Hi. The notation which is provided on some (most, now) RealTracks is for educational purposes only. It is not tied to the sound, which is pre-recorded audio snippets.
If you want something that editing makes a difference, you need to work with MIDI.
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It seems to me that probably RealCharts should be locked down for editing, as this question comes up quite a bit. BIAB knows there is an underlying RealTrack, and so should not allow the RealChart to be edited (maybe with some sort of message indicating why).
Maybe an item for the wishlist.
John
Laptop-HP Omen I7 Win11Pro 32GB 12TB SSD Desktop-ASUS-I7 Win10Pro 32GB 12TB SATA
As mentioned by the others, the notation is actually transcribed from the RealTracks, so that the user can review only. Generating a RealTrack simply replaces the notation, and your edits are lost.
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
It seems to me that probably RealCharts should be locked down for editing, as this question comes up quite a bit. BIAB knows there is an underlying RealTrack, and so should not allow the RealChart to be edited (maybe with some sort of message indicating why).
Maybe an item for the wishlist.
John, you’re absolutely right. So simple.
I just put your suggestion in the Wishlist.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
You can try the RealChart on a virtual instrument that way you can edit it, I think most of the piano RealCharts are the midi from the Yamaha acoustic/midi piano so should work good on a virtual instrument. And for wishing some day: RealChart Midi Edit Changes RealTrack Audio
You can try the RealChart on a virtual instrument that way you can edit it, I think most of the piano RealCharts are the midi from the Yamaha acoustic/midi piano so should work good on a virtual instrument. And for wishing some day: RealChart Midi Edit Changes RealTrack Audio
I agree with Pipeline.
I use MIDI from the piano Realtracks and then run it through EZ Keys... it's excellent. I sometimes modify some of the pedal on/off commands -- that's personal taste, though.
I’ve used Melodyne to edit one or two notes in a track. Often changing a note still sounds out of place. I usually turn the note volume down so it is not so noticeable. I think one has to be really up on using Melodyne.
What I have found much easier is to use Melodyne to convert the RealTrack to MIDI but even then that can get complicated and I am often disappointed with the results.
If it is a backing part I often regenerate a heap times saving to wav each time then slice and dice in Reaper. I find this way I usually get something close to what I’m looking for. Sometimes I might even change the RealTrack for something close then mix and match.
I’m lucky in that time is not an issue to me and I enjoy playing around with stuff.
Tony
Last edited by Teunis; 06/28/1911:59 PM.
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If Biab itself can change the notes of RealTracks according to the set key and the chords being played, so why then it cannot offer changing the notes by changing the notes in the notation?
The reason why 90% or more of what I do in BiaB is MIDI is because it is extremely editable.
There is a trade-off between being better tone or the ability to edit the music.
Do you want the music to sound better or the music to be better?
I have a few good MIDI synth modules, so the tone is 90-99% as good as the 'real thing', depending on the instrument.
For me, the ability to export the excellent output of BiaB as a MIDI file, import it into a MIDI sequencer or DAW, and then play with it (edit) to my heart's content to try to make it even better is what I like to do.
Simple edits like changing a guitar sound from a clean to a muted, or changing a piano to a clav, and so on can make a big difference. Changing the inversion of a chord is simple, putting the note on top that I want on top can make a big difference. Removing a drum roll or moving it around to a more appropriate measure is easy too. Putting song-specific figures or licks isn't that difficult if you have a MIDI controller.
After the easy edits, there are a lot of more extensive edits you can do with the continuous controllers (Complete list of Continuous Controllers) tempo, intonation and a million other things.
All of these edits cannot be done with Audio.
But there is more than one right way to make music. I like to play with it, put my own creativity into it, and learn more about what makes music tick while I'm doing it. But that is just my way, and may not be right for the next musician.
