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Using BIAB as a backing track for out of tune piano #545626 07/15/19 04:27 PM Beginners Forum
Joined: May 2013 Posts: 11 M Madsy18 OP Newbie
OP Madsy18 Newbie M Joined: May 2013 Posts: 11	I want to use BIAB as a backing track for my piano. However the the piano is not correctly tuned to C or even a semi tone below or above. It is somewhere between C and b flat. Is it possible to transpose a song in BIAB to a frequency rather than a real key? I know I can transpose by a semitone. But the piano is still out of tune to the new key. Obviously I could get the whole piano re tuned. But that is a last resort (cost). Thanks in advance

Re: Using BIAB as a backing track for out of tune piano Madsy18 #545641 07/15/19 09:49 PM Beginners Forum
Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 19,831 Australia Noel96 Veteran
Noel96 Veteran Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 19,831 Australia	Hi Madsy, Firstly, BIAB does have MIDI tuning. If your soundcard supports this, and you are using a MIDI style (as opposed to a style containing Realtracks), it should be able to be tuned. The option is found under "Options \| GM Settings". If you use Realtracks, it's still possible to tune. I just tried the following approach and it worked for me. 1. I downloaded a free pitch shifting VST from the below URL. It's called PitchProof and comes in 32-bit and 64-bit dll. https://aegeanmusic.com/pitchproof-specs 2. I tried it with BIAB 64-bit. Before doing any thing else, I needed to put the 64-bit pitchproof .dll file in my VST folder (using copy and paste). 3. Next I loaded the song I wanted to work on. 4. Then I opened the MIDI/VST-DXi dialogue window (#1 on the image below). 5. I selected "Combo" (this affects all output) -- #2 on image. 6. Using the dropdown listbox that I've number #3, I clicked on "Add VST plugin" -- this is at the bottom of the list. NOTE: It's important not to use the top dropdown list box because this is usually reserved for a software synthesiser. 7. I navigated to where I'd put the PitchProof dll and selected it. 8. I then set the blend (#4) to Wet so that only the processed signal could be heard. 9. I set the "Pitch" to zero (#6) 10. I set the key to that of my song (#7) -- this is probably not needed. 11. I then tuned the output using the dial labelled #5. This worked fine for me and sounded good. Hope this helps, Noel my latest re-mix using multiband compression : Just A Little After Midnight Attached Files (Click to download or enlarge) (Only available when you are logged in) pitch shift tuning VST - pitchproof.jpg (284.93 KB, 178 downloads) MY SONGS... Audiophile BIAB 2025 audios on Soundcloud

Re: Using BIAB as a backing track for out of tune piano Noel96 #545697 07/16/19 10:20 AM Beginners Forum
Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 20,313 Melbourne, Australia AudioTrack Veteran
AudioTrack Veteran Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 20,313 Melbourne, Australia	Noel, Your Pitch Shift information is a great tutorial in fact, and one that could do well in the tips and tricks section also? Trev BIAB & RB2025 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones

Re: Using BIAB as a backing track for out of tune piano AudioTrack #545702 07/16/19 10:34 AM Beginners Forum
Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 19,831 Australia Noel96 Veteran
Noel96 Veteran Joined: Oct 2008 Posts: 19,831 Australia	Hi Trev, Good to see you I'll copy it across there a bit later today. All the best, Noel MY SONGS... Audiophile BIAB 2025 audios on Soundcloud

Re: Using BIAB as a backing track for out of tune piano Madsy18 #545703 07/16/19 10:56 AM Beginners Forum
Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 27,033 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY Matt Finley Veteran
Matt Finley Veteran Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 27,033 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY	This sounds like a very useful utility. I often have audio files out of concert pitch and I take them into an audio editor to pitch shift. But this looks like it might do the job in real time. BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.

