule.
The other rule we break in our band is we take all who show up. So instead of 2 Euphoniums and 2 Baritones we may have 4 of each.
Just found out our spring concert rehearsals start Wed. Heros is the title. I hope he leaves William Tell outta that one.
John Conley
Musica est vita
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,259
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,259 |
The thing that amazes me is that the transposition expertise of the pros who play in symphony orchestras. I have never understood why they just don't print out the notation, for their own instruments, since we've had that technology for a long time now.
Then those same folks also play the old style horns without any valves. Although I like to watch them, I have no interest in learning how to do that. I know a pro fr. horn player who plays a horn without valves and her articulation is incredible. Of course she also has a triple, made in Germany, for around $17,000.
And then there's improv.......
Stan
Cornet Curmudgeon
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 8,333
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 8,333 |
Natural horn. No valves. Use your lips and hand. The old ones were painted inside the bells. We used them for a couple of Handel pieces recently.
And every once in a while our 'leader/teacher' Dr. Hank picks up a regimental horn that might have a crook to change from one key to the other, but often in F and he just improvises with us and leads with the other hand. It always sounds good, but I guess being a brass professor it should eh?
John Conley
Musica est vita
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,259
Expert
|
|
Expert
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,259 |
John, I think that you are very lucky to have the opportunity and experience of playing in that type of band.
Cornet Curmudgeon
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 31
Enthusiast
|
|
OP
Enthusiast
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 31 |
So, to beat a dead horse,
I take my Fake C sheet of say Blue Christmas in G
Enter the Chords
F9/F9-Fmaj9/C7
Transpose the Chords down 1 Tone
and get
Eb9/Eb9-Ebmaj9/Bb7
and I can play the notes as is on my sax
A/A-G-A/E-G-, but they will sound one tone lower and match the new chords in BIAB.
Please say it is so
:-)
Ron
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 19,833
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 19,833 |
Looks right to me, Ron. What a tenor sax player thinks of as "C" in tenor sax music is actually Bb in concert pitch music. So, lowering the chords (in concert pitch) by 1 tone (as above) will match concert pitch chords to the tenor sax melody.
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2025
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Band-in-a-Box for Windows
|
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502
Veteran
|
|
Veteran
Joined: May 2000
Posts: 38,502 |
Ron--
Don't change the key signature to do that, as it would also change the chords and notes you see and have to read on the tenor sax.
instead, use the Transpose option found inside the Notation View Options or the one found in Prefs.
This will change what you see up one step, but leave the sounds playing at the original target Key and everything is easy from there on out.
--Mac
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Ask sales and support questions about Band-in-a-Box using natural language.
ChatPG's knowledge base includes the full Band-in-a-Box User Manual and sales information from the website.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Mac!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Mac!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.
Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Windows!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.
Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: VST3 Plugin Support
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® now includes support for VST3 plugins, alongside VST and AU. Use them with MIDI or audio tracks for even more creative possibilities in your music production.
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Macs®: VST3 Plugin Support
Video: Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®: Using VST3 Plugins
Join the conversation on our forum.
Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Mac Videos
With the release of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac, we’re rolling out a collection of brand-new videos on our YouTube channel. We’ll also keep this forum post updated so you can easily find all the latest videos in one convenient spot.
From overviews of new features and walkthroughs of the 202 new RealTracks, to highlights of XPro Styles PAK 8, Xtra Styles PAKs 18, the 2025 49-PAK, and in-depth tutorials — you’ll find everything you need to explore what’s new in Band-in-a-Box® 2025.
Reference this forum post for One-Stop Shopping of our Band-in-a-Box® 2025 Mac Videos — we’ll be adding more videos as they’re released!
Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Mac is Here!
Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac is here, packed with major new features and an incredible collection of available new content! This includes 202 RealTracks (in Sets 449-467), plus 20 bonus Unreleased RealTracks in the 2025 49-PAK. There are new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 4, two new sets of “RealDrums Stems,” XPro Styles PAK 8, Xtra Styles PAK 19, and more!
Special Offers
Upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac with savings of up to 50% on most upgrade packages during our special—available until July 31, 2025! Visit our Band-in-a-Box® packages page for all the purchase options available.
2025 Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK Add-ons
We've packed our Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK with some incredible Add-ons! The Free Bonus PAK is automatically included with most Band-in-a-Box® for Mac 2025 packages, but for even more Add-ons (including 20 Unreleased RealTracks!) upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for only $49. You can see the full lists of items in each package, and listen to demos here.
If you have any questions, feel free to connect with us directly—we’re here to help!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forums58
Topics84,323
Posts777,758
Members39,619
| |
Most Online25,754
Jan 24th, 2025
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dansk
Deutsch - Windows
Español
Français - Windows
Italiano - Windows
Nederlands
Polski
Português
Svenskt
русский
Japanese
Simplified Chinese
Traditional Chinese
Korean