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Mixing,Mastering,Post Production.....what's a guy to do??? #538292 05/26/19 12:47 PM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Jan 2010 Posts: 862 Sonoran Desert mrgeeze OP Expert
OP mrgeeze Expert Joined: Jan 2010 Posts: 862 Sonoran Desert	My goal is to improve the quality of my backing tracks. I create single mono .wav files from BIAB. I mix the instruments in biab, add very little reverb and export the wav. While I have RealBand and Logic Pro, I don't really use them. I believe I could do a better job. I'm just not sure where to start. Today I became aware of MP3gain on this forum. Ever the inquisitive type, I exported a few BIAB arrangements to mp3 and found every one had some clipping in it. I used MP3gain to "correct" this. While the volume was lower I did think the quality had improved when compared to the original .wav I created previously. So my question is what few tips/tricks might I start with to improve the quality of my tracks. Mostly they are bass & drums often with a rhythm keyboard or guitar. Thanks in advance for some direction. biab2025(Mac) Latest Build Mac OS (Latest) Apple Mac Mini M2 pro 32GB Ram Logic Pro 11.2.2 Irwin Vice Grip Fencing Pliers

Re: Mixing,Mastering,Post Production.....what's a guy to do??? mrgeeze #538337 05/26/19 09:57 PM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Dec 2016 Posts: 1,173 Gold Coast, Queensland, Austra... Teunis Expert
Teunis Expert Joined: Dec 2016 Posts: 1,173 Gold Coast, Queensland, Austra...	Part of a quote Originally Posted By: mrgeeze Today I became aware of MP3gain on this forum. Ever the inquisitive type, I exported a few BIAB arrangements to mp3 and found every one had some clipping in it. I used MP3gain to "correct" this. While the volume was lower I did think the quality had improved when compared to the original .wav I created previously. So my question is what few tips/tricks might I start with to improve the quality of my tracks. Mostly they are bass & drums often with a rhythm keyboard or guitar. Thanks in advance for some direction. Ok for a start I am thinking when you first put the MP3 into MP3gain it wants to lift the level of your file by a few DB or your files are already close to 0 db. MP3gain will indicate clipping if you have a file set at say -1.3 dB below 0 dB but have the overall level set a bit low. (Or it does for me as I usually put the stuff through a limiter first.). Maybe you could try something like ensuring the levels are about where they should be. I for example set my .wav file for a max peak dB level of -1.3 dB then I put it through a LUFS meter and look for close to -14 dB to -16 dB. This gets me close to MP3gain not having to lift the levels. If I went to a level of -19 dB it would try a lift the signal by 2 dB anything that was close to the -1.3 dB would then be lifted over 0 dB so show up as a clip. (Usually a snare hit and you would probably not notice in the end result). If you are setting your .wav file at 0 dB or close once again there would most likely be clipping when put to MP3. Most of the .wav files coming out of BIAB are fairly hot (close to 0). You could try pulling the file into something like Audacity and ensure the file is not too close to 0 dB. (Use Amplify option to reduce the file or maybe Normalize to -1.5 or so dB. Then convert to MP3. Better still would be to run your file though a limiter and drop the levels that way. If you give yourself some headroom in the limiter (set the max true peak to -1.3 or a little less) you should get shy of the issue. Hope this helps. I use Izotope Ozone to get my tracks ready so it all becomes easy. Although there are many free VSTs that will give similar results but you’d need a DAW of some kind. That is my method. Tony HP i7-4770 16GB 1TB SSD, Win 10 Home, Focusrite 2i2 3rd Gen, Launchkey 61, Maton CW80, Telecaster, Ovation Elite TX, Yamaha Pacifica 612 BB 2022(912) RB 2022(2), CakeWalk, Reaper 6, Audacity, Melodyne 5 Editor, Izotope Music Production Suite 4.1

Re: Mixing,Mastering,Post Production.....what's a guy to do??? mrgeeze #538365 05/27/19 03:42 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 23,540 Hamlin NY MarioD Veteran
MarioD Veteran Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 23,540 Hamlin NY	I suggest you subscribe to the recording revolution: https://www.recordingrevolution.com/ This is free. Graham gives excellent advice on exactly what you are asking via a weekly blog. He also has a lot of free guides that you can download that explains a lot of what he is teaching. He sure has helped me. PS - also load a song in the users showcase and ask for constructive criticism. The folks here also give friendly excellent advice. The fitness trainer asked me, "What kind of a squat are you accustomed to doing?" I said, "Diddly." 64 bit Win 11 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware

Re: Mixing,Mastering,Post Production.....what's a guy to do??? Teunis #538382 05/27/19 05:01 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Jan 2010 Posts: 862 Sonoran Desert mrgeeze OP Expert
OP mrgeeze Expert Joined: Jan 2010 Posts: 862 Sonoran Desert	Teunis, It appears my .wav files were too hot. They all had some clipping where mp3gain wished to reduce the overall value. I had mp3gain set to the default (89.0 db) for the analysis. I'm thinking at this point I should load some biab arrangements (say one of my sets), adjust the mix in biab to a lower level, output the mp3's the set into a folder and then let mp3gain adjust them all to the same gain. I do have a problem with my sets in that some backing tracks are noticeably louder than others. It would seem this effort would correct it. I will be switching over from .wav to .mp3. I assume I should output normalized,mono at 320kbps. I use mono tracks as my amplification is a single speaker. Thanks biab2025(Mac) Latest Build Mac OS (Latest) Apple Mac Mini M2 pro 32GB Ram Logic Pro 11.2.2 Irwin Vice Grip Fencing Pliers

Re: Mixing,Mastering,Post Production.....what's a guy to do??? mrgeeze #538448 05/27/19 11:52 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Dec 2016 Posts: 1,173 Gold Coast, Queensland, Austra... Teunis Expert
Teunis Expert Joined: Dec 2016 Posts: 1,173 Gold Coast, Queensland, Austra...	In another post you mention you have Logic Pro X, I would be inclined to export the BIAB files as individual .wav files and pull them into Logic Pro. Then normalise the individual tracks to something like -12 dB then set each EQ, and maybe Compression. Then on the output track run the song through overall EQ and Compression, then finally through a Limiter. If you feel you need it use something to check your overall Tonal Balance (Voxengo Span or Melda analyser). Use a LUFS meter at the end set the average to about -14 LUFS. (Youlean LUFS Meter). The products I mention you can get for free. Most likely Logic Pro has already got similar. Doing it this way you will find the results will be close to the same even before MP3gain. It all sounds difficult but it is not all that bad and is a lot of fun. IMHO. Tony Last edited by Teunis; 05/27/19 11:56 AM. HP i7-4770 16GB 1TB SSD, Win 10 Home, Focusrite 2i2 3rd Gen, Launchkey 61, Maton CW80, Telecaster, Ovation Elite TX, Yamaha Pacifica 612 BB 2022(912) RB 2022(2), CakeWalk, Reaper 6, Audacity, Melodyne 5 Editor, Izotope Music Production Suite 4.1

Re: Mixing,Mastering,Post Production.....what's a guy to do??? mrgeeze #538474 05/27/19 06:37 PM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Oct 2016 Posts: 1,591 Central Ohio E edshaw Expert
edshaw Expert E Joined: Oct 2016 Posts: 1,591 Central Ohio	I found NCH Switch audio file converter does a great job converting Band in a Box Wavs to MP3. I think it is still free for home use. Also, I agree with "Recording Revolution." Personally, I've let sound quality stay on the back burner until lately, in deference to the development of other skill sets. I'm just now getting serious about mastering. Hope you keep us informed as to how things are going. Last edited by edshaw; 05/28/19 04:14 PM. Link: www.soundcloud.com/ed_shaw (Feel Free to Use) https://www.Rumble.com/edshaw Biab for WIN 2020 -- Win 10 64bit -- Reaper/Audacity Zoom R-16 -- Tascam DP-03-SD -- SoundTap -- Crescendo --

Re: Mixing,Mastering,Post Production.....what's a guy to do??? edshaw #538501 05/28/19 01:14 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Jan 2010 Posts: 862 Sonoran Desert mrgeeze OP Expert
OP mrgeeze Expert Joined: Jan 2010 Posts: 862 Sonoran Desert	Teunis, Thanks for your feedback. I think your approach is a great skill building exercise. I am very much interested in gaining proficiency in Logic. But I am concerned about a more immediate problem. Currently I gig with 75-100 multi-track wav file song tracks created in biab. Every one I've exported and tested in Mp3Gain shows clipping in the analysis. I'm concerned that clipped waveforms are affecting the playback quality of my tracks. I know I have an issue with varying volumes between tracks. It would seem mp3gain alone would quickly help to improve my tracks Here's what I am thinking. Perform a quick output level adjust/reduce , re-mix (if necessary) in biab, export mp3, then treat with mp3gain. I could probably do the processing and re-load the songs into my performance software (Anytune Pro) in a day for 2-3 sets. This might buy me some quick improvement (eliminate clipping, adjust volume) in my tracks. I could be ready for my next gig (Friday). After that I can begin working the path you suggested with Logic Pro. I do think this approach would show some immediate improvement and be worth the effort. What do you think? Again, Thanks for your help biab2025(Mac) Latest Build Mac OS (Latest) Apple Mac Mini M2 pro 32GB Ram Logic Pro 11.2.2 Irwin Vice Grip Fencing Pliers