I totally go with u, except regarding solos. There, to be able to get the same level of authenticity with MIDI, one has to invest time to learn to play the VST (e.g. pedal guitar), invest time to set up and learn to use expression and sustain pedals, MIDI faders to control different expressions, MPE-controllers (ROLI Seaboard/Osmose Expressive-E/Linnstrument, LEAP motion controller, TEControl breath-controller, MIDI-ring controller etc.) And of course, one needs to have instrumental skills and knowledge of music theory or the HW/SW to substite for the lack of it (e.g. DAWs scale & chord aids, NI Komplete keyboard's Lightguide)
So therefore, at least with regards to solos, there is the temptation to try to use the Realtrack solo but to tweak it here and there, esp. if MultiRiff feature alone does not do the trick.
One just can't get the same feeling from MIDI unless one is willing to use expensive VSTs (like Audio Modelling SWAM VSTs, https://audiomodeling.com/) and going the extra miles to add expressions.
Trying to edit notes on a Realtrack, when a change the notes it doesn't change in playback still the same pitch.
Not sure what I'm missing...
Thanks
I tried something interesting (at least to me).
If you copy the MIDI data only, of a RealTrack (I used RealTrack 2196 for this), using "Copy Special/Copy/Move Tracks", to another track... You can assign a MIDI Instrument or a Playable Realtrack to that track, and make edits (using Piano Roll). Those changed do stick.
Thunderthud, as I mentioned above, the notation in many of the RealTracks is there for educational purposes only. It does not contain the nuances of playing that would make it sound like an actual musician. The piano tracks are good, but others are transcribed. I did some of the earliest ones.
BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Slate VSX, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.
I do understand. But after playing back my song with Electric piano that I'd mentioned, and an acoustic MIDI piano on the duplicated track, the tracks had the effect of sounding thickened w So, maybe this could be useful to someone.
The piano rolls on the two tracks looked identical.
I think most of the RealCharts for piano are the actual midi from the Yamaha acoustic/digital piano.
Agreed. I remember reading that it was a Disklavier.
BIAB & RB2026 Win.(Audiophile), Windows 10 Pro & Windows 11, Cakewalk Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Session Keys Grand S & Electric R, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M, Pioneer Active Monitors.
I use Melodyne for editing Real Track audio quite often, especially single note lines such Bass, vocal or Horn lines, it also works on polyphonic phrases with mixed results... I believe every producer should have Melodyne in their toolbox.
LOL I saw AudioTrack, ah a new user, I thought that's the other part of VideoTrack.
Pretty close. You're actually right on the money there PL
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I use Melodyne for editing Real Track audio quite often, especially single note lines such Bass, vocal or Horn lines, it also works on polyphonic phrases with mixed results... I believe every producer should have Melodyne in their toolbox.
I agree.
I also have used Melodyne to modify a RT.
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If Biab itself can change the notes of RealTracks according to the set key and the chords being played, so why then it cannot offer changing the notes by changing the notes in the notation?
Because these are pre recorded snips of music not individually generated notes.
My wife asked if I had seen the dog bowl. I told her I didn't even know he could.
If Biab itself can change the notes of RealTracks according to the set key and the chords being played, so why then it cannot offer changing the notes by changing the notes in the notation?
Because these are pre recorded snips of music not individually generated notes.
So u mean that Biab can transpose and time-stretch those snips but not their individual notes? Is yes, so then how comes the very same thing is possible with the new playable realtracks?
The Playable RealTracks use sampled notes from the original instrument. So it loads the soundfont player vst into the track and plays midi notes where the RealTrack instrument is muted.
this whole method is fiddly and impractical. In fact, useless. I am not trying to fix 'one note', but one note for a chord that is being played dozens of times. What a waste of time. I'll just kill the whole track
this whole method is fiddly and impractical. In fact, useless. I am not trying to fix 'one note', but one note for a chord that is being played dozens of times. What a waste of time. I'll just kill the whole track
It is and that's why so many people still use MIDI and plug-ins. RTs give a quick and very good cut, but one's rather restricted in what one can do with them. MIDI allows much more control and tuning. I think the tricky bit is getting the right balance between those two enemies.