Re: Using BIAB as a backing track for out of tune piano Madsy18 #545725 07/16/19 06:52 PM Beginners Forum
Joined: May 2013 Posts: 11 M Madsy18 OP Newbie
OP Madsy18 Newbie M Joined: May 2013 Posts: 11	Thanks Noel96. I shall give it a try Also I had not thought about using an Audio Editor. I shall also try that.

Re: Using BIAB as a backing track for out of tune piano Madsy18 #545743 07/17/19 03:02 AM Beginners Forum
Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 27,033 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY Matt Finley Veteran
Matt Finley Veteran Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 27,033 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY	Yes, I use Adobe Audition with a stereo or mono file. You can change pitch by any amount up to two hundred cents (a cent is one one-hundredth of the difference between two adjacent half-steps) with few artifacts. BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.

Re: Using BIAB as a backing track for out of tune piano Madsy18 #545747 07/17/19 03:11 AM Beginners Forum
Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 10,340 Middlesex, NC Guitarhacker Veteran
Guitarhacker Veteran Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 10,340 Middlesex, NC	I'll assume that the piano is a real wood and strings kind of piano.... because any midi piano is tune-able. The real wood and strings kind are harder to tune and certainly not something you do easily with a push of a button or two like a midi keyboard can do. You certainly want to be able to work from standard concert pitch... A-440 as most people these days have that as their standard. Nothing is as much of a pain in the butt as getting a file from someone and finding it's not tuned to A-440. I'm not sure if BB can do this but I know for a fact that Melodyne Editor can. You do, however, need to have the polyphonic version. Many of the pitch editors that are free or inexpensive tend to be monophonic and work well for instruments that can only play a single note at a time and of course, voices. Even ME is a bit sketchy with some of the poly stuff I have tried to use it for. If you're interested in doing recording for more than a one time thing, I would suggest that you look into purchasing a halfway decent midi keyboard. They can be had brand new for a couple hundred dollars and you can find them used for much less. Check the yard sales in your area. If it's piano you want, get one that has weighted keys for the "piano feel" they give. Also be sure it has touch sensitive keys. Just my 2 cents on this topic Last edited by Guitarhacker; 07/17/19 03:12 AM. You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.com Add nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.

Re: Using BIAB as a backing track for out of tune piano Madsy18 #545754 07/17/19 04:41 AM Beginners Forum
Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 23,216 Hamlin NY MarioD Veteran
MarioD Veteran Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 23,216 Hamlin NY	Hi Madsy18, Here is a potential free workaround. Download the free Audacity and all the available effects. Load a single piano note into Audacity and use the effect Pitch Scaler to change the pitch. (I would use an inexpensive guitar tuner to bring the pitch in tune, in other words to A-440) Write down the Pitch Scaler number. Now bring in your piano track and convert it to A-440 using the Pitch Scaler and your number. Yes this works with polyphonic tracks. You may have to increase the volume but the tempo stays the same. Note that this method is not as good as Melodyne Editor. But if you piano is just a little off A-440 it just might work. Plus the price is right, especially if it does work. good luck Whenever I get something stuck in the back of my throat, I dislodge it by drinking a beer. It's called the Heineken Maneuver. 64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware

Re: Using BIAB as a backing track for out of tune piano Madsy18 #545811 07/17/19 01:49 PM Beginners Forum
Joined: May 2000 Posts: 22,165 Mi., USA rharv Veteran
rharv Veteran Joined: May 2000 Posts: 22,165 Mi., USA	When a real (wood&string) piano goes out of tune, it usually goes out of tune with itself also. In other words, tuning the recording to make middle C in tune will move other recorded notes just as much, but they may still be off from each other. Actually pretty likely. It's very rare a piano goes out of tune on every note in even amounts. Just something to consider in your decision. If it's out of tune with itself that's pretty hard to correct with all the overtones and such that exist on a real piano recording. I do not work here, but the benefits are still awesome Make your sound your own!

