This is a great video, and an awesome topic for discussion. I've always cherish vocal cadence (or vocal rhythm to the vocals) in music I love most. I know it isn't a particularly popular genre in the forums, but it's why I love hip hop and rap music. Rhythm in music in particular can make or break a song for me.
Interpol is one band I love that does this particularly well.
And a million others I can't immediately think of, but these 3 are in my heavily rotation at the moment so figured I'd share them.
And maybe that's part of the point. If you're hearing a commercially released song, it's because it got at least passing marks in vocal rhythm.. Listeners notice these things more when they are sub-optimal or lacking than when they are brilliant. Writers should have a more proactive view of this.
Those are really good, btw. I'd not heard any of them here in my cave. It's a bit hard to know how "right" the song in Russian was on all counts, but her vocal licks fell very nicely.
I'm with you on Rap and Hip Hop as it relates to this. At it's best, it's something to admire and even to emulate no matter the genre.
Glad you digged the tunes - the thing I like about hip hop and rap vocals, is it is vocals which depend entirely on the vocal cadence. I just find it an interesting concept. No other genre of music immediately comes to mind where rhythm plays such an important roll. Not for everybody, for sure, but neither is jazz or country.
It is cool to me that we all agree the cadence of a singer's vocals is important. And it's cool to me that hip hop music took that fact and cranked the meter to 100. The rhythms a lot of rappers portray in their vocal performance is very, very dense and complex. It's unfortunate a lot of big names don't represent the talent required, or show off the diversity that exists withinin the genre.
Rhythm is among my favourite qualities in music.
Originally Posted By: Tangmo
Originally Posted By: Deryk - PG Music
This is a great video, and an awesome topic for discussion. I've always cherish vocal cadence (or vocal rhythm to the vocals) in music I love most. I know it isn't a particularly popular genre in the forums, but it's why I love hip hop and rap music. Rhythm in music in particular can make or break a song for me.
Interpol is one band I love that does this particularly well.
And a million others I can't immediately think of, but these 3 are in my heavily rotation at the moment so figured I'd share them.
And maybe that's part of the point. If you're hearing a commercially released song, it's because it got at least passing marks in vocal rhythm.. Listeners notice these things more when they are sub-optimal or lacking than when they are brilliant. Writers should have a more proactive view of this.
Those are really good, btw. I'd not heard any of them here in my cave. It's a bit hard to know how "right" the song in Russian was on all counts, but her vocal licks fell very nicely.
I'm with you on Rap and Hip Hop as it relates to this. At it's best, it's something to admire and even to emulate no matter the genre.
Last edited by Deryk - PG Music; 05/30/1903:22 AM.
Another master of this technique is Jimmy Buffet. Once you listen for it, virtually everything they do showcases this talent: I Wish I Had a Pencil Thin Moustrache Another great example is the bawdy bar room ballad, "Why Don't We Get Drunk?" Also on You Tube. Then, of course, there is always this one: Its Five O'Clock Somewhere This would be an interesting tech topic to put to the engineers at PGM, wouldn't it?
Rhythm is so important! - It gives us so much information about the context of music.
There is an organ in Germany playing a piece loosely translated to "As slow as possible" that people gather to predict the next note... every 20 years or so. Quite fascinating really
Intonation or cadence in singing is the exact reproduction of sounds in pitch. Simply put, it is pure singing, without falseness, accurate hitting the notes. The correct cadence is the purity of the melody singing and the correct coordination of pitch hearing and voice. Accordingly, in songwriting, this skill is not so important. Not all composers can perform their compositions perfectly because they hone other skills. Of course, a Young Money artist Young Money artist does not need either the first or the second, only pathos and shared love. Although I understand that you are just talking about the importance of vocal cadence training.
Great song, great video, Floyd. Reminds me a bit of the version of "It's Five-O'Clock Somewhere" with and by Alan Jackson & Jimmy Buffet, filmed live in some bar in Florida. Similar feel to it. Jimmy Buffet is a master of siinging on the island beat, hey?
Glad you digged the tunes - the thing I like about hip hop and rap vocals, is it is vocals which depend entirely on the vocal cadence. I just find it an interesting concept. No other genre of music immediately comes to mind where rhythm plays such an important roll. Not for everybody, for sure, but neither is jazz or country.
It is cool to me that we all agree the cadence of a singer's vocals is important. And it's cool to me that hip hop music took that fact and cranked the meter to 100. The rhythms a lot of rappers portray in their vocal performance is very, very dense and complex. It's unfortunate a lot of big names don't represent the talent required, or show off the diversity that exists withinin the genre.
Rhythm is among my favourite qualities in music.