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<...snip...> It is and that's why so many people still use MIDI and plug-ins. RTs give a quick and very good cut, but one's rather restricted in what one can do with them. MIDI allows much more control and tuning<...>
I mostly use MIDI and a hardware sound module instead of plug-ins.
Why hardware? 1) There is no noticeable latency (I think the average is about 5ms, or the time it takes sound to travel 6 feet). 2) Hardware synths store their sounds in ROM. Soft synths have to create the sound for each and every note as they are playing, which is why the latency). But to keep the latency shorter, they cut corners. Stored in ROM, the sound can be both more realistic and more nuanced. But of course, that depends on the synth manufacturer.
But whether you use soft or hardware synths, MIDI is thousands of times more editable than recorded audio.
I admit, the Real Tracks sound great. But, IMO, with a good synth, the sounds can be 95% as good as the RT, and with the increased editing ability of MIDI, the final song can be much, much better.
I was thinking of on-PC production, where the best results come with quite some tinkering/tuning.
For live playing, I send the MIDI to my Kawai or an SD1000, for that ~0 latency.
Jazz relative beginner, starting at a much older age than was helpful. AVL:MXE Linux; Windows 11 BIAB2026 Audiophile, a bunch of other software. Kawai MP6, Ui24R, Focusrite Saffire Pro40 and Scarletts .
MIDI definitely has more editing possibilities. I'm a MIDIot fossil from WAY back...
But to recap previous posts, plus a couple of additional thoughts...
Melodyne Studio can edit individual notes in RealTracks. Not the same as MIDI, but tasks like changing chord lead voicing or otherwise fixing a note in a chord are super easy and transparent.
If you find a RealTrack you want to edit, you can TRY editable RealTracks, OR you can move the BiaB MIDI chart to a MIDI editor and do whatever you want with it. Works best with keyboards in my experience.
RealTrack acoustic pianos often sound "blurry" to me, probably due to (tiny) audio stretching artifacts. Definitely try the MIDI chart tip above for those if you're not happy.
BiaB MIDI guitars NEVER sound ok to me, especially strummed acoustics. There are some other programs that do these better than BiaB. But unless you have one of those, stay away from BiaB MIDI guitars. (That's not controversial, is it?)
DC Ron BiaB Audiophile Presonus Studio One ASUS I9-12900K DAW, 32 GB RAM Presonus Faderport 16 Too many guitars (is that a thing?)
Two newer midi possible midi solutions available in Band-in-a-Box are MidiSuperTracks and Microcholds.
There is a video Peter Gannon made sometime in the 2010's era where he demonstrates replacing a RealTrack for a bar or two with midi and a virtual instrument. It should be pretty easy to do by creating the virtual instrument on an empty track then using bar settings to mute the RealTrack and play the virtual instrument.
BiaB MIDI guitars NEVER sound ok to me, especially strummed acoustics.<...>
That depends on your synthesizer. MIDI has no sound, but triggers sounds in your synth. Some synths have better guitar sounds than others.
It also depends on the musician. Is the chord in a guitar-like inversion. Since BiaB choose the inversion to play, that can be fixed after exporting. Are the notes all played at the same time or in a strum pattern?
Also, there is something called "Home instrument bias". To a guitar player, the guitar sounds might never sound right, but for a casual listener or a horn player, those guitar parts might be just fine.
Playable RealTracks functionally convert a RealTrack into the equivalent of an Artist Performance File which is a form of a UserTrack to the BIAB program.
To users that know the nuances of editing midi, this mix of audio and midi creates an audio track made from a RealTrack that's been manipulated into a audio file indistinguishable from a live performance recording. Particularly when placed within a song mix. Unique as if one had played the piece.
I created a short piece using a mandolin that did not have RealChart and inserted the midi data from the guitar to have the two instruments play the same midi data.
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