This is a great video, and an awesome topic for discussion. I've always cherish vocal cadence (or vocal rhythm to the vocals) in music I love most. I know it isn't a particularly popular genre in the forums, but it's why I love hip hop and rap music. Rhythm in music in particular can make or break a song for me.
Interpol is one band I love that does this particularly well.
And a million others I can't immediately think of, but these 3 are in my heavily rotation at the moment so figured I'd share them.
And maybe that's part of the point. If you're hearing a commercially released song, it's because it got at least passing marks in vocal rhythm.. Listeners notice these things more when they are sub-optimal or lacking than when they are brilliant. Writers should have a more proactive view of this.
Those are really good, btw. I'd not heard any of them here in my cave. It's a bit hard to know how "right" the song in Russian was on all counts, but her vocal licks fell very nicely.
I'm with you on Rap and Hip Hop as it relates to this. At it's best, it's something to admire and even to emulate no matter the genre.
Glad you digged the tunes - the thing I like about hip hop and rap vocals, is it is vocals which depend entirely on the vocal cadence. I just find it an interesting concept. No other genre of music immediately comes to mind where rhythm plays such an important roll. Not for everybody, for sure, but neither is jazz or country.
It is cool to me that we all agree the cadence of a singer's vocals is important. And it's cool to me that hip hop music took that fact and cranked the meter to 100. The rhythms a lot of rappers portray in their vocal performance is very, very dense and complex. It's unfortunate a lot of big names don't represent the talent required, or show off the diversity that exists withinin the genre.
Rhythm is among my favourite qualities in music.
Originally Posted By: Tangmo
Originally Posted By: Deryk - PG Music
This is a great video, and an awesome topic for discussion. I've always cherish vocal cadence (or vocal rhythm to the vocals) in music I love most. I know it isn't a particularly popular genre in the forums, but it's why I love hip hop and rap music. Rhythm in music in particular can make or break a song for me.
Interpol is one band I love that does this particularly well.
And a million others I can't immediately think of, but these 3 are in my heavily rotation at the moment so figured I'd share them.
And maybe that's part of the point. If you're hearing a commercially released song, it's because it got at least passing marks in vocal rhythm.. Listeners notice these things more when they are sub-optimal or lacking than when they are brilliant. Writers should have a more proactive view of this.
Those are really good, btw. I'd not heard any of them here in my cave. It's a bit hard to know how "right" the song in Russian was on all counts, but her vocal licks fell very nicely.
I'm with you on Rap and Hip Hop as it relates to this. At it's best, it's something to admire and even to emulate no matter the genre.
Last edited by Deryk - PG Music; 05/30/1904:22 AM.
Another master of this technique is Jimmy Buffet. Once you listen for it, virtually everything they do showcases this talent: I Wish I Had a Pencil Thin Moustrache Another great example is the bawdy bar room ballad, "Why Don't We Get Drunk?" Also on You Tube. Then, of course, there is always this one: Its Five O'Clock Somewhere This would be an interesting tech topic to put to the engineers at PGM, wouldn't it?
Rhythm is so important! - It gives us so much information about the context of music.
There is an organ in Germany playing a piece loosely translated to "As slow as possible" that people gather to predict the next note... every 20 years or so. Quite fascinating really
Intonation or cadence in singing is the exact reproduction of sounds in pitch. Simply put, it is pure singing, without falseness, accurate hitting the notes. The correct cadence is the purity of the melody singing and the correct coordination of pitch hearing and voice. Accordingly, in songwriting, this skill is not so important. Not all composers can perform their compositions perfectly because they hone other skills. Of course, a Young Money artist Young Money artist does not need either the first or the second, only pathos and shared love. Although I understand that you are just talking about the importance of vocal cadence training.
Great song, great video, Floyd. Reminds me a bit of the version of "It's Five-O'Clock Somewhere" with and by Alan Jackson & Jimmy Buffet, filmed live in some bar in Florida. Similar feel to it. Jimmy Buffet is a master of siinging on the island beat, hey?
Glad you digged the tunes - the thing I like about hip hop and rap vocals, is it is vocals which depend entirely on the vocal cadence. I just find it an interesting concept. No other genre of music immediately comes to mind where rhythm plays such an important roll. Not for everybody, for sure, but neither is jazz or country.
It is cool to me that we all agree the cadence of a singer's vocals is important. And it's cool to me that hip hop music took that fact and cranked the meter to 100. The rhythms a lot of rappers portray in their vocal performance is very, very dense and complex. It's unfortunate a lot of big names don't represent the talent required, or show off the diversity that exists withinin the genre.
Rhythm is among my favourite qualities in music.
Hey Deryk, thanks for your inputs on hip hop and rap. I am just starting to become interested in these genres (coming from a background of rock, folk and country). What artists/albums/songs would you recommend as a decent introduction? I am familiar with Lose Yourself and love it! Also, hits like Old Town Road which I guess is kinda genre-bending! But I feel like I kinda missed out and wanna catch up a bit!