Hey Deryk, thanks for your inputs on hip hop and rap. I am just starting to become interested in these genres (coming from a background of rock, folk and country). What artists/albums/songs would you recommend as a decent introduction? I am familiar with Lose Yourself and love it! Also, hits like Old Town Road which I guess is kinda genre-bending! But I feel like I kinda missed out and wanna catch up a bit!
This is NOT about how great singers sing (and phrase a song). That's a different discussion.
It's about how a song is WRITTEN using what will be "vocal rhythm" to get a lyric across.
Really though, when you think about it, those two things are very closely related cousins.
Take the same song that was a hit for two different singers and they can phrase it differently. Take any of a bunch of Willie Nelson's songs as the example here.
Yep... it's very hard to get the phrasing and rhythmic feel of a lyric just from the written words. It's then up to the singer to interpret the song as they best see fit. If they have a demo, that makes life simpler.
Regarding the concept that the rhythm of the singing is an integral part of making the song what it is..... oh yes, absolutely.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.com Add nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both.
The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
One of the fundamentals of this, IMHO, is vocal meter, and it's a fundamental part of poetry. Songwriters should probably first and foremost be poets is some form.
I think it's actually quite helpful to conscientiously think about poetic meters for songs and lyrics. On of the things I find a little disappointing is where the meter is mangled to make the chosen words fit, rather than spending more time finding a words form that both says what one wants and has the appropriate meter. Meter is remarkably powerful, I think.
FWIW, it took me a little while, but I have learned to like at least some Rap, though usually where it has a jazz-fusion aspect.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11 BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software. Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts .
Introducing XPro Styles PAK 10 – Now Available for Windows Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 10 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 28 RealTracks and RealDrums!
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Introducing XPro Styles PAK 10 – Now Available for Mac Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 10 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 28 RealTracks and RealDrums!
Few things are certain in life: death, taxes, and a brand spankin’ new XPro Styles PAK! In this, the 10th edition of our XPro Styles PAK series, we’ve got 100 styles coming your way! We have the classic 25 styles each from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, and rounding out this volume's wildcard slot is 25 styles in the Praise & Worship genre! A wide spanning genre, you can find everything from rock, folk, country, and more underneath its umbrella. The included 28 RealTracks and RealDrums can be used with any Band-in-a-Box® 2026 (and higher) package.
Here’s just a small sampling of what you can look forward to in XPro Styles PAK 10: Soft indie folk worship songs, bumpin’ country boogies, gospel praise breaks, hard rockin’ pop, funky disco grooves, smooth Latin jazz pop, bossa nova fusion, western swing, alternative hip-hop, cool country funk, and much more!
Special offers until December 31st, 2025!
All the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 10 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Introducing Xtra Styles PAK 21 – Now Available for Mac Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher!
Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest Xtra Styles PAK installment—the all new Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher)!
Rejoice, one and all, for Xtra Styles PAK 21 for Band-in-a-Box® is here! We’re serving up 200 brand spankin’ new styles to delight your musical taste buds! The first three courses are the classics you’ve come to know and love, including offerings from the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres, but, not to be outdone, this year’s fourth course is bro country! A wide ranging genre, you can find everything from hip-hop, uptempo outlaw country, hard hitting rock, funk, and even electronica, all with that familiar bro country flair. The dinner bell has been rung, pickup up Xtra Styles PAK 21 today!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Energetic folk rock, raucous train beats, fast country boogies, acid jazz grooves, laid-back funky jams, a bevy of breezy jazz waltzes, calm electro funk, indie synth pop, industrial synth metal, and more bro country than could possibly fit in the back of a pickup truck!
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Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 21 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
Band-in-a-Box® 2026 for Windows is here and it is packed with major new features! There’s a new modern look, a GUI redesign to all areas of the program including toolbars, windows, workflow and more. There’s a Multi-view layout for organizing multiple windows. A standout addition is the powerful AI-Notes feature, which uses AI neural-net technology to transcribe polyphonic audio into MIDI—entire mixes or individual instruments—making it easy to study, view, and play parts from any song. And that’s just the beginning—there are over 60 new features in this exciting release.
Along with version 2026, we've released an incredible lineup of new content! There's 202 new RealTracks, brand-new RealStyles, MIDI SuperTracks, Instrumental Studies, “Songs with Vocals” Artist Performance Sets, Playable RealTracks Set 5, two new RealDrums Stems sets, XPro Styles PAK 10, Xtra Styles PAK 21, and much more!
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2026 Free Bonus PAK & 49-PAK Add-ons
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XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs Special Extended Until August 31st!
XPro & Xtra Styles PAKs Special Extended Until August 31st!
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Learn more about the Bonus PAKs!
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