Re: Mixing,Mastering,Post Production.....what's a guy to do??? edshaw #538502 05/28/19 01:15 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Jan 2010 Posts: 862 Sonoran Desert mrgeeze OP Expert
OP mrgeeze Expert Joined: Jan 2010 Posts: 862 Sonoran Desert	edshaw, What advantage does the NCH mp3 conversion have over simply exporting the mp3 file directly from biab? thanks biab2025(Mac) Latest Build Mac OS (Latest) Apple Mac Mini M2 pro 32GB Ram Logic Pro 11.2.2 Irwin Vice Grip Fencing Pliers

Re: Mixing,Mastering,Post Production.....what's a guy to do??? mrgeeze #538513 05/28/19 03:17 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 10,484 Middlesex, NC Guitarhacker Veteran
Guitarhacker Veteran Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 10,484 Middlesex, NC	Originally Posted By: mrgeeze edshaw, What advantage does the NCH mp3 conversion have over simply exporting the mp3 file directly from biab? thanks Personally, I have never exported anything other than waves from BB/RB. I use NCH for a few reasons. The assumption that the song is in a finished wave format. I use NCH to do the following things. 1. I use Normalize to bump the levels a bit. This is usually my last step before I convert to MP3. This is the easy way to get consistently good levels of audio. 2. I trim the silence at the start and the end. This shortens the playing length a bit. No listening to silence or count in. 3. I add 500ms of silence at the start. Half a second. So you have a very slight pause when you hit play before the music starts. 4. I use it to convert to MP3. It allows me to select the bit rate based on the website platform requirements. Some have a 10MB max and if I use my preferred 320kbs rate, it's over the 10MB limit so I can downsize the bit rate to get it under the max limit. 5. It has a fairly nice and convenient music player. 6. It has a number of other features... even in the free limited version that I rarely ever use but have if it's needed. You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.com Add nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.

Re: Mixing,Mastering,Post Production.....what's a guy to do??? mrgeeze #538564 05/28/19 08:49 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Jun 2005 Posts: 7,693 Redondo Beach, Ca. jazzmammal Veteran
jazzmammal Veteran Joined: Jun 2005 Posts: 7,693 Redondo Beach, Ca.	Mrgeeze, in your other thread I mentioned using stereo files. Here's why: I understand most PA's are mono but that's not what I'm talking about. Having a L+R stereo file allows you with a small separate mixer to adjust the levels of both sides BEFORE they go into your PA. I would start with just the bass on one side and everything else on the other. This is the lazy mans version of using multitracks on a gig. The bass is usually the biggest problem because of different acoustics in various venues. Your tracks can sound awesome at home yet at the gig the bass is booming or, maybe it too thin. Adjusting the EQ on the PA will help but not as much as having the bass in it's own channel on a mixer with EQ control before it hits the PA. Most inexpensive two channel mixers don't have tone controls so you'll probably need an 8 channel one but that's easy enough to check online. For me I wound up putting the drums and bass in one channel because I found cymbals can be annoyingly loud in some cases and turning down the highs for the cymbals doesn't affect the bass much and if the bass guitar is booming so is the kick. The other trick I mentioned is set up your PA in your house and mix your tracks that way. That will also get you closer to how it sounds on a gig. Bob Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.

Re: Mixing,Mastering,Post Production.....what's a guy to do??? mrgeeze #538587 05/28/19 11:32 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Jan 2010 Posts: 862 Sonoran Desert mrgeeze OP Expert
OP mrgeeze Expert Joined: Jan 2010 Posts: 862 Sonoran Desert	jazzmammal, i get what you're saying re the mixer. I too think I would put drums and bass on one side and everything else the other. I like your quick fix on the cymbals by tweaking the eq. Brilliant! I'm expecting to upgrade my PA soon (most likely the EV Evolve 50 line array). I don't expressly need a mixer for gigging immediately with the Evolve but if I add a singer/guitar player, it will be necessary. I've lucked into some gigs lately so I have a small jingle in the pocket. I can probably include it in the purchase. I am interested in working with a digital mixer. I did some cursory review and found the Behringer XR12 digital mixer. Looks like it could handle all my mixing requirements now and into the future. Additionally it can record 2 tracks (1 for my backing tracks, 1 for my guitar). Pretty amazing for only $300. Any experience with digital mixers? Thanks, Geeze. biab2025(Mac) Latest Build Mac OS (Latest) Apple Mac Mini M2 pro 32GB Ram Logic Pro 11.2.2 Irwin Vice Grip Fencing Pliers