This is NOT about how great singers sing (and phrase a song). That's a different discussion.
It's about how a song is WRITTEN using what will be "vocal rhythm" to get a lyric across.
Really though, when you think about it, those two things are very closely related cousins.
Take the same song that was a hit for two different singers and they can phrase it differently. Take any of a bunch of Willie Nelson's songs as the example here.
Yep... it's very hard to get the phrasing and rhythmic feel of a lyric just from the written words. It's then up to the singer to interpret the song as they best see fit. If they have a demo, that makes life simpler.
Regarding the concept that the rhythm of the singing is an integral part of making the song what it is..... oh yes, absolutely.
You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.com Add nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both.
The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.
One of the fundamentals of this, IMHO, is vocal meter, and it's a fundamental part of poetry. Songwriters should probably first and foremost be poets is some form.
I think it's actually quite helpful to conscientiously think about poetic meters for songs and lyrics. On of the things I find a little disappointing is where the meter is mangled to make the chosen words fit, rather than spending more time finding a words form that both says what one wants and has the appropriate meter. Meter is remarkably powerful, I think.
FWIW, it took me a little while, but I have learned to like at least some Rap, though usually where it has a jazz-fusion aspect.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11 BIAB2025 Audiophile, a bunch of other software. Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts .
XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs Special Extended Until August 31st!
XPro & Xtra Styles PAKs Special Extended Until August 31st!
The XPro Styles PAKs and Xtra Styles PAKs special offers are now available until August 31st at 11:59pm PDT!
Ready to take your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 experience to the next level? Now’s the perfect time! Expand your style library with XPro and Xtra Styles PAKs—packed with a wide variety of genres to inspire your next musical creation.
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XPro Styles PAKs are styles that work with any version (Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition) of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). XPro Styles PAKS 1-9 includes 900 styles!
Xtra Styles PAKs are styles that work with the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box® 2025 (or higher). With over 3,500 styles (and 35 MIDI styles) included in Xtra Styles PAKs 1-20, the possibilities are endless!
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Note: XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
Get Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 19 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Listen to demos and order now! For Windows or for Mac.
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 19 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
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Mac 2025 Special Upgrade Offers Extended Until August 15th!
It's not too late to upgrade to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® and save! We've extended our special until August 15, 2025!
We've added many major new features to Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac®, including advanced AI tools like the amazing BB Stem Splitter and AI Lyrics Generator, as well as VST3 plugin support, and Equalize Temp. Plus, there’s a new one-stop MIDI Patches Picker with over 1,100 MIDI patches to choose from, all neatly categorized by GM numbers. The MultiPicker Library is enhanced with tabs for the SongPicker, MIDI Patch Picker, Chord Builder, AI Lyrics Generator, and Song Titles Browser, and the tabs are organized into logical groups. The Audiophile Edition is enhanced with FLAC files , which are 60% smaller than AIFF files while maintaining identical audio quality, and now ships on a fast 1TB SSD, and much more!
Check out all the new features in Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac® here:
Purchase your Band-in-a-Box® 2025 for Mac during our special to save up to 50% off your upgrade purchase and receive a FREE BONUS PAK of amazing new Add-ons. These include the 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK, Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana, Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes, MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano, Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7, Playable RealTracks Set 4, RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark, and more!
Upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and add 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and 20 RealStyles, FLAC Files for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks, Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster, MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster, Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8, and RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe.
Learn more about the Bonus PAKs!
We’ve expanded the Band-in-a-Box® RealTracks library with 202 incredible new RealTracks (in sets 449-467) across Jazz, Blues, Funk, World, Pop, Rock, Country, Americana, and Praise & Worship—featuring your most requested styles!
Jazz, Blues & World (Sets 449–455):
These RealTracks includes “Soul Jazz” with Neil Swainson (bass), Mike Clark (drums), Charles Treadway (organ), Miles Black (piano), and Brent Mason (guitar). Enjoy “Requested ’60s” jazz, classic acoustic blues with Colin Linden, and more of our popular 2-handed piano soloing. Plus, a RealTracks first—Tango with bandoneon, recorded in Argentina!
Rock & Pop (Sets 456–461):
This collection includes Disco, slap bass ‘70s/‘80s pop, modern and ‘80s metal with Andy Wood, and a unique “Songwriter Potpourri” featuring Chinese folk instruments, piano, banjo, and more. You’ll also find a muted electric guitar style (a RealTracks first!) and “Producer Layered Guitar” styles for slick "produced" sound.
