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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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HI ALL
I seem to have a problem with any Realstyle organ sounds /tracks they are slightly distorted and have an unpleasant sort of phased effect that chops into the sound.
I have tried many sets, Eg. 689 organ b3 background pop even 805 (Gene Rabbai) I solo the track but it beats me all other tracks in the same style are fine ( _ELC0085 )
Using a midi style and organs from my Yamaha XG lite vst are fine.
Any thoughts?
Mike
BIAB2021 UltraPlus,AsusN55S1Tbssd, W10/64,Akai EIEpro Yamaha CVP405,SquireStrat, CoolsoftVMidSynth Novatation Impulse61 Ctr kbd, Cwalk blab Kontakt http://mikesmusic.byethost16.com/
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Mike,
The RealTracks is part of RealTracks Set 47 : Slow and Fast Pop. I would go to my PG Music online account, download "RealTracks Sets 44-49 (Windows)", delete the existing RealTracks, reboot Windows to clear ram and cache , install "RealTracks Sets 44-49 (Windows)" and try again. My guess is the wma file or one of the associated files inside the folder has become corrupt.
Jim Fogle - 2025 BiaB (Build 1128) RB (Build 5) - Ultra+ PAK DAWs: Cakewalk Sonar - Standalone: Zoom MRS-8 Laptop: i3 Win 10, 8GB ram 500GB HDD Desktop: i7 Win 11, 12GB ram 256GB SSD, 4 TB HDD Music at: https://fogle622.wix.com/fogle622-audio-home
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Joined: Dec 2015
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Thanks Jim Yes tried that thanks unfortunately no improvement. I must say none of the realtrack organs sound good and I have tried quite a few different ones using the (_PILLOWY DREAMY POP BALLAD) very disappointing, especially when solo.  The b3 organs are the worst, but the others also are not usable in that style. Looks like I will have to go back to my old faithful midi! Thanks Mike
BIAB2021 UltraPlus,AsusN55S1Tbssd, W10/64,Akai EIEpro Yamaha CVP405,SquireStrat, CoolsoftVMidSynth Novatation Impulse61 Ctr kbd, Cwalk blab Kontakt http://mikesmusic.byethost16.com/
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Band-in-a-Box for Windows
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Hi Mike, When I listen to the style in BIAB, I suspect that the phase effect you are hearing is most likely due to the Leslie speaker effect. The Leslie speaker is a rotating speaker and a signature sound of Hammond organs. This has two speeds... fast and slow. When I solo'd the organ track (#689), I could clearly hear these two speeds. I've noticed that when organ tracks are assembled by BIAB, a mixture of fast and slow Leslie sounds are pieced together. In reality a performer would not change speeds as often as the Realtracks do. When I played the B3, and other Hammond models, I tended to use mostly slow-speed Leslie and if I needed a bit more energy in a section, I'd go for the fast speed. Also, in relation to the distortion, to me this sounds like a significant number of non-harmonic drawbars have been pulled out into the sound. This is another feature of Hammond that gave a signature sound to the B3. Using vacuum tube technology also introduced an element of distortion (if I recall correctly). It's been a few decades since I last sat at a B3! My experience is that when mixed into a backing track, the fast and slow Leslie variations don't usually matter too much to most mixes other than to give the backing a feeling of movement and space in a similar way to autopan. If you want to create a more controlled Hammond sound, where you can activate the rotating speaker and choose whether or not to use higher harmonic discordant drawbar sounds, I suggest using the notation from an organ Realtrack or MIDI Super track and assigning a Hammond organ VST to it. That should do the job. Here's a link to some free Hammond organ VSTs... https://blog.wavosaur.com/7-free-vsts-for-hammond-b3-emulation/For reference when using drawbars... the 16, 8, 4, 2, 1 foot sounds are octaves of one another. Combination of these set the pitch of the note. The 8 foot sound is standard pitch (that is, middle C played with an 8' sound is the same pitch as middle C on a piano). The factional footages are harmonics and they are used to colour the sounds' tones. Hope this helps, Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2025
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Hi Noel Thank you for your detailed answer , I normally quite like the B3 Leslie sound . But that sound from #689 is awful even allowing for mismatched draw bars. I have uploaded a render of a soloed organ track from the (_PILLOWY DREAMY POP BALLAD) . 1 6 2 5 1 in C 2bars of each, #689 is used in quite a few styles and always turns in bad results for me. Link to mp3 https://app.box.com/s/s29ctd293v4ql2x4n9q119b5wxagr2u7Mike
BIAB2021 UltraPlus,AsusN55S1Tbssd, W10/64,Akai EIEpro Yamaha CVP405,SquireStrat, CoolsoftVMidSynth Novatation Impulse61 Ctr kbd, Cwalk blab Kontakt http://mikesmusic.byethost16.com/
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Hi Mike,
Your recording plays exactly as I hear it when I use #689. I hear that as the way the artist (Gene Rabbai) has setup the instrument.