Re: Mixing,Mastering,Post Production.....what's a guy to do??? mrgeeze #538608 05/28/19 02:59 PM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Dec 2016 Posts: 1,173 Gold Coast, Queensland, Austra... Teunis Expert
Teunis Expert Joined: Dec 2016 Posts: 1,173 Gold Coast, Queensland, Austra...	Mixing in stereo probably does have some advantages when it comes to Tonal balance in a mono environment. For example, the high end of drums in a wide stereo sound much more crisp. Even when mixing in stereo one should also check the mix in mono to ensure not too much is lost. Mrgeeze I think even if playing back in mono use your Logic Pro to mix each channel include some panning as well as level adjustments. Then listen in mono to see you have the sound you want. Logic Pro will most likely have a button to test mono/stereo. It will not take all that long to master. (I’m lucky my little PA is stereo so I have the backing sound coming from across the stage. Even then I still need a fair mono mix as not everybody is in the ideal stereo listening position.) I think the best tool for getting overall levels close is a LUFS meter. This will show the average volumes for each song. Personally I do that then convert 320kbs MP3 then as a final check run them through MP3gain just to be sure. Usually MP3gain does nothing to the files as the files coming from the LUFS meter are pretty much the same overall level. However there is still the odd song that seems louder or quieter but that is more just a feeling. A really calm ballad seems too loud and a heavier rocker seems too quiet but they are the same overall level. Because I am going to convert to MP3 I set my limiter to a true peak level of -1.3 dB. The actual limiter does very little “limiting” in my case as most of my stuff is country/easy listening (if listening to me could be easy) so I really have only drums (snare and kick) and maybe the odd bass note getting compressed by the limiter. The true peak level of -1.3 dB pretty much stops clipping when using MP3 at 320kbs. Tony Last edited by Teunis; 05/28/19 05:59 PM. HP i7-4770 16GB 1TB SSD, Win 10 Home, Focusrite 2i2 3rd Gen, Launchkey 61, Maton CW80, Telecaster, Ovation Elite TX, Yamaha Pacifica 612 BB 2022(912) RB 2022(2), CakeWalk, Reaper 6, Audacity, Melodyne 5 Editor, Izotope Music Production Suite 4.1

Re: Mixing,Mastering,Post Production.....what's a guy to do??? mrgeeze #538613 05/28/19 04:53 PM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Oct 2016 Posts: 1,591 Central Ohio E edshaw Expert
edshaw Expert E Joined: Oct 2016 Posts: 1,591 Central Ohio	Originally Posted By: mrgeeze edshaw, What advantage does the NCH mp3 conversion have over simply exporting the mp3 file directly from biab? thanks A couple of things. First, it gives you a set of WAV files of the the highest available quality of the original mixed backing track and its components. These go into their own sub folder of the main project folder, one for each song. Yes, you can export in MP3 format if you want. But here is why I prefer to convert: the fewer variables in your work flow, the better. The audio converter asks, 1) what is the input file? (WAV) 2) What is the output (MP3, AIFF, or other) 3)What is the quality MP3 you want? (low, med, best?) Bitrate? Do the conversions, file them, and put that folder into the main project folder. Now you have a main project folder with two subs -- WAVs and MP3's. You are not going to get confused down the road. Say your BB backing track is exceptional. You take it to a lab for mastering or to recording studio. You going to give them an MP3? Of course not, not if you have a WAV. There are reasons for using MP3's. One, upload and transfer time. My original BB WAV mixdown tends to be 80-120 Mb. Converted to MP3, under 10Mb. This also can saves work on any SD cards that might come into play, such as an iPod or Walkman , though I think they have built in converters.. For those who use the DAW, I don't know. If your computer can handle it, then not a problem. But my 8 track deck takes 16G, 32G SD's and they can fill up. I think I mentioned, I have been recording directly from the Band in a Box interface into the recorder. That is because I have found the quality of sound coming out of that little mixer on the BB interface to be top quality. If I want to tweak it, mix it down or master it, I the recorder has that capability. I just run a line out from the computer headphone jack into the recorder line in and ride the levels. There is no decision there -- the recorder records everything as WAV. Funny thing, I can drag and MP3 into the SD card and it stores as a WAv. Sounds all right. But I'd rather record the old way, by hand. These are some ideas I am throwing out for consideration. I am far from competent in post production. Add the fact I work with an eight track digital recorder, my thoughts may be useless to most here. Still, I don't nthink it makes too much sense to put a lot of post production effort into songs in MP3. Last edited by edshaw; 05/29/19 01:17 AM. Link: www.soundcloud.com/ed_shaw (Feel Free to Use) https://www.Rumble.com/edshaw Biab for WIN 2020 -- Win 10 64bit -- Reaper/Audacity Zoom R-16 -- Tascam DP-03-SD -- SoundTap -- Crescendo --