Re: Using BIAB as a backing track for out of tune piano rharv #545964 07/19/19 02:56 AM Beginners Forum
Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 10,340 Middlesex, NC Guitarhacker Veteran
Guitarhacker Veteran Joined: Apr 2009 Posts: 10,340 Middlesex, NC	Originally Posted By: rharv When a real (wood&string) piano goes out of tune, it usually goes out of tune with itself also. In other words, tuning the recording to make middle C in tune will move other recorded notes just as much, but they may still be off from each other. Actually pretty likely. It's very rare a piano goes out of tune on every note in even amounts. Just something to consider in your decision. If it's out of tune with itself that's pretty hard to correct with all the overtones and such that exist on a real piano recording. Piano's are not single strings for a note. Some of the low ones are, but as you move up you are playing 3 strings for each note struck. That's what gives a real piano it's timber and tone quality. You run into tuning problems, especially when the 3 strings per note are out of tune with each other. Just think back to the sound you hear from the old western saloon pianos. (or the ones in the recreation rooms in many rest homes) You can find my music at: www.herbhartley.com Add nothing that adds nothing to the music. You can make excuses or you can make progress but not both. The magic you are looking for is in the work you are avoiding.

Re: Using BIAB as a backing track for out of tune piano Madsy18 #545995 07/19/19 10:05 AM Beginners Forum
Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 27,033 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY Matt Finley Veteran
Matt Finley Veteran Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 27,033 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY	Yep. I still have my tuning hammers and felts for fixing pianos on the fly. A lost art, thankfully. BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.

Re: Using BIAB as a backing track for out of tune piano Matt Finley #546038 07/19/19 10:40 PM Beginners Forum
Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 20,313 Melbourne, Australia AudioTrack Veteran
AudioTrack Veteran Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 20,313 Melbourne, Australia	Originally Posted By: Matt Finley Yep. I still have my tuning hammers and felts for fixing pianos on the fly. A lost art, thankfully. Matt, you're thankful that it's a lost art, or you're thankful that you've still got your tuning hammers and felts? Or you're thankful that you don't need them anymore? My Yamaha C5 certainly needs a little TLC (only every so often, though). Attached Files (Click to download or enlarge) (Only available when you are logged in) 20190301_183824.jpg (111.83 KB, 73 downloads) BIAB & RB2025 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones

Re: Using BIAB as a backing track for out of tune piano Madsy18 #546084 07/20/19 07:11 AM Beginners Forum
Joined: Jun 2005 Posts: 7,693 Redondo Beach, Ca. jazzmammal Veteran
jazzmammal Veteran Joined: Jun 2005 Posts: 7,693 Redondo Beach, Ca.	Nice axe! You have it on a hardwood floor in a glass corner, it must sound really loud. Mine is in a similar location and i put a rug underneath it to dampen it. If i play to energetically it get very loud. I also learned to tune it myself, it's never simply evenly out of tune. I doubt the OP's idea will work. Bob Biab/RB latest build, Win 11 Pro, Ryzen 5 5600 G, 512 Gig SSD, 16 Gigs Ram, Steinberg UR22 MkII, Roland Sonic Cell, Kurzweil PC3, Hammond SK1, Korg PA3XPro, Garritan JABB, Hypercanvas, Sampletank 3, more.

Re: Using BIAB as a backing track for out of tune piano Madsy18 #546158 07/20/19 05:41 PM Beginners Forum
Joined: May 2013 Posts: 11 M Madsy18 OP Newbie
OP Madsy18 Newbie M Joined: May 2013 Posts: 11	Thanks everyone. The piano is wood & string. When purchased it was quite a bit off. So we got a piano tuner in. However he chose to "clean up the tuning" rather than tune it accurately. There was no pressure on him to do anything else. Just to make it sound OK. So it was a cheap tune as we did not know how much it would be used if at all. Now that we have progressed to BIAB for backing tracks we are paying the price. A proper tune will cost a bunch and so at the moment something to avoid if we can tune the backing tracks to match the piano. You have given us plenty of things to try. We have Audacity and that seems to do the job so far. So thanks to all.