Regards,
Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2025
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Yep... I have noticed the phasey sound you refer to in a few places. However, the way I use the B3 tracks is always in the background and as such, they sound good. I have never used them in a solo way.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.comAdd nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
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FYI - this is why I use the Acoustic Samples B5 organ, a MIDI VSTi the emulates a number of different Hammond organs and leslies: https://www.acousticsamples.net/B5You can emulate virtually every B3 sound out there, including the clean ones. This comes with the free UVI player.
Whenever I get something stuck in the back of my throat, I dislodge it by drinking a beer.
It's called the Heineken Maneuver.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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Hi again
Thank you all for taking the time I guess I will just have to mute it when it pos up in a style without notation on the track for midi.
I can’t do distortion in my music.
Having spent a lot of life in the Hi Fi trade I don’t like distortion of any sort, even when done for effect, like so many Guitar sounds, but I love clean electric guitar of all flavours.
Don’t get me wrong I don’t mind effects that are musical like tremolo (vibrato) chorus etc, as long as they are musically appropriate.
Why would I spend thousands of Pounds (Dollars) on audio gear and monitor speakers, then deliberately introduce distortion, fuzz, cross modulation, and phase shift spent most of my time trying to prevent that from occurring!!
Thanks again for your thoughts
Mike
BIAB2021 UltraPlus,AsusN55S1Tbssd, W10/64,Akai EIEpro Yamaha CVP405,SquireStrat, CoolsoftVMidSynth Novatation Impulse61 Ctr kbd, Cwalk blab Kontakt http://mikesmusic.byethost16.com/
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Hi Mike,
I've just read your comments on using distortion/overdrive/saturation and you have paralleled what I used think exactly.
A few years ago now and much to my surprise, though, I found out that small amounts of discreetly used overdrive or saturation such as that produced by valves, etc., can add warmth to a mix if it's applied knowledgeably to a suitable instrument.
Noel
MY SONGS...Audiophile BIAB 2025
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....................
Why would I spend thousands of Pounds (Dollars) on audio gear and monitor speakers, then deliberately introduce distortion, fuzz, cross modulation, and phase shift spent most of my time trying to prevent that from occurring!!
Thanks again for your thoughts
Mike
I had a chuckle on this! I know a guy who spent a ton of money on hi-end audio equipment and speakers and all he played was heavy metal! WTF comes to mind!
Whenever I get something stuck in the back of my throat, I dislodge it by drinking a beer.
It's called the Heineken Maneuver.
64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware
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<...snip...>
Looks like I will have to go back to my old faithful midi!
<...>
This is what I like about MIDI. I have a couple of dozen organ sounds from various B3 sounds to the Farfisa and Vox things. We just learned "A Whiter Shade Of Pale" for a 50th class reunion party (it was requested). I found the perfect percussive B3 chorus sound for the A section and cross faded a Fast Leslie with a bit of grunge for the B section. For the lower B3 keyboard (left hand) I chose a similar sound to the A section but with less percussive effects and a mellower tone. Things like this cannot be done with Real Tracks, you can't change the sound you are given. If they are perfect for the song, it's good, if not you are better off with MIDI. Real or MIDI, I'll use whatever tool fits the song the best. Insights and incites by Notes
Bob "Notes" Norton  Norton Music
https://www.nortonmusic.com
100% MIDI Super-Styles recorded by live, pro, studio musicians for a live groove
& Fake Disks for MIDI and/or RealTracks
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This is a classic distorted B3, sounds great to me. This sound is a combination of an old well broken in Hammond console plus an overdriven Leslie. Leslies use tubes so if you know anything about tubes this is what they're used for to get that overdriven gritty sound. What a lot of non organ players don't realize is the distortion is controlled by the expression pedal. The more you push the pedal the more distortion you get. A lot of B3 clones don't do that but my SK1 does. If a player wants a cleaner sound they just turn down the input amp inside the Leslie. I can't get that good of a distortion out of the SK1 so if I want it bad enough I use my Ventilator pedal. It's a near perfect emulation of a Leslie 122 and has a killer overdrive in it.
The only problem with using VST emulators is you have to understand the organ well enough to voice the chords properly, use the Leslie properly and understand how to use an expression pedal. Just dialing in distortion as an effect won't cut it. An organist is working the expression pedal constantly. Mid range it's a touch of distortion, mash it it's almost Jon Lord time. If you can do that then yes these VST's are pretty good but if all you're doing is setting it up to play a midi file it won't sound right because it's unlikely the midi file has the correct expression settings linked to a distortion effect in it. You would need to strip out all the midi events having to do with distortion, the leslie effect, cabinet sims, expression and volume events and do all of those yourself while the the midi file is playing. You would route the audio from the original track to record it with all your input to a new track.
All this is why pro level organists go crazy picking apart B3 clones. Most have some of it right but leave out other bits. It all has to be there and work together properly in order to sound like a real B3 and Leslie. It's not easy.
Bob
Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.
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