Re: Mixing,Mastering,Post Production.....what's a guy to do??? mrgeeze #538633 05/29/19 01:47 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Jan 2010 Posts: 862 Sonoran Desert mrgeeze OP Expert
OP mrgeeze Expert Joined: Jan 2010 Posts: 862 Sonoran Desert	I think I am best served taking the longer path and working with a DAW. I will use Logic Pro X I watched a video on LogicProX of both the Loudness meter (LUFS) and a limiter built into the product. I understand better how to use these tools together to obtain a target output volume. I will start by taking an arrangement in biab, doing a basic volume mix, export each track as single wav files, load into Logic and begin my work. Very basic questions regarding biab mixer to produce the best wav files for Logic I'm concerned about saturating (clipping) the tracks with high volume. It appears I have that problem with my existing tracks. What "loudness" should I shoot for on each track? How far into Yellow/Red should I let each meter get on the individual tracks What about Master out? Should master out be where I manage "target" wav volume? Should I normalize my wav files inside biab? Should I include ACID info ? Should I take dry tracks or put a little reverb inside biab. I will do any track panning in Logic. I think my target output will be stereo wav files. I can play these out the ipad/iphone and with a direct box split the stereo into 2 channels. that gives me panning volume control for bass/drums during peformance as JazzMammal suggested. I'm glad I have plenty of disk space. To all who have helped, sincerest thanks. biab2025(Mac) Latest Build Mac OS (Latest) Apple Mac Mini M2 pro 32GB Ram Logic Pro 11.2.2 Irwin Vice Grip Fencing Pliers

Re: Mixing,Mastering,Post Production.....what's a guy to do??? mrgeeze #538656 05/29/19 05:00 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Apr 2013 Posts: 8,694 South Carolina C Charlie Fogle Veteran
Charlie Fogle Veteran C Joined: Apr 2013 Posts: 8,694 South Carolina	<<< I am interested in working with a digital mixer. I did some cursory review and found the Behringer XR12 digital mixer. Looks like it could handle all my mixing requirements now and into the future. Additionally it can record 2 tracks (1 for my backing tracks, 1 for my guitar). Pretty amazing for only $300. Any experience with digital mixers? >> Yes... Yes. The Behringer XR series are excellent choices if you understand all that they offer in features. They are literally feature laden. Great if you understand mixing but can be a minefield if you don't. There is a bit of a learning curve. There are a lot of YouTube tutorials to help you learn and once you have even a basic understanding they are truly amazing units for the cost. Similar to the BIAB program software, all of the Behringer XR and X series share a similar core of the operating software and each are modified to accommodate the unit's inputs/outputs and routing for the most part. The operating software is based off of Behringer's flagship digital mixer, the X32. Once you've learned to operate one of the units, you can navigate your way around any of the series. Add an accessory such as the Behringer X-touch and even the base XR12 unit will be a very capable equivalent to much costlier digital stand alone mixers like a Presonus 16.0.2. Pros to the XR series is the unit works as a stage box while the operator remotely controls the unit from an Ipad, Android, X-touch or computer. There are no control knobs on the device for someone to inadvertently get the mixer settings fouled up. A stereo mix of the gig can be recorded onto a thumb drive. The unit has the features to provide great sound in nearly any environment. The unit is small, lite and set up is fast and easy. The unit can be programmed ahead of time, scenes saved for future use if you play the same venue or similar. There is a lot of document, tutorial and video available to quickly learn how to operate the device and learn all the features and what they are and do. Cons are that to control the device wirelessly at a gig will almost certainly require the addition of a separate and external router. You are likely purchasing features you will never need or use. There are a lot of menu pages and navigation that are not an issue once you are familiar with the device but can be quite troublesome until you are comfortable with the unit. It is essentially a computer system that can crash unexpectedly just as any computer system is subject to. Communication between the device and remote can be tricky to set up and to maintain a solid connection. You may be at a gig and have to constantly reboot your wireless connection between the device and Ipad/Android Remote. You have no control over the device if you lose your wireless connection.... Your personal setup may require separate devices to playback your tracks and remotely control the device. More stuff to set up and break down. If your budget allows, the Behringer XR18 is so much worth the additional $200US cost for the additional input/outputs and routing features that become available as well as the 18/18 USB audio interface it has. If your budget allows the $500 range, you should also consider actual digital, digital hybrid mixers in that cost range. I specifically recommend the Zoom Livetrack 12 or Soundcraft Signature 10 or Signature 12 mixers,the Presonus AR mixers or the Behringer/Mackie/Yamaha series mixers with USB and Effects. I recommend these mixers in the order I've listed them with the Zoom as the unit I would prefer first. From the way I interpret your gig setup, I think you will get the most bang for your dollar and the most satisfaction from a mixer like the Zoom over any of the Behringer XR devices. BIAB 2025:RB 2025, Latest builds: Dell Optiplex 7040 Desktop; Windows-10-64 bit, Intel Core i7-6700 3.4GHz CPU and 16 GB Ram Memory.