Country, Americana & Praise (Sets 462–467):
We’ve added new RealTracks across bro country, Americana, praise & worship, vintage country, and songwriter piano. Highlights include Brent Mason (electric guitar), Eddie Bayers (drums), Doug Jernigan (pedal steel), John Jarvis (piano), Glen Duncan (banjo, mandolin & fiddle), Mike Harrison (electric bass) and more—offering everything from modern sounds to heartfelt Americana styles
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You’ll also get slick ’80s metal guitar from Andy Wood, modern metal with guitarist Nico Santora, bass player Nick Schendzielos, and drummer Aaron Stechauner, more praise & worship, indie-folk, modern/bro country with Brent Mason, and “Songwriter Americana” with Johnny Hiland.
Plus, enjoy user-requested styles like Soul Jazz RealDrums, fast Celtic Strathspey guitar, and Chill Hop piano & drums!
With your version 2025 for Mac Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, Audiophile Edition or PlusPAK purchase, we'll include a Bonus PAK full of great new Add-ons FREE! Or upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for only $49 to receive even more NEW Add-ons including 20 additional RealTracks!
These PAKs are loaded with additional add-ons to supercharge your Band-in-a-Box®!
This Free Bonus PAK includes:
The 2025 RealCombos Booster PAK:
-For Pro customers, this includes 33 new RealTracks and 65+ new RealStyles.
-For MegaPAK customers, this includes 29 new RealTracks and 45+ new RealStyles.
-For UltraPAK customers, this includes 20 new RealStyles.
Look Ma! More MIDI 13: Country & Americana
Instrumental Studies Set 22: 2-Hand Piano Soloing - Rhythm Changes
MIDI SuperTracks Set 44: Jazz Piano
Artist Performance Set 17: Songs with Vocals 7
Playable RealTracks Set 4
RealDrums Stems Set 7: Jazz with Mike Clark
SynthMaster Sounds and Styles (with audio demos)
128 GM MIDI Patch Audio Demos.
Looking for more great add-ons, then upgrade to the 2025 49-PAK for just $49 and you'll get:
20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums with 20 RealStyles,
FLAC Files (lossless audio files) for the 20 Bonus Unreleased RealTracks and RealDrums
Look Ma! More MIDI 14: SynthMaster,
Instrumental Studies Set 23: More '80s Hard Rock Soloing,
MIDI SuperTracks Set 45: More SynthMaster
Artist Performance Set 18: Songs with Vocals 8
RealDrums Stems Set 8: Pop, Funk & More with Jerry Roe
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Mac!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
New! XPro Styles PAK 9 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and higher for Mac!
We've just released XPro Styles PAK 9 for Mac & Windows Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) with 100 brand new RealStyles, plus 29 RealTracks/RealDrums!
We've been hard at it to bring you the latest and greatest in this 9th installment of our popular XPro Styles PAK series! Included are 75 styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres (25 styles each) that fans have come to expect, as well as 25 styles in this volume's wildcard genre: funk & R&B!
If you're itching to get a sneak peek at what's included in XPro Styles PAK 9, here is a small helping of what you can look forward to: Funky R&B Horns, Upbeat Celtic Rock, Jazz Fusion Salsa, Gentle Indie Folk, Cool '60s Soul, Funky '70s R&B, Smooth Jazz Hip Hop, Acoustic Rockabilly Swing, Funky Reggae Dub, Dreamy Retro Latin Jazz, Retro Soul-Rock Fusion, and much more!
Special Pricing! Until July 31, 2024, all the XPro Styles PAKs 1 - 9 are on sale for only $29 ea (Reg. $49 ea), or get them all in the XPro Styles PAK Bundle for only $149 (reg. $299)! Order now!
XPro Styles PAKs require Band-in-a-Box® 2025 or higher and are compatible with ANY package, including the Pro, MegaPAK, UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, and Audiophile Edition.
New! Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box 2025 and Higher for Windows!
Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Windows & Mac Band-in-a-Box version 2025 (and higher) is here with 200 brand new RealStyles!
We're excited to bring you our latest and greatest in the all new Xtra Styles PAK 20 for Band-in-a-Box! This fresh installment is packed with 200 all-new styles spanning the rock & pop, jazz, and country genres you've come to expect, as well as the exciting inclusion of electronic styles!
In this PAK you’ll discover: Minimalist Modern Funk, New Wave Synth Pop, Hard Bop Latin Groove, Gospel Country Shuffle, Cinematic Synthwave, '60s Motown, Funky Lo-Fi Bossa, Heavy 1980s Metal, Soft Muted 12-8 Folk, J-Pop Jazz Fusion, and many more!
All the Xtra Styles PAKs 1 - 20 are on special for only $29 each (reg $49), or get all 209 PAKs for $199 (reg $399)! Order now!
Note: The Xtra Styles require the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition of Band-in-a-Box®. (Xtra Styles PAK 20 requires the 2025 or higher UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition. They will not work with the Pro or MegaPAK version because they need the RealTracks from the UltraPAK, UltraPAK+, or Audiophile Edition.
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