Re: Using BIAB as a backing track for out of tune piano Madsy18 #546167 07/20/19 10:57 PM Beginners Forum
Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 20,313 Melbourne, Australia AudioTrack Veteran
AudioTrack Veteran Joined: Jun 2012 Posts: 20,313 Melbourne, Australia	Madsy, you might consider a MIDI piano keyboard instead of investing further in the timber frame piano. There are some reasonable units available, with touch action (important for a piano), and it will be on concert pitch. BIAB & RB2025 Win.(Audiophile), Sonar Platinum, Cakewalk by Bandlab, Izotope Prod.Bundle, Roland RD-1000, Synthogy Ivory, Kontakt, Focusrite 18i20, KetronSD2, NS40M Monitors, Pioneer Active Monitors, AKG K271 Studio H'phones

Re: Using BIAB as a backing track for out of tune piano Madsy18 #546179 07/21/19 02:24 AM Beginners Forum
Joined: Dec 2015 Posts: 1,114 Cornwall UK Mike Head Expert
Mike Head Expert Joined: Dec 2015 Posts: 1,114 Cornwall UK	Hi Madsy It sounds as if your Piano tuner, tuned it to itself (not uncommon for home use), so with that in mind proving it has held that tune you may well get away with shifting your BIAB to match. Also as you say that Audacity seems to be able to do that it’s a fairly good sign that the piano is still in tune with its self, even if not in concert pitch. Have fun Mike Last edited by Mike Head; 07/21/19 02:26 AM. BIAB2021 UltraPlus,AsusN55S1Tbssd, W10/64,Akai EIEpro Yamaha CVP405,SquireStrat, CoolsoftVMidSynth Novatation Impulse61 Ctr kbd, Cwalk blab Kontakt http://mikesmusic.byethost16.com/

Re: Using BIAB as a backing track for out of tune piano Madsy18 #546182 07/21/19 03:14 AM Beginners Forum
Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 27,033 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY Matt Finley Veteran
Matt Finley Veteran Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 27,033 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY	Or, as your piano has proven it can hold a pitch, have it tuned now to concert pitch. BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.

Re: Using BIAB as a backing track for out of tune piano Matt Finley #546188 07/21/19 04:02 AM Beginners Forum
Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 23,216 Hamlin NY MarioD Veteran
MarioD Veteran Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 23,216 Hamlin NY	We were told be a professional piano tuner that my wife's piano is so old that it really shouldn't be tuned to concert pitch. There would be to much string tension on the old wood. Thus it is tuned to A 432Hz. If you know what Hz your piano is tuned to them maybe you can adjust your software to the same. Whenever I get something stuck in the back of my throat, I dislodge it by drinking a beer. It's called the Heineken Maneuver. 64 bit Win 10 Pro, the latest BiaB/RB, Roland Octa-Capture audio interface, a ton of software/hardware

Re: Using BIAB as a backing track for out of tune piano Madsy18 #546190 07/21/19 04:56 AM Beginners Forum
Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 27,033 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY Matt Finley Veteran
Matt Finley Veteran Joined: Jul 2000 Posts: 27,033 Hudson Valley & Lake George NY	Yes, the church that hires me to arrange and direct holiday services has an 1866 Steinway grand. The day after it’s tuned, it reverts back down a few cents. Right now we have it at 432. It sounds terrific and stays there. We just can’t play it along with the tracker organ. That’s at 441 and two-thirds (go figure). A whole new meaning to ‘chorus’. BIAB 2025 Win Audiophile. Software: Studio One 7 Pro, Swam horns, Acoustica-7, Notion 6, Song Master Pro, Win 11 Home. Hardware: Intel i9, 32 Gb; Roland Integra-7, Presonus 192 & Faderport 8, Royer 121, Adam Sub8 & Neumann 120 monitors.

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