Re: Mixing,Mastering,Post Production.....what's a guy to do??? mrgeeze #538720 05/29/19 01:05 PM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Dec 2016 Posts: 1,173 Gold Coast, Queensland, Austra... Teunis Expert
Teunis Expert Joined: Dec 2016 Posts: 1,173 Gold Coast, Queensland, Austra...	Mrgeeze wrote >> I'm concerned about saturating (clipping) the tracks with high volume. It appears I have that problem with my existing tracks. What "loudness" should I shoot for on each track? How far into Yellow/Red should I let each meter get on the individual tracks What about Master out? Should master out be where I manage "target" wav volume? Should I normalize my wav files inside biab? Should I include ACID info ? Should I take dry tracks or put a little reverb inside biab. I will do any track panning in Logic.<< What I do is set all to the same volume, center and flat in BIAB. Right click on the Master button in BIAB the option is there. I then leave the Normalize option in saving the wav in BIAB export area on as all tracks then come into the DAW even. I then export as individual tracks. Do not use the Acid info unless you need it. Reverb is gone with the Master option above. Add it in the DAW if I want it. I create a new folder for each song. I select the tracks I want and pull them into my DAW and “Normalise” the tracks to -12 dB (I would think Logic Pro would have that option. You could just pull down the volume to achieve similar.) Note, there is a composite track of the whole song that I do not add to the DAW. I also colour code my tracks to make things easier to follow. (I use the same colour code on every song. Say blue for drums, orange for bass, green for guitars, yellow for pedal steel, pink piano ...) this makes recognition much easier. Then I play through the song and set markers for the areas. This makes the task of adjusting areas simpler. For example turning down an instrument during a verse, hitting harder in the instrumental etc. Whilst this all looks a lot of work it takes less than 10 mins once you have the song in BIAB ready. Then I go through the mix process. Set the track levels, panning, Compression, eq. Set the automation for things such as the volumes discussed above. After the mix process is complete the overall level will still be low. Maybe -8 or so dB. It is then I go to the “mastering” process. This involves setting the overall tone (using an analyser such as SPAN but using ears also) maybe reverb but lastly using a limiter to lift the overall level of the track. I lift it to under -1.3 dB and I set the overall level to about -14 LUFS using the LUFS meter as a guide. The reason for -14 LUFS is that is what Spotify wants and it is the middle of the LUFS ranges for various streaming services (not that I stream anything). Also once converted to MP3, MP3gain will not have to do much change on your track. (I use Reaper, in Reaper I set the 0 dB on the volume meter point to actually be -14 dB once again to make the process simpler. If I go over -14 dB the volume goes into the Red. 0 dB really -14 dB in my implementation of Reaper.) Then I render. Listen to the track in a couple of environments. When happy I set it up on my “performance laptop”. All sounds a lot of work, sometimes it only takes minutes, sometimes days. But you soon get what you want. I have done a track from start i.e. finding the style in BIAB, entering the chords, exporting the song, putting it through the procedures above in under 4 hours easy. I did know what I wanted with the song. I find often the most time consuming part is to come up with the style I want. Then maybe changing the odd instrument within the style. That is the entire process for me. Tony Last edited by Teunis; 05/29/19 01:17 PM. HP i7-4770 16GB 1TB SSD, Win 10 Home, Focusrite 2i2 3rd Gen, Launchkey 61, Maton CW80, Telecaster, Ovation Elite TX, Yamaha Pacifica 612 BB 2022(912) RB 2022(2), CakeWalk, Reaper 6, Audacity, Melodyne 5 Editor, Izotope Music Production Suite 4.1

Re: Mixing,Mastering,Post Production.....what's a guy to do??? mrgeeze #538794 05/30/19 04:24 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 10,484 Middlesex, NC Guitarhacker Veteran
Guitarhacker Veteran Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 10,484 Middlesex, NC	Should I this? Should I that? Hummmmm I don't know. Should you? This is art. There are no hard fast rules. You do what sounds good to you and hope others like it too. It might take you years of experimenting to find out what works best for you. I know it did for me and I'm still learning things every time I turn on the DAW to record. What I try to achieve. I use Sonar as my DAW so you know. All references are in relation to that DAW. I like the tracks to be full. Not weak, thin, or straight lines.... and on the other hand.... not clipping and certainly not bricked. anything in the area of 50% to 80% is where I aim to have the waves. This is from the visual observation of the track in my track view mode. If it's inside that window I can make it work well in a final mix. Speaking of bricked...... I try to keep all my tracks under the point of clipping on the output side. This is generally a function of how high I run the compression levels INSIDE the master buss. A little bit of slamming the ceiling is OK (IMHO) but when it looks like a solid brick.... nope.... go back and fix that compression rate. Let it breathe. Have I use normalize on a weak track? yep. In the early days I tended to get a lot of thin line tracks. I've learned how to record solid tracks. Effects on the tracks. Sometimes yes, mostly no. I will use FX in the effects bin but if I have several guitars, or several vocals, I will set up a buss and route them to the buss and put the FX there. Drums and bass are the exceptions. they get FX in the track bin. I never apply the FX to the tracks so that it's written into the bits. In the FX bin I can change it or shut it off. Remember, that verb is cumulative so if you have verb in the master, and you have verb in the buss.... be careful because it's all adding up to become a mess of reverb. Often my tracks are all dry. I use very light verb in the buss and in the master. Guitar is another exception sometimes. I don't record dry clean guitar.... it's recorded like I want it to sound from the start. I start my mixing... let me back up... I start my recording with the end in mind. So I'm essentially mixing as I go. Compression and verb are set as defaults in the master. I tweek them as needed as I move along. I set up sub-busses as needed. This allows me to hear what the result of adding a track or an FX has on the overall mix instantly. It's been a learning process. I'd suggest getting some projects....with waves...from one of the several sites online that has tracks bundled for you to download and mix. Mixing someone else's tracks, especially when they are solidly recorded, is a GREAT way to get experience. If you're having issues getting solid, well recorded tracks, this is a great way to get them. I can't imagine anyone who has BB & RB having any issues though, with getting well recorded tracks. Anyway.... it's art.... so enjoy. Last edited by Guitarhacker; 05/30/19 04:28 AM. You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.com Add nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.

Re: Mixing,Mastering,Post Production.....what's a guy to do??? mrgeeze #538934 05/31/19 09:15 AM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Jan 2010 Posts: 862 Sonoran Desert mrgeeze OP Expert
OP mrgeeze Expert Joined: Jan 2010 Posts: 862 Sonoran Desert	So, I remixed an arrangement for 1 of my tunes in biab. Exported individual wav files and created a logic pro x project recorded my guitar to play the melody used the lufs meter and a limiter to control output volume posted the work at the following link. https://soundcloud.com/bob-bauer-608449014/angeldelmar Appreciate your comments/feedback Thanks biab2025(Mac) Latest Build Mac OS (Latest) Apple Mac Mini M2 pro 32GB Ram Logic Pro 11.2.2 Irwin Vice Grip Fencing Pliers

Re: Mixing,Mastering,Post Production.....what's a guy to do??? mrgeeze #538965 05/31/19 12:17 PM Recording, Mixing, Performance and Production
Joined: Dec 2016 Posts: 1,173 Gold Coast, Queensland, Austra... Teunis Expert
Teunis Expert Joined: Dec 2016 Posts: 1,173 Gold Coast, Queensland, Austra...	Originally Posted By: mrgeeze So, I remixed an arrangement for 1 of my tunes in biab. Exported individual wav files and created a logic pro x project recorded my guitar to play the melody used the lufs meter and a limiter to control output volume posted the work at the following link. https://soundcloud.com/bob-bauer-608449014/angeldelmar Appreciate your comments/feedback Thanks Very nice, clean mix on a well played tune. I like the way the percussion instruments are panned, Spreads the sound. Well done. Tony HP i7-4770 16GB 1TB SSD, Win 10 Home, Focusrite 2i2 3rd Gen, Launchkey 61, Maton CW80, Telecaster, Ovation Elite TX, Yamaha Pacifica 612 BB 2022(912) RB 2022(2), CakeWalk, Reaper 6, Audacity, Melodyne 5 Editor, Izotope Music Production Suite 4.1

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August 22, 2025

XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs Special Extended Until August 31st!

XPro & Xtra Styles PAKs Special Extended Until August 31st!

The XPro Styles PAKs and Xtra Styles PAKs special offers are now available until August 31st at 11:59pm PDT!

Ready to take your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 experience to the next level? Now’s the perfect time! Expand your style library with XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs—packed with a wide variety of genres to inspire your next musical creation.

What are XPro Styles and Xtra Styles PAKs?

XPro Styles PAKs are styles that work with any version (Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition) of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). XPro Styles PAKS 1-9 includes 900 styles!

Xtra Styles PAKs are styles that work with the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). With over 3,500 styles (and 35 MIDI styles) included in Xtra Styles PAKs 1-20, the possibilities are endless!

Get the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Listen to demos and order now! For Windows or for Mac.

Note: XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.

Get Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 19 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Listen to demos and order now! For Windows or for Mac.

Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 19 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.

Don’t miss this chance to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box setup—at a great price!

August 06, 2025

Mac 2025 Special Upgrade Offers Extended Until August 15th!

It's not too late to upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® and save! We've extended our special until August 15, 2025!

We've added many major new features to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®, including advanced AI tools like the amazing BB Stem Splitter and AI Lyrics Generator, as well as VST3 plugin support, and Equalize Temp. Plus, there’s a new one-stop MIDI Patches Picker with over 1,100 MIDI patches to choose from, all neatly categorized by GM numbers. The MultiPicker Library is enhanced with tabs for the SongPicker, MIDI Patch Picker, Chord Builder, AI Lyrics Generator, and Song Titles Browser, and the tabs are organized into logical groups. The Audiophile Edition is enhanced with FLAC files , which are 60% smaller than AIFF files while maintaining identical audio quality, and now ships on a fast 1TB SSD, and much more!

Check out all the new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® here:

Purchase your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac during our special to save up to 50% off your upgrade purchase and receive a FREE BONUS PAK of amazing new Add-ons. These include the 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK, Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana, Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes, MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano, Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7, Playable RealTracks Set 4, RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark, and more!

Upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and add 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and 20 RealStyles, FLAC Files for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks, Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster, MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster, Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8, and RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe.
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs!

July 27, 2025

New RealTracks Released with Band-in-a-Box 2025!

We’ve expanded the Band-in-a-Box® RealTracks library with 202 incredible new RealTracks (in sets 449-467) across Jazz, Blues, Funk, World, Pop, Rock, Country, Americana, and Praise & Worship—featuring your most requested styles!

Jazz, Blues & World (Sets 449–455):
These RealTracks includes “Soul Jazz” with Neil Swainson (bass), Mike Clark (drums), Charles Treadway (organ), Miles Black (piano), and Brent Mason (guitar). Enjoy “Requested ’60s” jazz, classic acoustic blues with Colin Linden, and more of our popular 2-handed piano soloing. Plus, a RealTracks first—Tango with bandoneon, recorded in Argentina!

Rock & Pop (Sets 456–461):
This collection includes Disco, slap bass ‘70s/‘80s pop, modern and ‘80s metal with Andy Wood, and a unique “Songwriter Potpourri” featuring Chinese folk instruments, piano, banjo, and more. You’ll also find a muted electric guitar style (a RealTracks first!) and “Producer Layered Guitar” styles for slick "produced" sound.

Country, Americana & Praise (Sets 462–467):
We’ve added new RealTracks across bro country, Americana, praise & worship, vintage country, and songwriter piano. Highlights include Brent Mason (electric guitar), Eddie Bayers (drums), Doug Jernigan (pedal steel), John Jarvis (piano), Glen Duncan (banjo, mandolin & fiddle), Mike Harrison (electric bass) and more—offering everything from modern sounds to heartfelt Americana styles

Check out all the 202 New RealTracks (in sets 456-467)

And, if you are looking for more, the 2025 49-PAK (for $49) includes an additional 20 RealTracks with exciting new sounds and genre-spanning styles. Enjoy RealTracks firsts like Chinese instruments (guzheng & dizi), the bandoneon in an authentic Argentine tango trio, and the classic “tic-tac” baritone guitar for vintage country.

You’ll also get slick ’80s metal guitar from Andy Wood, modern metal with guitarist Nico Santora, bass player Nick Schendzielos, and drummer Aaron Stechauner, more praise & worship, indie-folk, modern/bro country with Brent Mason, and “Songwriter Americana” with Johnny Hiland.

Plus, enjoy user-requested styles like Soul Jazz RealDrums, fast Celtic Strathspey guitar, and Chill Hop piano & drums!

The 2025 49-PAK is loaded with other great new add-ons as well. Learn more about the 2025 49-PAK!

July 23, 2025

Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box 2025 for Mac!

With your version 2025 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons FREE! Or upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!

These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!

This Free Bonus PAK includes:

The 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK: -For Pro customers, this includes 33 new RealTracks and 65+ new RealStyles. -For MegaPAK customers, this includes 29 new RealTracks and 45+ new RealStyles. -For UltraPAK customers, this includes 20 new RealStyles.
Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana
Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes
MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano
Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7
Playable RealTracks Set 4
RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark
SynthMaster Sounds and Styles (with audio demos)
128 GM MIDI Patch Audio Demos.

Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:

20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyles,
FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster,
Instrumental Studies Set 23: More '80s Hard Rock Soloing,
MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster
Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8
RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe

Learn more about the Bonus PAKs for Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®!

July 21, 2025

New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Mac!

Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!

We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!

In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!

All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!

Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.

Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!

Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.

July 21, 2025

New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Mac!

We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!

We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!

If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!

Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!

Learn more and listen to demos of XPro Styles PAKs.

Video: XPro Styles PAK 9 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!

XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.

July 21, 2025

New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!

Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!

All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!

Learn more and listen to demos of the Xtra Styles PAK 20.

Video: Xtra Styles PAK 20 Overview & Styles Demos: Watch now!

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